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Are they really due to Western foreign policies?
Posted: 19 July 2017 10:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 226 ]
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Write4U - 19 July 2017 06:35 PM

3000 years of middle-eastern religious wars, and the 250 year old USA is the culprit. How convenient.

completely ignore US Imperialism. How convenient.

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Posted: 19 July 2017 11:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 227 ]
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Adamski - 10 July 2017 02:46 PM
LoisL - 10 July 2017 11:21 AM
Adamski - 10 July 2017 02:18 AM
webplodder - 10 July 2017 02:05 AM
Adamski - 10 July 2017 01:09 AM
webplodder - 10 July 2017 12:48 AM
Adamski - 10 July 2017 12:43 AM
webplodder - 10 July 2017 12:11 AM
LoisL - 09 July 2017 09:43 AM
webplodder - 08 July 2017 03:47 AM
Adamski - 07 July 2017 02:18 PM
webplodder - 07 July 2017 02:09 AM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 17 September 2016 05:30 AM

There is a perception, including guilty feeling, in the USA/West that our foreign policies are to be blamed for the acts of hatred, fanaticism and terrorism that are being committed in the world by people who identify themselves as Muslims. While there are some factual basis for this perception, there are a lot more facts in the world that show that the vices in question are not just against the West, nor are the Western foreign policies the primary reasons for them.

Here is a latest example: Saudi Arabia declares all atheists are terrorists in new law to crack down on political dissidents: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-declares-all-atheists-are-terrorists-in-new-law-to-crack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html

I have mentioned several other examples in the CFI forums recently: Here are three of them:  a) In 1971 there was a genocide committed by Pakistani military and their local Muslim collaborators in East Bengal (Bangladesh). Most of the murder and rape victims (of the somewhat exaggeratedly claimed 3 million and 200,000, respectively, by the government of Bangladesh) were Hindus, who were targeted indiscriminately for just being Hindus. Most of those victims were absolutely innocent people who did not even shout a slogan against Pakistan, let alone fighting for anything; they just wanted to live in their ancestral homeland of centuries peacefully with no hatred against any kind of people. b) In 2012, 50 Buddhist homes and 12 Buddhist temples were burned by Muslim mobs in Bangladesh just because one Buddhist youth’s Facebook page was tagged by someone with a picture of the Koran with a shoe on it. c) In 2013, over a 100 Christian homes were burned by Pakistani Muslim mobs just because a 14 year old girl of that community was accused of burning a page of the Koran.

While I do not have much time for this forum, on this thread I plan to add more news items, where human dignity and rights are trampled by Islamic fanaticism, as they emerge.

Readers/participants, please be advised that it is not about hating Muslims; it is about seeking human dignity and rights for all kinds of people, including those that call themselves Muslims and perpetrate and accept acts of injustice and hatred due to their religious brainwash.

I think much has been made of western foreign policy and the link to terrorism, but while foreign policy is a factor you have to view it in the context of extremist attitudes towards western ways of life and their intolerance of western liberalism. What caused the 9/11 attack on the twin towers? Was it due to western foreign policy? I don’t think so because this was before the Iraq or Afghanistan invasions so there have to be other reasons. The fact that the west did nothing in Syria after the ‘Arab Spring’ protests and Assad’s suppression of such protests precipitated the involvement of ISIS, something that was due to a lack of action by the west, not the opposite. So you cannot blame Muslim extremism solely on western foreign policy and it is often used as an excuse for atrocities who’s dynamics lie elsewhere.

Isis was born from USA warmongering in the Middle East. Right?

As far as I know ISIS arose from the lack of western support for the oppressed Assad dissenters. They felt betrayed by the west and various factions took matters into their own hands and became Muslim extremists. Blame Assad, not the west, this started out as an internal struggle.

That’s the stated excuse, yes. There is a lot more to it than the lack of support from the West. To focus on lack of supprt from the West is to lose sight of all the other crucial factors that are involved. The formation of Isis was inevitable considering the actual situation in the area. It would have happened with or without “support” from the West.

But you can’t have it both ways. You seem to blaming everything on western intervention, even when they do not actually intervene!

