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Are they really due to Western foreign policies?
Posted: 20 January 2017 08:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 91 ]
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Sam, find a withering little plant, spend lots of time nurturing it back to health, add extra fertilize to supersize it, transplant shots with loving care into reinvigorated fields.

Who’s responsible for the final product?  Plant or the gardner?

You seem to be desperately trying to cling to western innocence - that’s why I have such a low regard for your utterances.
It’s your decidedly one-sidedness. 

Until you grow up and are able to acknowledge and understand how much western imperialism and arrogant disregard for the countries,
their peoples and their self-interests while ruthlessly exploiting whatever we found of value and returning little beyond an endless supplies of weapons
that we sell to pretty near anyone - if not directly, you’ll be put in touch with someone who can finesse arrangements.

Look there for understanding what’s driven the modern descent into violence,
(which just may be on the edge of a destructive up turn now that we have a fantasists in the White House)
before you get all uppity about the snot-nosed kids who’ve had enough of being shat on - and are pathetically fighting back. 
It’s human nature.

[ Edited: 20 January 2017 08:18 AM by citizenschallenge.pm ]
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Posted: 20 January 2017 02:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 92 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 20 January 2017 08:14 AM

Sam, find a withering little plant, spend lots of time nurturing it back to health, add extra fertilize to supersize it, transplant shots with loving care into reinvigorated fields.

Who’s responsible for the final product?  Plant or the gardner?

The gardener. However, childhood and long-term brainwash with religion is no ‘withering plant’; nor is the West the principal nurturer (gardener) of Islamic idiocy and fanaticism.

Here is a news item for you and others in this forum: http://www.newagebd.net/article/1790/hindu-houses-temples-attacked-in-bbaria

The accusation against Rasaraj has been found to be false by the police later. False or true, the accusation was against only one person; but the Islamic sentimental and fanatic mobs went on a rampage on the whole Hindu community there. I do not see any Western role there. Do you?

Call me politically incorrect, but I think the West would be foolish if they are not careful about admitting this kind of religious (Islamic) sentimental people into their countries.

[ Edited: 20 January 2017 02:12 PM by Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain ]
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Posted: 22 January 2017 08:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 93 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 20 January 2017 02:10 PM

Call me politically incorrect, but I think the West would be foolish if they are not careful about admitting this kind of religious (Islamic) sentimental people into their countries.

Every bit as foolish as not recognizing the hateful poison within our own tribe.
er religion

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Posted: 22 January 2017 09:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 94 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 20 January 2017 02:10 PM

Here is a news item for you and others in this forum: http://www.newagebd.net/article/1790/hindu-houses-temples-attacked-in-bbaria

Well that was, was, what?
It’s got nothing to offer in regard to your thesis.
It’s not much better than blaming the cow that got out of the barn for eating your grass, even though you’re the one that left the door open.
Although I imagine there were all sorts of local factors that led to this particular violence.  People are too easily swayed towards violence, don’t you think?

America’s Devil’s Game with Extremist Islam
A Timeline of US-Cold War Politics and the Rise of Militant Islamism
MELANIE COLBURNJANUARY/FEBRUARY 2006
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2006/01/americas-devils-game-extremist-islam

It is often difficult to trace the history of the United States’ involvement with—and responsibility for—the evolution of radical Islamism around the world; many of the CIA’s activities in support of Islamist groups were often covert, and a great deal of misinformation exists. Robert Dreyfuss’ new book, Devil’s Game: How the United States Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam, is an attempt at a comprehensive overview of this story, recounting how the CIA, guided by the belief that radical Islamist forces could act as a bulwark against communism, helped fuel the rise of political Islam and militant fundamentalism in the Middle East and Central Asia. Below is a timeline of major events in the U.S. government’s 70-year flirtation with and support for the militant forces that would, in the late 1990s and on September 11, 2001, come back to haunt the United States.

US Sponsored “Islamic Fundamentalism”: The Roots of the US-Wahhabi Alliance
By Benjamin Schett
Global Research, September 07, 2012
http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-sponsored-islamic-fundamentalism-the-roots-of-the-us-wahhabi-alliance/5303558

The alliance between the United States and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia helped spread the ideology of fundamentalist Sunni Islam all over the globe. The majority of its victims are not citizens of Western countries, but citizens of countries that U.S. elites consider a threat to their economic and geopolitical interests. Many victims of Sunni extremism (often called Wahhabism or Salafism[1]) are in fact Muslims (often with a secular leftist or nationalist political background), moderate Sunni or members of Shiʿite Islamic faith.

