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Are they really due to Western foreign policies?
Posted: 10 August 2017 06:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 256 ]
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Adamski - 09 August 2017 12:39 PM
Lausten - 09 August 2017 09:20 AM
webplodder - 09 August 2017 03:56 AM

Why is it that it’s always the fault of western powers that there is so much unrest and terrorism abroad? The various factions in the Middle-East have always been at each other’s throat and the terrible crimes that went on and still go on under Eastern despots is rarely mentioned. I think there are simply too many inadequate people who take every opportunity to ‘knock the establishment’ in the mistaken belief they are ‘doing good’. Such people need to take a long, cool look at themselves.

It’s not “always” anything. That’s just your bubble. It’s obfuscation of the problem. You touch on the underlying problems, but you scramble them in your search for someone to blame. The lack of history education is a fundamental problem. Leaving the teaching of morality to the churches is another. Both of those lead to moral relativism and confusion about when Western powers are interfering in the affairs of others and when they should be speaking to their values. We are a global species, separated by centuries of culture, but we’ve come back together. The old system of accepting one or two new members into the tribe has to be expanded to include the whole tribe. Making ‘doing good’ a bad thing is the exact opposite of that.

What values are western powers speaking?

I find you rather obtuse Adamski, so I’m not going to assemble a list for you. Try looking up Obama’s last speech to the press as President. I think he covered Western values pretty well. Or any democratic constitution will do as a start. Or civil rights laws.

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Posted: 10 August 2017 06:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 257 ]
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webplodder - 09 August 2017 11:29 PM
Adamski - 09 August 2017 12:40 PM
webplodder - 09 August 2017 03:56 AM

Why is it that it’s always the fault of western powers that there is so much unrest and terrorism abroad? The various factions in the Middle-East have always been at each other’s throat and the terrible crimes that went on and still go on under Eastern despots is rarely mentioned. I think there are simply too many inadequate people who take every opportunity to ‘knock the establishment’ in the mistaken belief they are ‘doing good’. Such people need to take a long, cool look at themselves.

I see . They are savages we are civilised.

Well, if you consider open democratic countries as civilised, yes. How can you compare what happens in the Middle East with our way of life? I think we do come out of it as being civilised. Would you like to live in one of these countries as an average citizen? I kind of doubt it.

You have a narrow view of the world webplodder. Sure, it’s peaceful in your neighborhood, because you live well within a border of a nation that sends people out all over the world to kill people in the middle of the night. We’ve been doing it as long as we’ve been a country. We’re either enslaving the indigenous or colonizing the poor or extracting their resources. Then we use their land to fight wars. Why are two world wars okay but tribalism in the desert is not?

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Posted: 10 August 2017 09:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 258 ]
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webplodder - 09 August 2017 11:29 PM
Adamski - 09 August 2017 12:40 PM
webplodder - 09 August 2017 03:56 AM

Why is it that it’s always the fault of western powers that there is so much unrest and terrorism abroad? The various factions in the Middle-East have always been at each other’s throat and the terrible crimes that went on and still go on under Eastern despots is rarely mentioned. I think there are simply too many inadequate people who take every opportunity to ‘knock the establishment’ in the mistaken belief they are ‘doing good’. Such people need to take a long, cool look at themselves.

I see . They are savages we are civilised.

Well, if you consider open democratic countries as civilised, yes. How can you compare what happens in the Middle East with our way of life? I think we do come out of it as being civilised. Would you like to live in one of these countries as an average citizen? I kind of doubt it.

Its a bad idea to apply our standards of “civilization” to the rest of the world. Democracy isn’t inherently civilized and the clan based society of much of the Middle East isn’t inherently uncivilized.

In some ways ME is much stronger…...there’s no doubt they will outlive us.

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Posted: 10 August 2017 01:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 259 ]
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Lausten - 10 August 2017 06:22 AM
Adamski - 09 August 2017 12:39 PM
Lausten - 09 August 2017 09:20 AM
webplodder - 09 August 2017 03:56 AM

Why is it that it’s always the fault of western powers that there is so much unrest and terrorism abroad? The various factions in the Middle-East have always been at each other’s throat and the terrible crimes that went on and still go on under Eastern despots is rarely mentioned. I think there are simply too many inadequate people who take every opportunity to ‘knock the establishment’ in the mistaken belief they are ‘doing good’. Such people need to take a long, cool look at themselves.

It’s not “always” anything. That’s just your bubble. It’s obfuscation of the problem. You touch on the underlying problems, but you scramble them in your search for someone to blame. The lack of history education is a fundamental problem. Leaving the teaching of morality to the churches is another. Both of those lead to moral relativism and confusion about when Western powers are interfering in the affairs of others and when they should be speaking to their values. We are a global species, separated by centuries of culture, but we’ve come back together. The old system of accepting one or two new members into the tribe has to be expanded to include the whole tribe. Making ‘doing good’ a bad thing is the exact opposite of that.

What values are western powers speaking?

I find you rather obtuse Adamski, so I’m not going to assemble a list for you. Try looking up Obama’s last speech to the press as President. I think he covered Western values pretty well. Or any democratic constitution will do as a start. Or civil rights laws.

Civil rights and democratic institutions are being eroded as socio economic conditions deteriorate for the working class in this current crisis that capitalism is going through. Some great value you have there tat can simply be done away with whenever it suits those in power

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Posted: 11 August 2017 12:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 260 ]
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Beltane - 10 August 2017 09:01 AM
webplodder - 09 August 2017 11:29 PM
Adamski - 09 August 2017 12:40 PM
webplodder - 09 August 2017 03:56 AM

Why is it that it’s always the fault of western powers that there is so much unrest and terrorism abroad? The various factions in the Middle-East have always been at each other’s throat and the terrible crimes that went on and still go on under Eastern despots is rarely mentioned. I think there are simply too many inadequate people who take every opportunity to ‘knock the establishment’ in the mistaken belief they are ‘doing good’. Such people need to take a long, cool look at themselves.