Give me an example

ISIS arose in the absence of any western intervention in Syria. It is only now that the west + Russia + Assad is fighting them after the event. ISIS arose as the result of a re-emergence of Islam fundamentalism to fight everyone else who did not subscribe to their philosophy, not just the west.

Isis grew out of the ruins of Iraq and Libya - a direct consequence of US imperialism. Thanks America.  Isis was/is well supported by USA financially and with weapons for regime change in Syria. It was only when they turned back into Iraq for the creation of their caliphate were they seen as a problem. ISIS, al-Qaeda, al-Nusra (ISIS in Syria) and like-minded groups are US creations.

They’re used as foot soldiers to advance its imperium – responsible for aiding Washington rape and destroy one country after another.

But why was ISIS not a factor in Syria before the Arab Spring and the suppression by Assad of revolutionaries? It was the frustration of those suffering under the government of Assad that triggered the emergence of ISIS, at least on a large scale. In fact, here in the UK, many young resident Muslims decided to go and fight for what they saw as the fundamental principles of Islam which were being suppressed by Assad’s regime. Had the west intervened at the time it is not clear whether ISIS would have risen to as much prominence as they did. You cannot keep blaming everything on western intervention because there have always existed discontents between the various factions in the Middle East which are easily inflamed. You keep mentioning Washing but do not say anything about Assad. You’re being a bit simplistic here.

USA saw the Arab spring in Syria as an opportunity for regime change thereby hijacking the revolution. Here from the world socialist website

“The US military interventions in Iraq and Syria are not aimed at “annihilating” ISIS, itself the product of the 2003 US invasion and occupation of Iraq, followed by Washington’s utilization of Islamist fighters as proxy ground forces in the regime-change wars in both Libya and Syria. While Raqqa has been surrounded by US-backed forces from the north, east and west, an escape route for ISIS fighters has been opened up to the southeast in order to funnel them into the province of Deir al-Zour, so they can fight the Syrian army there. Similarly, large numbers of ISIS fighters were allowed to flee Mosul, crossing the border into Syria for the same purpose.

Washington’s strategic objectives in Iraq and Syria are not those of “fighting terrorism,” but rather consolidating US hegemony over the oil-rich Middle East and preparing for war against the principal obstacles to this objective, Iran and Russia. For US imperialism, undisputed control over both the Persian Gulf and Central Asia would provide the means to cut off energy supplies to its global rival, China.”

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/06/15/pers-j15.html

You are an expert at magnifying one side of an issue and ignoring all the rest. You are a typical empty-headed ideologue.

You can’t make a coherent counter argument

Neither can you.

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Posted: 19 July 2017 11:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 228 ]
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LoisL - 19 July 2017 11:04 PM
Adamski - 10 July 2017 02:46 PM
LoisL - 10 July 2017 11:21 AM
Adamski - 10 July 2017 02:18 AM
webplodder - 10 July 2017 02:05 AM
Adamski - 10 July 2017 01:09 AM
webplodder - 10 July 2017 12:48 AM
Adamski - 10 July 2017 12:43 AM
webplodder - 10 July 2017 12:11 AM
LoisL - 09 July 2017 09:43 AM
webplodder - 08 July 2017 03:47 AM
Adamski - 07 July 2017 02:18 PM
webplodder - 07 July 2017 02:09 AM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 17 September 2016 05:30 AM

There is a perception, including guilty feeling, in the USA/West that our foreign policies are to be blamed for the acts of hatred, fanaticism and terrorism that are being committed in the world by people who identify themselves as Muslims. While there are some factual basis for this perception, there are a lot more facts in the world that show that the vices in question are not just against the West, nor are the Western foreign policies the primary reasons for them.

