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Are they really due to Western foreign policies?
Posted: 24 November 2016 07:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
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A great discussion between Sam Harris and Maajid Nawaz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwQhu1A-Ats

I am glad to see that Sam Harris thinks that the Western world has not created the phenomenon called global jihad.

While I agree with Maajid Nawaz that some 1.6 billion Muslims are not going to apostatize overnight, the peaceful equilibrium end result has to be that, however long that might take.

For now, more humans who have grown up thinking that they are Muslims need to start thinking like that they are humans, that they were not born with a stamp of Islam on them, that it is not their duty to defend Islam/Mohammad, and that they are not to follow the Koran/Hadits to the point of accepting any kind of injustice, hatred, barbarity, etc.  That would be more like the fact that almost a quarter of the population of the Western world are atheists and agnostics now by abandoning Christianity. The secular and humanist intellectuals/forces of the world need to help the Muslims in that endeavor.

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Posted: 24 November 2016 08:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
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I totally agree with you Sam.
People around the world basically start out the same. It seems to be the environment they grow up in that causes a lot of the changes. Hopefully the internet being worldwide will help. But what I am seeing more of in the news, is counties wanting to control the data and messages on the internet. It’s like the countries want to program their population. Leading to the question. Do you think the Saudi family control over the areas religion is helpful? The reason I am asking is that I read that the main reason the world is having all this Muslim trouble right now is because we took out the leaders in several countries that once controlled the religious groups.

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Posted: 25 November 2016 08:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
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MikeYohe - 24 November 2016 08:05 PM

Do you think the Saudi family control over the areas religion is helpful? The reason I am asking is that I read that the main reason the world is having all this Muslim trouble right now is because we took out the leaders in several countries that once controlled the religious groups.

Killing Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi certainly helped the Islamic fanatics in their countries. Saddam was the most secular Arab leader of his time. In fact, the semi-European nation of Turkey had a good deal of secularism over quite a few decades because of the good dictator named Mustafa Kemal Pasha. However, democracy has brought Islamic fanatics to power in Turkey.

However, civilization of humans by dictatorial forces cannot last; it has to happen via people thinking with reason and giving up religious, traditional and societal injustice, hatred and barbarity. That is why I think Islamic fanaticism must be tackled with honesty and intellect of humanists, as opposed to guns and bombs of powerful nations.

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Posted: 26 November 2016 07:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 06 October 2016 02:52 PM

Another senseless and hateful act of murders and atrocities on innocent people! Shouldn’t people like us who live in safe zones think beyond “Why they hate us?” and address the question of “Why they hate?”?

Al-Shabab ‘kills Christians’ in Kenya’s Mandera town

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37571205

NOPE.  UNTIL YOU START RECOGNIZING YOURSELF FOR WHAT YOU ARE - NONE OF THE REST OF IT CAN FALL INTO PLACE.

This is where the true lesson of Jesus and his Passion come in, but that’s a different discussion.

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Posted: 26 November 2016 10:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 25 November 2016 08:27 PM
MikeYohe - 24 November 2016 08:05 PM

Do you think the Saudi family control over the areas religion is helpful? The reason I am asking is that I read that the main reason the world is having all this Muslim trouble right now is because we took out the leaders in several countries that once controlled the religious groups.

Killing Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi certainly helped the Islamic fanatics in their countries. Saddam was the most secular Arab leader of his time. In fact, the semi-European nation of Turkey had a good deal of secularism over quite a few decades because of the good dictator named Mustafa Kemal Pasha. However, democracy has brought Islamic fanatics to power in Turkey.

However, civilization of humans by dictatorial forces cannot last; it has to happen via people thinking with reason and giving up religious, traditional and societal injustice, hatred and barbarity. That is why I think Islamic fanaticism must be tackled with honesty and intellect of humanists, as opposed to guns and bombs of powerful nations.

Next question, Saudi not included. Do you think dictators like Saddam was sort of a puppet or front man for U.S. interests? That we were sort of a quasi-dictator that wanted to keep our hands clean?
 
Tidbit, there may be one exception, Ancient Egypt. Where the dictatorial forces were religion and the goal was to keep the people happy by keeping greed away. Greed caused the earth to become unbalanced and wealth had to be redistributed about every twenty years.  But that is so far back in time that we can’t know all the facts.

