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Are they really due to Western foreign policies?
Posted: 04 October 2016 06:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Lausten - 03 October 2016 04:24 AM

Yes, why don’t you try to stop calling little girls names. That’s a great idea. Now, let’s try not thinking they are stupid. They are young however and may not be aware of all the symbols of the world. Just as you weren’t aware that your school was preparing you for your place in the industrial world by having you respond to bells and sit quietly while the master told you what to do. (I’m assuming you went to some sort of Western public school). Did spouses of leaders visit those kinds of schools where such brain washing was going on? Where they taught that Christopher Columbus was a hero?

And I never said you hated those girls.

I would not call up the girls and say, “you look like Islamic zombies.” But I would advise Michelle Obama, other naive/corrupt humanists and possibly the Islamic adults that are spoiling the little girls that you called “may not be aware of all the symbols of the world.” Indeed, little children are not aware of most of the symbols of the world. But it is the responsibility of good adults to give them the right stuff, as opposed to raising them without the senses of self-respect and respect for the rights of others.

It is wrong to compare hijab with pupils running to the class at the bell, being attentive to the class lesson from the teacher, or learning that Columbus was a hero. The first two are vital for discipline and learning. Unlike hijab, the last one does not involve a symbol of lack of self-respect, nor does it have a long-lasting divine brainwashing component; and it can be unlearned (or learned more objectively) easily as the children grow up and analyze the history.

[ Edited: 04 October 2016 09:22 AM by Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain ]
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Posted: 04 October 2016 10:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 04 October 2016 06:16 AM

I would not call up the girls and say, “you look like Islamic zombies.” But I would advise Michelle Obama, other naive/corrupt humanists and possibly the Islamic adults that are spoiling the little girls that you called “may not be aware of all the symbols of the world.” Indeed, little children are not aware of most of the symbols of the world. But it is the responsibility of good adults to give them the right stuff, as opposed to raising them without the senses of self-respect and respect for the rights of others.

It is wrong to compare hijab with pupils running to the class at the bell, being attentive to the class lesson from the teacher, or learning that Columbus was a hero. The first two are vital for discipline and learning. Unlike hijab, the last one does not involve a symbol of lack of self-respect, nor does it have a long-lasting divine brainwashing component; and it can be unlearned (or learned more objectively) easily as the children grow up and analyze the history.

Oh, that’s too bad, you kinda cancel out the comment you made in our other thread. Oh well.

Re: your comments on Columbus, I wonder what you know about Columbus. You might enjoy the book “Lies My Teacher Told Me”. It’s by a college history professor. He talks of having to spend most of his Freshman classes undoing everything kids were taught in High School. And that’s people who are interested in history and are seeking information. Most people don’t want to be corrected on what they know about their country’s founders. Or perhaps you have had a different experience. Perhaps you missed the news about the confederate flag. Perhaps you don’t have any friends who are 1/4 Cherokee and annually protest the celebration of Columbus Day. Maybe you don’t live next to South Dakota, where they renamed the day “Indigenous People’s Day”, and that was not a bipartisan effort. One of their colleges is still “The Fighting Souix”, despite the lack of Native Americans playing on their teams. Maybe you haven’t been to New Orleans and noticed the lack of honest information about the slave trade.

I picked up a history book in my school library in 4th grade, not a textbook, not the stuff they water down and present to us because we aren’t ready for the real story, an actual history book. In the first few pages it laid out the facts of Columbus being rejected by Portugal because he asked for too much in return, not because they didn’t believe the world was round or some other ridiculous notion. That was 1970, and I’ve paid a lot of attention to how schools have changed over the decades. To say that it is easy to grow up and analyze history, is to me, absurd.

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Posted: 06 October 2016 02:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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Another senseless and hateful act of murders and atrocities on innocent people! Shouldn’t people like us who live in safe zones think beyond “Why they hate us?” and address the question of “Why they hate?”?

Al-Shabab ‘kills Christians’ in Kenya’s Mandera town

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37571205

[ Edited: 06 October 2016 03:00 PM by Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain ]
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Posted: 07 October 2016 04:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Have you read “End of Faith” by Sam Harris? He’s reading it for free on his blog, and adding commentary about the passages that have caused him trouble over the years. About a half hour in to the first chapter he talks about moderates. It’s an extensive discussion and a scathing review of moderates. It seems this project you keep asking about has been going on for 12 years.

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Posted: 08 October 2016 03:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Lausten - 07 October 2016 04:59 AM

Have you read “End of Faith” by Sam Harris? He’s reading it for free on his blog, and adding commentary about the passages that have caused him trouble over the years. About a half hour in to the first chapter he talks about moderates. It’s an extensive discussion and a scathing review of moderates. It seems this project you keep asking about has been going on for 12 years.