Here is a latest example: Saudi Arabia declares all atheists are terrorists in new law to crack down on political dissidents: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-declares-all-atheists-are-terrorists-in-new-law-to-crack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html

I have mentioned several other examples in the CFI forums recently: Here are three of them:  a) In 1971 there was a genocide committed by Pakistani military and their local Muslim collaborators in East Bengal (Bangladesh). Most of the murder and rape victims (of the somewhat exaggeratedly claimed 3 million and 200,000, respectively, by the government of Bangladesh) were Hindus, who were targeted indiscriminately for just being Hindus. Most of those victims were absolutely innocent people who did not even shout a slogan against Pakistan, let alone fighting for anything; they just wanted to live in their ancestral homeland of centuries peacefully with no hatred against any kind of people. b) In 2012, 50 Buddhist homes and 12 Buddhist temples were burned by Muslim mobs in Bangladesh just because one Buddhist youth’s Facebook page was tagged by someone with a picture of the Koran with a shoe on it. c) In 2013, over a 100 Christian homes were burned by Pakistani Muslim mobs just because a 14 year old girl of that community was accused of burning a page of the Koran.

While I do not have much time for this forum, on this thread I plan to add more news items, where human dignity and rights are trampled by Islamic fanaticism, as they emerge.

Readers/participants, please be advised that it is not about hating Muslims; it is about seeking human dignity and rights for all kinds of people, including those that call themselves Muslims and perpetrate and accept acts of injustice and hatred due to their religious brainwash.

I think much has been made of western foreign policy and the link to terrorism, but while foreign policy is a factor you have to view it in the context of extremist attitudes towards western ways of life and their intolerance of western liberalism. What caused the 9/11 attack on the twin towers? Was it due to western foreign policy? I don’t think so because this was before the Iraq or Afghanistan invasions so there have to be other reasons. The fact that the west did nothing in Syria after the ‘Arab Spring’ protests and Assad’s suppression of such protests precipitated the involvement of ISIS, something that was due to a lack of action by the west, not the opposite. So you cannot blame Muslim extremism solely on western foreign policy and it is often used as an excuse for atrocities who’s dynamics lie elsewhere.

Isis was born from USA warmongering in the Middle East. Right?

As far as I know ISIS arose from the lack of western support for the oppressed Assad dissenters. They felt betrayed by the west and various factions took matters into their own hands and became Muslim extremists. Blame Assad, not the west, this started out as an internal struggle.

That’s the stated excuse, yes. There is a lot more to it than the lack of support from the West. To focus on lack of supprt from the West is to lose sight of all the other crucial factors that are involved. The formation of Isis was inevitable considering the actual situation in the area. It would have happened with or without “support” from the West.

But you can’t have it both ways. You seem to blaming everything on western intervention, even when they do not actually intervene!

Give me an example

ISIS arose in the absence of any western intervention in Syria. It is only now that the west + Russia + Assad is fighting them after the event. ISIS arose as the result of a re-emergence of Islam fundamentalism to fight everyone else who did not subscribe to their philosophy, not just the west.

Isis grew out of the ruins of Iraq and Libya - a direct consequence of US imperialism. Thanks America.  Isis was/is well supported by USA financially and with weapons for regime change in Syria. It was only when they turned back into Iraq for the creation of their caliphate were they seen as a problem. ISIS, al-Qaeda, al-Nusra (ISIS in Syria) and like-minded groups are US creations.

They’re used as foot soldiers to advance its imperium – responsible for aiding Washington rape and destroy one country after another.

But why was ISIS not a factor in Syria before the Arab Spring and the suppression by Assad of revolutionaries? It was the frustration of those suffering under the government of Assad that triggered the emergence of ISIS, at least on a large scale. In fact, here in the UK, many young resident Muslims decided to go and fight for what they saw as the fundamental principles of Islam which were being suppressed by Assad’s regime. Had the west intervened at the time it is not clear whether ISIS would have risen to as much prominence as they did. You cannot keep blaming everything on western intervention because there have always existed discontents between the various factions in the Middle East which are easily inflamed. You keep mentioning Washing but do not say anything about Assad. You’re being a bit simplistic here.