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Posted: 27 November 2016 08:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
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MikeYohe - 26 November 2016 10:50 AM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 25 November 2016 08:27 PM
MikeYohe - 24 November 2016 08:05 PM

Do you think the Saudi family control over the areas religion is helpful? The reason I am asking is that I read that the main reason the world is having all this Muslim trouble right now is because we took out the leaders in several countries that once controlled the religious groups.

Killing Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi certainly helped the Islamic fanatics in their countries. Saddam was the most secular Arab leader of his time. In fact, the semi-European nation of Turkey had a good deal of secularism over quite a few decades because of the good dictator named Mustafa Kemal Pasha. However, democracy has brought Islamic fanatics to power in Turkey.

However, civilization of humans by dictatorial forces cannot last; it has to happen via people thinking with reason and giving up religious, traditional and societal injustice, hatred and barbarity. That is why I think Islamic fanaticism must be tackled with honesty and intellect of humanists, as opposed to guns and bombs of powerful nations.

Next question, Saudi not included. Do you think dictators like Saddam was sort of a puppet or front man for U.S. interests? That we were sort of a quasi-dictator that wanted to keep our hands clean?
 
Tidbit, there may be one exception, Ancient Egypt. Where the dictatorial forces were religion and the goal was to keep the people happy by keeping greed away. Greed caused the earth to become unbalanced and wealth had to be redistributed about every twenty years.  But that is so far back in time that we can’t know all the facts.

I am not totally clear about what kind of relationship the USA had with Saddam Hussein before he invaded Kuwait. But I do not think Saddam was ever a puppet of the USA; although the US administrations probably liked his war with Iran. If he were a puppet serving US interests, he probably would have been alive and ruling Iraq now.

However, just like Islamic fanaticism was not created by the USA, the need for dictators in much of the Muslim-majority areas of the world is not due to the USA. In order for democracy to work for the well-being of people, the voting people need to have a sense of respect for human rights, human dignity, citizenship rights, etc. of all kinds of people.

In spite of all the criminal and inhumane acts that Saddam Hussein committed in Iraq, is that country any better now in terms of justice and peace for its citizens? Before we blame the West too much, don’t we need to realize that the rise of ISIS there was after most of the Western forces had left Iraq, leaving a democratic government?

[ Edited: 27 November 2016 08:07 AM by Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain ]
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Posted: 27 November 2016 09:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 27 November 2016 08:05 AM

I am not totally clear about what kind of relationship the USA had with Saddam Hussein before he invaded Kuwait. But I do not think Saddam was ever a puppet of the USA; although the US administrations probably liked his war with Iran. If he were a puppet serving US interests, he probably would have been alive and ruling Iraq now.

Totally agree with you.
 
This is my understanding of what happen between Iraq and Kauwait. For about eight years in the eighties Iraq was in battle with Iran. The U.S. was backing Iraq against Iran. And we were backing Israel who was bombing Iraq. Israel kind of upset our backing of Iraq. Iran saw an opportunity to invade and conquer Iraq. Iran was building up the invasion forces and by the time the NSA figure out that Iran was almost ready to attack it was too late to for us or Iraq to stop the invasion. So we gave Iraq the chemical weapons that we got from Israel and the ok to bomb Tehran. The Kurds were backing Iran with the hopes of getting their country back if Iran conquered Iraq. So Saddam used some of the chemical weapons on the Kurdish town of Halabjah killing thousands of people. Iran now knew for sure that Iraq had the chemical weapons and could back up the threat to bomb Tehran. The invasion was stopped. Then Saddam ask Rice if she had any trouble with him invading Kuwait. She said she didn’t. Saddam invaded Kuwait. The U.S. then responded. And we had to respond in a way which Saddam could not use the chemical weapons on our troops. We had to do a massive and very fast attack and not allow Saddam any planes in the air. Now the weapons of mass destructions that came from Israel by the United States to Iraq are the chemical weapons of mass destruction that we have been looking for. They are the ones we took to Iraq for the Iraq/Iran war. We can’t find them. So what do we do? Claim that there were never any weapons of mass destruction. Even if we found them, they came from Israel to Iraq by the United States. If those weapons were ever used in the Middle East and the public knew they came from Israel there would never be peace in the Middle East. At this point Iran knew that chemical weapons of mass destruction and nuclear weapons were part of Israel’s arsenal and they want to be able to stop Israel’s expansion. Thus we have the Iran nuclear program.