“End of Faith” by Sam Harris is indeed a well-written book of reasoning. The trouble of analyzing and attacking blind faiths, especially the ones that cause hatred between people, needs to be taken up by not only more secular humanist intellectuals, but, more critically, by politicians. I am quite convinced that without the so-called moderates providing the breeding ground, there would be no religious extremist in the world.

[ Edited: 08 October 2016 03:45 AM by Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain ]
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Posted: 08 October 2016 05:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 08 October 2016 03:41 AM
Lausten - 07 October 2016 04:59 AM

Have you read “End of Faith” by Sam Harris? He’s reading it for free on his blog, and adding commentary about the passages that have caused him trouble over the years. About a half hour in to the first chapter he talks about moderates. It’s an extensive discussion and a scathing review of moderates. It seems this project you keep asking about has been going on for 12 years.

“End of Faith” by Sam Harris is indeed a well-written book of reasoning. The trouble of analyzing and attacking blind faiths, especially the ones that cause hatred between people, needs to be taken up by not only more secular humanist intellectuals, but, more critically, by politicians. I am quite convinced that without the so-called moderates providing the breeding ground, there would be no religious extremist in the world.

That’s a long discussion, so I’ll just leave it that obviously, there is a spectrum. I don’t know about this “breeding ground” however. Most stories I know go from fundie to liberal. History has also been going this way. I think we call it a problem because it seems to be taking so dang long. One thing that pushes people toward conservatism is difficult times. When there is war, death, famine, or natural disasters, people move toward familiar and comforting beliefs. It doesn’t need to be conscious, but politicians can create that kind of world, then say they have the cure for it. A moderate, someone more open to evidence, someone espousing universal values, can’t do that.

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Posted: 08 October 2016 07:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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How Sweden became an exporter of jihad: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37578919

Sweden is a peaceful democratic state that has long been a safe haven for Muslim refugees. It surely is not blamed for any kind of atrocities on Muslims anywhere. Yet, per capita, that country is one of the biggest exporters of jihadists from Europe. Here is why they do it, as per one former jihadist: “When you go this way you don’t think about the worldly life. Like I (sic) can have a good bed. You don’t care about these things. You just think about the fastest way I (sic) can die and go to heaven.”

What a shame, as per this this article, “Religious enforcers attempt to control the community to ensure Sharia law is adhered to. They allegedly harass and intimidate people - mainly women - for the way they dress and for attending parties where there is music and dancing, which they consider haram (forbidden).” Islamic religious enforces ensuring Sharia law in Sweden! Isn’t allowing it pure and simple stupidity on the part of the Swedes?

[ Edited: 09 October 2016 03:18 AM by Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain ]
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Posted: 09 October 2016 07:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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There’s really nothing that you can’t turn into support for your narrative, is there Suky? The story is about a country that is accepting refugees in huge and numbers, and is having trouble keeping up with housing and jobs. What would you like them to do? Leave those people to die where they were? You have one police officer reporting a fairly small number, but you blame the entire country. You complain a lot about others, but offer nothing.

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Posted: 10 October 2016 07:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Maryland imam’s advocacy of ISIS lands him at center of terrorism probe: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/maryland-imams-advocacy-of-isis-lands-him-at-center-of-terrorism-probe/2016/10/06/421c6627-c715-4fe7-a246-70871169cf49_story.html?hpid=hp_local-news_imam-715am:homepage/story

Advocacy of ISIS is a problem all right.

How about:

* A Blistering fatwa against feminism through a Sharia Law Center in Montgomery County, MD, not far from the US capital!!

* An Islamic Jurisprudence Center in the USA to promote understanding of Sharia law and to engage in “fighting the anti-Islamic agendas of the kuffar [unbelievers] and munafiqeen [hypocrites] in the West.”!!

[ Edited: 11 October 2016 03:07 AM by Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain ]
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Posted: 23 October 2016 07:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Don’t the nations of the world (both West and East) that can be called mostly civilized need to have policies that would help these people in this video move toward civilization?

http://www.nytimes.com/video/world/middleeast/100000004711633/ladies-first-saudi-arabias-female-candidates.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT;.nav=top-news

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Posted: 23 October 2016 07:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 28 September 2016 03:36 PM
MikeYohe - 27 September 2016 05:36 PM

It is very hard for me to get a clear picture in my mind about Abdus Salam. And it easy for me to confuse what goes on politically and socially in India with Pakistan. My understanding is that in Pakistan the caste system is used with quotas according to the caste systems as to who gets to go to college. So, naturally the question comes to mind, if Salam was sending students to colleges in other countries and his home country is not giving him credit. Was Salam at disagreement with the Pakistan caste system, thus fighting the government and the caste system? It was not talked about in either posting lead, but I can’t see how it would not have been a big issue. As the college caste system is a big issue in Pakistan today. My question is. If the caste system is an issue. Then is the caste system also a religious issue in your opinion?