USA saw the Arab spring in Syria as an opportunity for regime change thereby hijacking the revolution. Here from the world socialist website

“The US military interventions in Iraq and Syria are not aimed at “annihilating” ISIS, itself the product of the 2003 US invasion and occupation of Iraq, followed by Washington’s utilization of Islamist fighters as proxy ground forces in the regime-change wars in both Libya and Syria. While Raqqa has been surrounded by US-backed forces from the north, east and west, an escape route for ISIS fighters has been opened up to the southeast in order to funnel them into the province of Deir al-Zour, so they can fight the Syrian army there. Similarly, large numbers of ISIS fighters were allowed to flee Mosul, crossing the border into Syria for the same purpose.

Washington’s strategic objectives in Iraq and Syria are not those of “fighting terrorism,” but rather consolidating US hegemony over the oil-rich Middle East and preparing for war against the principal obstacles to this objective, Iran and Russia. For US imperialism, undisputed control over both the Persian Gulf and Central Asia would provide the means to cut off energy supplies to its global rival, China.”

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/06/15/pers-j15.html

You are an expert at magnifying one side of an issue and ignoring all the rest. You are a typical empty-headed ideologue.

You can’t make a coherent counter argument

Neither can you.

sure I can. USA support of ISIS and Alquida is not a controversial statement when it is in the interests of US Empire

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Posted: 20 July 2017 12:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 229 ]
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Adamski - 19 July 2017 10:50 PM
Write4U - 19 July 2017 06:35 PM

3000 years of middle-eastern religious wars, and the 250 year old USA is the culprit. How convenient.

completely ignore US Imperialism. How convenient

Oh, no. I am well aware of US history, including its history as a British colony.

Thus the US did certainly not invent Imperialistic expansion. Moreover many once colonized countries were allowed to return to independent rule.

But If we take an honest look at the history of Imperialism;

Chinese Imperialism
Early Chinese expansions
The king of the ancient state of Qin first unified the Chinese empire in 221 BC by conquering all of the other states in what was then considered China and proclaimed himself the “First Emperor” and became known as Qin Shi Huangdi.
The ancient Han Dynasty (202 BC-220 AD) established control over northern Vietnam, northern Korea, and the Tarim Basin of Central Asia. The short-lived Sui Dynasty (581–618 AD) reinvaded Annam (northern Vietnam) and attacked Champa (southern Vietnam), while they also attempted to conquer Korea, which failed (see Goguryeo-Sui Wars). The later Tang Dynasty (618–907) aided the Korean Silla Kingdom in defeating their two Korean rivals, yet became shortchanged when they discovered Silla was not about to allow the Tang to claim much of Goguryeo’s territory (as it had been under the Chinese Han Dynasty’s control a few centuries before, the Han having wrested it from native kingdoms at that time). The Tang Dynasty established control over the Tarim Basin region as well, fighting wars with the new Tibetan Empire and stripping them of their colonies in Central Asia (which was abandoned after the An Lushan Rebellion). The Song Dynasty (960–1279), in securing maritime trade routes that ran from South East Asia into the Indian Ocean, had established fortified trade bases in the Philippines. The Mongol-lead Yuan Dynasty (1279–1368) made attempts to invade Japan after securing the Korean peninsula through the vassaldom of the Korean Goryeo dynasty, yet both of these military ventures failed (see Mongol Invasions of Japan).

         

Islamic Imperialism                  
Imperialistic
The Muslim wars of imperialist conquest have been launched for almost 1,500 years against hundreds of nations, over millions of square miles (significantly larger than the British Empire at its peak). The lust for Muslim imperialist conquest stretched from southern France to the Philippines, from Austria to Nigeria, and from central Asia to New Guinea. This is the classic definition of imperialism—“the policy and practice of seeking to dominate the economic and political affairs of weaker countries.”
Colonialist
The Muslim goal was to have a central government, first at Damascus, and then at Baghdad—later at Cairo, Istanbul, or other imperial centers. The local governors, judges, and other rulers were appointed by the central imperial authorities for far off colonies. Islamic law was introduced as the senior law, whether or not wanted by the local people. Arabic was introduced as the rulers’ language, and the local language frequently disappeared. Two classes of residents were established. The native residents paid a tax that their colonialist rulers did not have to pay.
Although the law differed in different places, the following are examples of colonialist laws to which colonized Christians and Jews were made subject to over the years:
Christians and Jews could not bear arms—Muslims could;
Christians and Jews could not ride horses—Muslims could;
Christians and Jews had to get permission to build—Muslims did not;
Christians and Jews had to pay certain taxes which Muslims did not;
Christians could not proselytize—Muslims could;
Christians and Jews had to bow to their Muslim masters when they paid their taxes; and
Christians and Jews had to live under the law set forth in the Koran, not under either their own religious or secular law.
In each case, these laws allowed the local conquered people less freedom than was allowed the conquering colonialist rulers. Even non-Arab Muslim inhabitants of the conquered lands became second class citizens behind the ruling Arabs. This is the classic definition of colonialist—“a group of people who settle in a distant territory from the state having jurisdiction or control over it and who remain under the political jurisdiction of their native land.”