I see . They are savages we are civilised.

Well, if you consider open democratic countries as civilised, yes. How can you compare what happens in the Middle East with our way of life? I think we do come out of it as being civilised. Would you like to live in one of these countries as an average citizen? I kind of doubt it.

Its a bad idea to apply our standards of “civilization” to the rest of the world. Democracy isn’t inherently civilized and the clan based society of much of the Middle East isn’t inherently uncivilized.

In some ways ME is much stronger…...there’s no doubt they will outlive us.

I’m a bit taken aback that a cultured man such as yourself thinks that.  confused

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Posted: 11 August 2017 12:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 261 ]
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Adamski - 10 August 2017 01:48 PM
Lausten - 10 August 2017 06:22 AM
Adamski - 09 August 2017 12:39 PM
Lausten - 09 August 2017 09:20 AM
webplodder - 09 August 2017 03:56 AM

Why is it that it’s always the fault of western powers that there is so much unrest and terrorism abroad? The various factions in the Middle-East have always been at each other’s throat and the terrible crimes that went on and still go on under Eastern despots is rarely mentioned. I think there are simply too many inadequate people who take every opportunity to ‘knock the establishment’ in the mistaken belief they are ‘doing good’. Such people need to take a long, cool look at themselves.

It’s not “always” anything. That’s just your bubble. It’s obfuscation of the problem. You touch on the underlying problems, but you scramble them in your search for someone to blame. The lack of history education is a fundamental problem. Leaving the teaching of morality to the churches is another. Both of those lead to moral relativism and confusion about when Western powers are interfering in the affairs of others and when they should be speaking to their values. We are a global species, separated by centuries of culture, but we’ve come back together. The old system of accepting one or two new members into the tribe has to be expanded to include the whole tribe. Making ‘doing good’ a bad thing is the exact opposite of that.

What values are western powers speaking?

I find you rather obtuse Adamski, so I’m not going to assemble a list for you. Try looking up Obama’s last speech to the press as President. I think he covered Western values pretty well. Or any democratic constitution will do as a start. Or civil rights laws.

Civil rights and democratic institutions are being eroded as socio economic conditions deteriorate for the working class in this current crisis that capitalism is going through. Some great value you have there tat can simply be done away with whenever it suits those in power

No political system is perfect because human beings are not perfect but at least our system provides enough freedoms for people to follow their dreams. Not everyone has the same abilities - just a fact of life.  grin

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Posted: 11 August 2017 03:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 262 ]
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Beltane - 10 August 2017 09:01 AM

Its a bad idea to apply our standards of “civilization” to the rest of the world. Democracy isn’t inherently civilized and the clan based society of much of the Middle East isn’t inherently uncivilized.

In some ways ME is much stronger…...there’s no doubt they will outlive us.

It is not really a matter of ‘our standard’ and ‘their standard’. It is “civilized standard”. And, let us come to the sense that ‘we’ are not the best in terms of all aspects of human civilization.

I agree with you “Democracy isn’t inherently civilized”. Here is the Oxford Dictionaries definition of “democracy”: “a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives”. It certainly implies that in order for democracy to be civilized, the population has to be civilized. When a population through free elections put religious hate-mongers in power, for example, they clearly do not deserve democracy; they need dictators like Turkey’s Mustafa Kemal Atatürk.

It is true that the peoples in the ME have been enduring the wars. But when forced upon, all kinds of people can endure a lot. But could you explain how the Middle East might be stronger than us or could outlive us?

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Posted: 11 August 2017 10:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 263 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 11 August 2017 03:23 PM

But could you explain how the Middle East might be stronger than us or could outlive us?

Yup, that chain of reasoning would be fascinating to hear.
Maybe it’s got something to do with all the resources they have stashed away.
But it takes more than bombs and weapons to survive, don’t cha know.

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Posted: 12 August 2017 05:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 264 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 11 August 2017 03:23 PM

It is true that the peoples in the ME have been enduring the wars. But when forced upon, all kinds of people can endure a lot. But could you explain how the Middle East might be stronger than us or could outlive us?

Important to note that there’s quite a bit of cultural variation in the Middle East, but most of them are simply tougher than us.

ME societies have existed for a long time in a part of the world that’s both geopolitically and physically very hostile; that environment breeds survivors. Nobody has ever bent them much out of their basic shape.

The West (and liberal democracy in general) is relatively new and untested, and requires a lot of maintenance - often at other people’s expense - to keep going. On top of this the western lifestyle makes those who live in it weak and sick - which leads to failure to keep up the maintenance. That is what we’ve been seeing in the west for some time.

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Posted: 12 August 2017 07:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 265 ]
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Adamski - 10 August 2017 01:48 PM

Civil rights and democratic institutions are being eroded as socio economic conditions deteriorate for the working class in this current crisis that capitalism is going through. Some great value you have there tat can simply be done away with whenever it suits those in power

I said they SHOULD be speaking to values. You can figure out what I meant without spending too much time thinking about it. You are picking speeches that are leading to the erosion and claiming that’s what I meant. This is why I don’t talk to you.

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Posted: 16 September 2017 06:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 266 ]
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Indonesian woman lashed 100 times for ‘being in presence of man she was not married to’

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/woman-caning-100-times-hospital-indonesia-aceh-shariah-law-a7943491.html

Some people argue that Indonesia is quite a bit civilized among the Muslim-majority countries! That may be true. But Indonesia is certainly not civilized enough; and their barbaric way of life surely is not due to anything that the West has done in the world.

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