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Posted: 02 December 2016 12:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
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check out this data.
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2014/05/the_greatest_murder_machine_in_history.html


The Greatest Murder Machine in History

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Posted: 11 December 2016 07:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
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Bomb attack near Cairo Coptic cathedral kills at least 25

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38280627

Quote from this news article, “In February this year, a court sentenced three Christian teenagers to five years in prison for insulting Islam. The teenagers had appeared in a video, apparently mocking Muslim prayers.” Don’t these people, including the government of Egypt, need to leave the punishment for insulting Islam to Allah, the God of Islam? (Funny, the Arabic word for God, Allah, has become the word for the Muslim God, because Muslims all over the world insist on using the Arabic language for their holy imagination’s name!)

I think the civilized world needs to discourage anyone from being, or showing up to be, too much of a Muslim (or any other kind of religious person), and to encourage them to be humans with commons sense.

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Posted: 11 December 2016 02:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 11 December 2016 07:00 AM

Bomb attack near Cairo Coptic cathedral kills at least 25

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-38280627

Quote from this news article, “In February this year, a court sentenced three Christian teenagers to five years in prison for insulting Islam. The teenagers had appeared in a video, apparently mocking Muslim prayers.” Don’t these people, including the government of Egypt, need to leave the punishment for insulting Islam to Allah, the God of Islam? (Funny, the Arabic word for God, Allah, has become the word for the Muslim God, because Muslims all over the world insist on using the Arabic language for their holy imagination’s name!)

I think the civilized world needs to discourage anyone from being, or showing up to be, too much of a Muslim (or any other kind of religious person), and to encourage them to be humans with commons sense.

Unfortunately, “the rest of the civilized world” does not include the United States.

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[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

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Posted: 17 December 2016 10:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]
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In Pakistan, five girls were killed for having fun. Then the story took an even darker twist.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in-pakistan-five-girls-were-killed-for-having-fun-then-the-story-took-an-even-darker-twist/2016/12/16/f2adbd5e-c13a-11e6-92e8-c07f4f671da4_story.html?utm_term=.90b05312dc72

Does the West have anything to do with why these people are barbaric?

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Posted: 18 December 2016 04:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]
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Matthew 7-  …(4) How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ while there is still a beam in your own eye? (5) You hypocrite! First take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. (6) Do not give dogs what is holy; do not throw your pearls before swine. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.…

Martin Kelly, publisher of a nonviolence website:

We never see the smoke and the fire, we never smell the blood, we never see the terror in the eyes of the children, whose nightmares will now feature screaming missiles from unseen terrorists, known only as Americans.

The Targets

It’s become a commonplace to accuse the United States of choosing as its bombing targets only people of color, those of the Third World, or Muslims. But it must be remembered that one of the most sustained and ferocious American bombing campaigns was carried out against the people of the former Yugoslavia – white, European, Christians. The United States is an equal-opportunity bomber. The only qualifications for a country to become a target are:

It poses a sufficient obstacle to the desires of the American Empire;
It is virtually defenseless against aerial attack.

A terrorist is someone who has a bomb but doesn’t have an air force.

USA’s bombing list

Korea and China 1950-53 (Korean War)
Guatemala 1954
Indonesia 1958
Cuba 1959-1961
Guatemala 1960
Congo 1964
Laos 1964-73
Vietnam 1961-73
Cambodia 1969-70
Guatemala 1967-69
Grenada 1983
Lebanon 1983, 1984 (both Lebanese and Syrian targets)
Libya 1986
El Salvador 1980s
Nicaragua 1980s
Iran 1987
Panama 1989
Iraq 1991 (Persian Gulf War)
Kuwait 1991
Somalia 1993
Bosnia 1994, 1995
Sudan 1998
Afghanistan 1998
Yugoslavia 1999
Yemen 2002
Iraq 1991-2003 (US/UK on regular basis)
Iraq 2003-2015
Afghanistan 2001-2015
Pakistan 2007-2015
Somalia 2007-8, 2011
Yemen 2009, 2011
Libya 2011, 2015
Syria 2014-2015
Plus

Iran, April 2003 – hit by US missiles during bombing of Iraq, killing at least one person

Pakistan, 2002-03 – bombed by US planes several times as part of combat against the Taliban and other opponents of the US occupation of Afghanistan

China, 1999 – its heavily bombed embassy in Belgrade is legally Chinese territory, and it appears rather certain that the bombing was no accident (see chapter 25 of Rogue State)

France, 1986 – After the French government refused the use of its air space to US warplanes headed for a bombing raid on Libya, the planes were forced to take another, longer route; when they reached Libya they bombed so close to the French embassy that the building was damaged and all communication links knocked out.

Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, May 13, 1985 – A bomb dropped by a police helicopter burned down an entire block, some 60 homes destroyed, 11 dead, including several small children. The police, the mayor’s office, and the FBI were all involved in this effort to evict a black organization called MOVE from the house they lived in.

https://williamblum.org/chapters/rogue-state/united-states-bombings-of-other-countries

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Posted: 18 December 2016 05:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]
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Cherry Picking the latest atrocity doesn’t change the history of idiot mistakes that directly created that irreparable nightmare.(based on the choices made by tunnel-visioned self-interest-based calculations by a bunch of Dunning-Kruger patients, don’t you know)
Now we got the Trump Oligarch in charge, that should be interesting, (in the curse sense of the word)

1971 India Pakistan War: Role of Russia, China, America and BritainBy Sanskar Shrivastava on October 30, 2011
(http://www) theworldreporter(dot)com/2011/10/1971-india-pakistan-war-role-of-russia(dot)html

US and China Connection, A Little Known Fact
(All Excerpts and Sources from 929 page long Volume XI of the Foreign Relations of the United States)

US sympathized with Pakistan, because of various reasons. Among them two reasons were that: firstly, Pakistan belonged to American led military Pact, CENTO and SEATO; secondly, US believed any victory of India will be considered as the expansion of Soviet influence in the parts gained by India with the victory, as it was believed to be a pro Soviet nation, even though they were non aligned.

onday, July 26, 2010
How America Destroyed the Very Afghanistan We Say We Want to Create
http://the-mound-of-sound.blogspot(dot)com/2010/07/how-america-destroyed-very-afghanistan.html

If there was ever a dark farce it’s been the West’s meddling in Afghanistan.  You know the Afghanistan our leaders told us we were fighting to establish?  It actually existed, in the 1980’s, until Washington decided to destroy it.  Never heard that one?  Think it can’t be so?  Think again.

You don’t hear about it.  Even written, historical references to what happened are difficult to track down.  Much of the factual background is disorganized, scattered, and buried in self-serving propaganda - but it’s there.  It’s a story that I’ve been putting together, bit by bit, for years and, as I progressed, it became increasingly obvious why this narrative has been buried by our political and military elites.

The Afghanistan we dream of truly existed.  Then we intervened to destroy it.  And in putting it down we ensured that country would remain shackled to fundamentalist warlords for decades, probably many generations to come.

The history of this debacle is well chronicled by Michael Parenti in Afghanistan, Another Untold Story.  I’ve copied it in its eye-opening entirety here for your convenience.  Read it and ask yourself how we came to be so grossly misled and manipulated?

and it just seems to get more outlandish all the time   downer

I had trouble with the URL’s so replace the dots and it should connect fine.

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Posted: 18 December 2016 06:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 17 December 2016 10:13 PM

In Pakistan, five girls were killed for having fun. Then the story took an even darker twist.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/in-pakistan-five-girls-were-killed-for-having-fun-then-the-story-took-an-even-darker-twist/2016/12/16/f2adbd5e-c13a-11e6-92e8-c07f4f671da4_story.html?utm_term=.90b05312dc72

Does the West have anything to do with why these people are barbaric?

I don’t know Sam. How could the West have anything to do with it?
My guess would be Islam and the rampant drug use in those places.
Most of those Middle Eastern and Near Asian countries have a systemic heroin/opium problem.

I’m also told that many areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan for example have cultural norms that would absolutely shock
most Westerners.
Were talking about places that find it acceptable to kill one’s daughter or gang rape youth.

Sometimes when we overturn a rock and look underneath we wish we would have just left that stone unturned.

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Posted: 18 December 2016 07:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]
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VYAZMA - 18 December 2016 06:53 AM

Sometimes when we overturn a rock and look underneath we wish we would have just left that stone unturned.

I agree. We certainly should not promote democracy for barbarians; that should be done only after they become civilized to a reasonable extent.

[ Edited: 18 December 2016 08:04 AM by Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain ]
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