My wife is Native American, who’s ancestors settled the North American continent some 2000 years ago. We are well aware of that history as well.
I was born in Netherlands under Nazi occupation. As a four year old I saw our family doctor murdered across the street where we lived.

So don’t give me any lectures about Imperialism.

[ Edited: 20 July 2017 12:03 AM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 20 July 2017 12:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 230 ]
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Write4U - 20 July 2017 12:00 AM
Adamski - 19 July 2017 10:50 PM
Write4U - 19 July 2017 06:35 PM

3000 years of middle-eastern religious wars, and the 250 year old USA is the culprit. How convenient.

completely ignore US Imperialism. How convenient

Oh, no. I am well aware of US history, including its history as a British colony.

Thus the US did certainly not invent Imperialistic expansion. Moreover many once colonized countries were allowed to return to independent rule.

But If we take an honest look at the history of Imperialism;

Chinese Imperialism
Early Chinese expansions
The king of the ancient state of Qin first unified the Chinese empire in 221 BC by conquering all of the other states in what was then considered China and proclaimed himself the “First Emperor” and became known as Qin Shi Huangdi.
The ancient Han Dynasty (202 BC-220 AD) established control over northern Vietnam, northern Korea, and the Tarim Basin of Central Asia. The short-lived Sui Dynasty (581–618 AD) reinvaded Annam (northern Vietnam) and attacked Champa (southern Vietnam), while they also attempted to conquer Korea, which failed (see Goguryeo-Sui Wars). The later Tang Dynasty (618–907) aided the Korean Silla Kingdom in defeating their two Korean rivals, yet became shortchanged when they discovered Silla was not about to allow the Tang to claim much of Goguryeo’s territory (as it had been under the Chinese Han Dynasty’s control a few centuries before, the Han having wrested it from native kingdoms at that time). The Tang Dynasty established control over the Tarim Basin region as well, fighting wars with the new Tibetan Empire and stripping them of their colonies in Central Asia (which was abandoned after the An Lushan Rebellion). The Song Dynasty (960–1279), in securing maritime trade routes that ran from South East Asia into the Indian Ocean, had established fortified trade bases in the Philippines. The Mongol-lead Yuan Dynasty (1279–1368) made attempts to invade Japan after securing the Korean peninsula through the vassaldom of the Korean Goryeo dynasty, yet both of these military ventures failed (see Mongol Invasions of Japan).

         