Abdus Salam was a Ahmadiyya Muslim. Here are three links that you can check out to learn about that community:

http://www.alislam.org/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/qasim-rashid/10-fabrications-muslim-leaders-need-to-stop-making-about-ahmadi-muslims_b_5854492.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260964/do-ahmadi-muslims-really-speak-islam-dr-stephen-m-kirby

In any case, the Caste System is a Hindu phenomenon; Muslims do not have that. (Although like all other communities, Muslims also have high, middle and low class kind of distinguishing mindsets.)

The reason behind the persecution of Ahmadiyya and Sufi Muslims is that the Sunni and Shia Muslims do not consider them Muslims. It is a problem within Muslims due to their caring too much about who is following Islam properly and who is not.

Abdus Salam does not get the respect he deserves in his birthplace, because in that country he and his community are considered heretics, fake Muslims.

If Muslims don’t have a caste system you should tell them. They apparently have no idea.


…. Like castes elsewhere in Islamic world, Muslims in India have a caste system. Ashrafs are presumed to have a superior status, “while the Ajlafs have a lower status. The Arzal caste among Muslims was regarded as the equivalent of untouchables, by anti-caste activists like Ambedkar, and by the colonial British ethnographer Herbert Risley who claimed that 56 percent of Muslims in British India were of a caste equivalent in status as the Hindu Shudras and Untouchables. In the Bengal region of India, some Muslims stratify their society according to ‘Quoms.’ Some scholars have asserted that the Muslim “castes” are not as acute in their discrimination as those of the Hindus, while other scholars argue that the social evils in South Asian Muslim society were worse than those seen in Hindu society” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India

“The Koran itself sanctifies the caste system condemning half of humanity to a lower level than men. For this read

“4:34 SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

“You can thrash a woman like a slave if you are displeased with her.

“In Surah 2:228 Allah confirms the lowly position of women in condemning to be a degree below males.

“There are authentic hadiths which show the low caste status of women.

“Sahih Bukhari 7:62:115 Narrated ‘Aisha: The things which annul the prayers were mentioned before me. They said, “Prayer is annulled by a dog, a donkey and a woman (if they pass in front of the praying people).” I said, “You have made us (i.e. women) dogs. I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in my bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I would slip away. for I disliked to face him.” [Also 1.9.490, 493, 498]”


http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/196426

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Posted: 27 October 2016 07:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Ashraf and Ajlaf caste distinction is a corruption of the Indian sub-continental Muslims by the Hindu caste system of that land. It is like giving up bad habits/traditions is hard. Islam does not have a caste system.

The inferior status of women in Islam is not really caste system; it is gender inequality - injustice and hatred against women.

Of course, the Muslims against Muslims discontent, hatred and violence in many parts of the world are mostly due to their disagreements on what is Islam and on who is following Islam properly and who is not. No other religious group suffers so much due to this kind of intra-religion disagreements.

[ Edited: 28 October 2016 03:06 AM by Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain ]
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Posted: 28 October 2016 05:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 27 October 2016 07:09 PM

Of course, the Muslims against Muslims discontent, hatred and violence in many parts of the world are mostly due to their disagreements on what is Islam and on who is following Islam properly and who is not. No other religious group suffers so much due to this kind of intra-religion disagreements.

How much of those conflicts actually have economic/environmental roots, with the religion simply overlaid onto those tensions for added passion and hysteria?

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Posted: 28 October 2016 08:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 27 October 2016 07:09 PM

Islam does not have a caste system.

There does not seem to be a caste system in the Quran. But there are views that there is in Islam today. Is it enough to be an issue? I don’t know. It may be like Saudi Arabia declaring all atheists terrorists (starting post). Once you know the Saudi thinking, well then of course it makes rational sense.

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Posted: 29 October 2016 04:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 28 October 2016 05:30 AM

How much of those conflicts actually have economic/environmental roots, with the religion simply overlaid onto those tensions for added passion and hysteria?

I am sure a lot of Muslim crimes against Muslims are also due to economic reasons such as poverty and greed, due to reasons such gaining political power, due to reasons like two men falling in love with the same woman, and due to other emotional reasons. In these respects Muslims are pretty much the same as non-Muslims. The difference is that Muslims have disproportionately high percentage of people who wish to adhere to Islam and follow the religion blindly. Thus, there are a lot more crimes/terrorism for protecting and propagating Islam compared to any other religion.

MikeYohe - 28 October 2016 08:11 AM

There does not seem to be a caste system in the Quran. But there are views that there is in Islam today. Is it enough to be an issue? I don’t know. It may be like Saudi Arabia declaring all atheists terrorists (starting post). Once you know the Saudi thinking, well then of course it makes rational sense.

I would not recognize declaring atheists as terrorists/criminals ‘rational’. In the world that is worth its human intelligence and civilization, there should be no law to praise/promote religion or to denigrate/criminalize lack of religion. Any kind of offence against the so-called God/gods or against the preaching of the so-called prophets should be left for the so-called God/gods to act on.

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