Islamic Imperialism                  
Imperialistic
The Muslim wars of imperialist conquest have been launched for almost 1,500 years against hundreds of nations, over millions of square miles (significantly larger than the British Empire at its peak). The lust for Muslim imperialist conquest stretched from southern France to the Philippines, from Austria to Nigeria, and from central Asia to New Guinea. This is the classic definition of imperialism—“the policy and practice of seeking to dominate the economic and political affairs of weaker countries.”
Colonialist
The Muslim goal was to have a central government, first at Damascus, and then at Baghdad—later at Cairo, Istanbul, or other imperial centers. The local governors, judges, and other rulers were appointed by the central imperial authorities for far off colonies. Islamic law was introduced as the senior law, whether or not wanted by the local people. Arabic was introduced as the rulers’ language, and the local language frequently disappeared. Two classes of residents were established. The native residents paid a tax that their colonialist rulers did not have to pay.
Although the law differed in different places, the following are examples of colonialist laws to which colonized Christians and Jews were made subject to over the years:
Christians and Jews could not bear arms—Muslims could;
Christians and Jews could not ride horses—Muslims could;
Christians and Jews had to get permission to build—Muslims did not;
Christians and Jews had to pay certain taxes which Muslims did not;
Christians could not proselytize—Muslims could;
Christians and Jews had to bow to their Muslim masters when they paid their taxes; and
Christians and Jews had to live under the law set forth in the Koran, not under either their own religious or secular law.
In each case, these laws allowed the local conquered people less freedom than was allowed the conquering colonialist rulers. Even non-Arab Muslim inhabitants of the conquered lands became second class citizens behind the ruling Arabs. This is the classic definition of colonialist—“a group of people who settle in a distant territory from the state having jurisdiction or control over it and who remain under the political jurisdiction of their native land.”

My wife is Native American, who’s ancestors settled the North American continent some 2000 years ago. We are well aware of that history as well.
I was born in Netherlands under Nazi occupation. As a four year old I saw our family doctor murdered across the street where we lived.

So don’t give me any lectures about Imperialism.

Maybe this will help to crystallise it for you.

http://www.countercurrents.org/polya050713.htm

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Posted: 20 July 2017 12:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 231 ]
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Write4U - 20 July 2017 12:00 AM
Adamski - 19 July 2017 10:50 PM
Write4U - 19 July 2017 06:35 PM

3000 years of middle-eastern religious wars, and the 250 year old USA is the culprit. How convenient.

completely ignore US Imperialism. How convenient

Oh, no. I am well aware of US history, including its history as a British colony.

Thus the US did certainly not invent Imperialistic expansion. Moreover many once colonized countries were allowed to return to independent rule.

But If we take an honest look at the history of Imperialism;

Chinese Imperialism
Early Chinese expansions
The king of the ancient state of Qin first unified the Chinese empire in 221 BC by conquering all of the other states in what was then considered China and proclaimed himself the “First Emperor” and became known as Qin Shi Huangdi.
The ancient Han Dynasty (202 BC-220 AD) established control over northern Vietnam, northern Korea, and the Tarim Basin of Central Asia. The short-lived Sui Dynasty (581–618 AD) reinvaded Annam (northern Vietnam) and attacked Champa (southern Vietnam), while they also attempted to conquer Korea, which failed (see Goguryeo-Sui Wars). The later Tang Dynasty (618–907) aided the Korean Silla Kingdom in defeating their two Korean rivals, yet became shortchanged when they discovered Silla was not about to allow the Tang to claim much of Goguryeo’s territory (as it had been under the Chinese Han Dynasty’s control a few centuries before, the Han having wrested it from native kingdoms at that time). The Tang Dynasty established control over the Tarim Basin region as well, fighting wars with the new Tibetan Empire and stripping them of their colonies in Central Asia (which was abandoned after the An Lushan Rebellion). The Song Dynasty (960–1279), in securing maritime trade routes that ran from South East Asia into the Indian Ocean, had established fortified trade bases in the Philippines. The Mongol-lead Yuan Dynasty (1279–1368) made attempts to invade Japan after securing the Korean peninsula through the vassaldom of the Korean Goryeo dynasty, yet both of these military ventures failed (see Mongol Invasions of Japan).

         

Islamic Imperialism                  
Imperialistic
The Muslim wars of imperialist conquest have been launched for almost 1,500 years against hundreds of nations, over millions of square miles (significantly larger than the British Empire at its peak). The lust for Muslim imperialist conquest stretched from southern France to the Philippines, from Austria to Nigeria, and from central Asia to New Guinea. This is the classic definition of imperialism—“the policy and practice of seeking to dominate the economic and political affairs of weaker countries.”
Colonialist
The Muslim goal was to have a central government, first at Damascus, and then at Baghdad—later at Cairo, Istanbul, or other imperial centers. The local governors, judges, and other rulers were appointed by the central imperial authorities for far off colonies. Islamic law was introduced as the senior law, whether or not wanted by the local people. Arabic was introduced as the rulers’ language, and the local language frequently disappeared. Two classes of residents were established. The native residents paid a tax that their colonialist rulers did not have to pay.
Although the law differed in different places, the following are examples of colonialist laws to which colonized Christians and Jews were made subject to over the years:
Christians and Jews could not bear arms—Muslims could;
Christians and Jews could not ride horses—Muslims could;
Christians and Jews had to get permission to build—Muslims did not;
Christians and Jews had to pay certain taxes which Muslims did not;
Christians could not proselytize—Muslims could;
Christians and Jews had to bow to their Muslim masters when they paid their taxes; and
Christians and Jews had to live under the law set forth in the Koran, not under either their own religious or secular law.
In each case, these laws allowed the local conquered people less freedom than was allowed the conquering colonialist rulers. Even non-Arab Muslim inhabitants of the conquered lands became second class citizens behind the ruling Arabs. This is the classic definition of colonialist—“a group of people who settle in a distant territory from the state having jurisdiction or control over it and who remain under the political jurisdiction of their native land.”

My wife is Native American, who’s ancestors settled the North American continent some 2000 years ago. We are well aware of that history as well.
I was born in Netherlands under Nazi occupation. As a four year old I saw our family doctor murdered across the street where we lived.

So don’t give me any lectures about Imperialism.

Or this one
https://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-peoples-governments-the-master-list

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Posted: 20 July 2017 03:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 232 ]
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Adamski - 20 July 2017 12:28 AM
Write4U - 20 July 2017 12:00 AM

So don’t give me any lectures about Imperialism.

Maybe this will help to crystallise it for you.

http://www.countercurrents.org/polya050713.htm

I’m not sure if Adamski understands what numbers are. He has completely bought into the narrative that America is evil and the right response is to hate it, it’s citizen and anyone who defends it. This is exactly what the imperialists what him to do. Focus his anger on people just like him, and none of it on the actual forces that enslave women and children and send men off to kill each other. Those forces don’t care about borders and governments, they never did.

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Posted: 20 July 2017 04:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 233 ]
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Lausten - 20 July 2017 03:35 AM
Adamski - 20 July 2017 12:28 AM
Write4U - 20 July 2017 12:00 AM

So don’t give me any lectures about Imperialism.

Maybe this will help to crystallise it for you.

http://www.countercurrents.org/polya050713.htm

I’m not sure if Adamski understands what numbers are. He has completely bought into the narrative that America is evil and the right response is to hate it, it’s citizen and anyone who defends it. This is exactly what the imperialists what him to do. Focus his anger on people just like him, and none of it on the actual forces that enslave women and children and send men off to kill each other. Those forces don’t care about borders and governments, they never did.

Nah. America is a force for good without any self interests bring freedom and democracy all round the globe. You jerk

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Posted: 20 July 2017 04:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 234 ]
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Adamski - 19 July 2017 10:50 PM
Write4U - 19 July 2017 06:35 PM

3000 years of middle-eastern religious wars, and the 250 year old USA is the culprit. How convenient.

completely ignore US Imperialism. How convenient.

I do not completely ignore US/Western imperialism. But it is not the principal player for the woes of the Muslims or for the problems they create practically all over the world. In this thread there are many examples where it is obvious that following of Islam is the primary reason for the atrocities that Muslim have been committing on non-Muslims and on Muslims that the fanatics do not consider Muslim enough.

As for terrorism, US/Western imperialism has caused misery to many nations; but many of those nations did not produce terrorists. For example, the worst terrorist acts in the history of the world, nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, did not produce Japanese terrorists in the USA.

[ Edited: 20 July 2017 04:51 AM by Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain ]
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Posted: 20 July 2017 04:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 235 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 20 July 2017 04:48 AM
Adamski - 19 July 2017 10:50 PM
Write4U - 19 July 2017 06:35 PM

3000 years of middle-eastern religious wars, and the 250 year old USA is the culprit. How convenient.

completely ignore US Imperialism. How convenient.

I do not completely ignore US/Western imperialism. But it is not the principal player for the woes of the Muslims or for the problems they create practically all over the world. In this thread there are many examples where it is obvious that following of Islam is the primary reason for the atrocities that Muslim have been committing on non-Muslims and on Muslims that the fanatics do not consider Muslim enough.

As for terrorism, US/Western imperialism has caused misery to many nations; but many of those nations did not produce terrorists. For example, the worst terrorist acts in the history of the world, nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, did not produce Japanese terrorists in the USA.

Occupation?

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Posted: 20 July 2017 04:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 236 ]
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Adamski said,
Nah. America is a force for good without any self interests bring freedom and democracy all round the globe. You jerk

Apparently you have not read the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Give me a better example of a fundamental secular philosophy of any other country, regardless of past and/or current foreign policy mistakes.
There is no country on earth that has not had bad leadership or poor judgment, or just plain bad apples.

At least in the US you can speak your mind and vote your conscience without fear of being persecuted for your beliefs.

This forum is a good example.  If you have not read this forums mission statement, I’ll quote it for you.

The mission of the Center for Inquiry is to foster a secular society based on reason, science, freedom of inquiry, and humanist values.

You can make up your mind to read the full content, if you are interested.  Just click on the CFI Logo in the Forum Home Page.

But if you think people that frequent this Forum are stupid or not voice critiques of our government, when it takes wrong actions, then you are very misinformed.  Have you read any of the other threads in the Politics and Social Issues section? I bet you haven’t, because you aren’t interested in anything but spouting your own skewed worldview.

[ Edited: 20 July 2017 04:58 AM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 20 July 2017 05:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 237 ]
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Write4U - 20 July 2017 04:55 AM

Adamski said,
Nah. America is a force for good without any self interests bring freedom and democracy all round the globe. You jerk

Apparently you have not read the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Give me a better example of a fundamental secular philosophy of any other country, regardless of past and/or current foreign policy mistakes.
There is no country on earth that has not had bad leadership or poor judgment, or just plain bad apples.

At least in the US you can speak your mind and vote your conscience without fear of being persecuted for your beliefs.

This forum is a good example.  If you have not read this forums mission statement, I’ll quote it for you.

The mission of the Center for Inquiry is to foster a secular society based on reason, science, freedom of inquiry, and humanist values.

You can make up your mind to read the full content, if you are interested.  Just click on the CFI Logo in the Forum Home Page.

But if you think people that frequent this Forum are stupid or not voice critiques of our government, when it takes wrong actions, then you are very misinformed.  Have you read any of the other threads in the Politics and Social Issues section? I bet you haven’t, because you aren’t interested in anything but spouting your own skewed worldview.

Writer - this list of countries. US INTERVENTION OR NOT?

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Posted: 20 July 2017 05:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 238 ]
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Adamski said,
Writer - this list of countries. US INTERVENTION OR NOT?

How about a list of foreign aid to countries who have experienced pandemics or earthquake, or Tsunami disasters.  Who is first on the scene?

[ Edited: 20 July 2017 05:50 AM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 20 July 2017 05:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 239 ]
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Write4U - 20 July 2017 05:24 AM

Adamski said,
Writer - this list of countries. US INTERVENTION OR NOT?

Hoe about a list of foreign aid to countries who have experienced pandemics or earthquake, or Tsunami disasters.  Who is first on the scene?

Writer. You are a shocker

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Posted: 20 July 2017 06:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 240 ]
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Adamski - 20 July 2017 05:31 AM
Write4U - 20 July 2017 05:24 AM

Adamski said,
Writer - this list of countries. US INTERVENTION OR NOT?

Hoe about a list of foreign aid to countries who have experienced pandemics or earthquake, or Tsunami disasters.  Who is first on the scene?

Writer. You are a shocker

First, I would appreciate to be addressed properly. It’s a sign of sloppy reading or disrespect on your part.

No, I am a realist. There is no perfect world and as long as we are adding 100 million people to the world’s population every year the need and competition for resources will increase at an exponential rate. It’s a mathematical certainty. But I wonder if you are familiar with the Exponential Function. I doubt it.

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