This article addresses the history of Wahhabi fundamentalism and the examples of Afghanistan in the 80s, as well as the current situation in Syria. Both cases illustrate America’s responsibility for the destruction of secular, socially progressive societies in the Islamic world and elsewhere.

The Origins of Wahhabism ... {some informative history here}

How the West used radical Islam and unleashed global terror
20 August 2016 RAKESH KRISHNAN SIMHA, SPECIALLY FOR RIR
http://in.rbth.com/blogs/stranger_than_fiction/2016/08/20/how-the-west-used-radical-islam-and-unleashed-global-terror_622551

If you are outraged by the spate of terror attacks that have occurred in Europe, Asia and the Middle East, you are entirely justified. However, do not forget that it is western policies in the Middle East that created the conditions for the growth of these extremists.

Before the 2003 US invasion of Iraq there was no al-Qaeda or ISIS. President Saddam Hussein was the enemy of radical Islamists and in his eyes Osama bin Laden was a “zealot”.

Decades prior to Iraq’s descent into chaos, it was Afghanistan that became a focal point for Islamic mercenaries from around the world. It was when the West started destabilising Afghanistan – in order to bait the Soviets – that the Mujahidin, and its later version the Taliban, were born. Afghanistan used to be a country where women wore skirts and it was considered normal, but today Afghan girls are shot dead for going to school or merely talking to boys.

This has happened because western governments – led by the United States – have destabilised secular nationalist leaders, while cosying up to fundamentalist groups. From the extremist Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia to the Egyptian cult of the Muslim Brotherhood, western nations have backed fundamentalist forces at the expense of nationalist Muslims.

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Posted: 22 January 2017 09:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 95 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 20 January 2017 02:10 PM

long-term brainwash with religion is no ‘withering plant’ (not after all the infusions its received); nor is the West the principal nurturer (gardener) of Islamic idiocy and fanaticism.

Just the financiers, that’s why it’s got such a tendency to blow up in our own faces.  But then we get the march of apologists such as yourself, who are too busy peddling
their position, to have any time or interest in learning about the ‘rest of the story.’

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Posted: 25 January 2017 07:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 96 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 22 January 2017 09:38 AM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 20 January 2017 02:10 PM

long-term brainwash with religion is no ‘withering plant’ (not after all the infusions its received); nor is the West the principal nurturer (gardener) of Islamic idiocy and fanaticism.

Just the financiers, that’s why it’s got such a tendency to blow up in our own faces.  But then we get the march of apologists such as yourself, who are too busy peddling
their position, to have any time or interest in learning about the ‘rest of the story.’

One reason why I post news items from some otherwise remote places on Earth is that the religious brainwash in many of those places are not due to any ‘infusion’. While financiers like the Saudis have helped Islamic fanaticism and terrorism in many places, the root cause of fanaticism and atrocities are none other than the religion itself. That is why it is critical to have more rational people among those that have grown up to think themselves as Muslims. It should be like the way Christians have been turing into atheists and agnostics in the West.

I am confused about your ‘apologists such as yourself’ comment. Better not talk about me, talk about the subject of the discussion. (I am surely not interested in talking about any individual in this forum.)

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Posted: 03 February 2017 05:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 97 ]
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Recently there was another case of arresting a non-Muslim in Bangladesh for ‘insulting Islam’. http://www.thedailystar.net/backpage/vendor-held-insulting-islam-1355404

Bangladeshi Muslims are considered moderate by the standards of their co-religionists in many other parts of the world. But Bangladesh has laws to punish ‘insulting Islam’.

Most Muslim-majority countries have similar or harsher laws. Here are two other news items from two so-called moderate Muslim-majority countries.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37151890

http://www.logospost.com/home/2016/12/27/indonesia-president-facing-charges-over-insulting-islam

I am getting sick of the nonsense of ‘insulting Islam’. Can’t the Muslims leave the ‘insults on Islam’ to be punished by their almighty Allah?

I think countries that care about human and citizenship rights of people irrespective of religious affiliations should give preference to immigration-seekers that are persecuted based upon their religion in their native country. The USA should generally give the Christians and the Yazidis of Syria preference over the Muslims from that country; although some individual cases of Muslims could get as much preference because of their individual cases of persecution. The Democratic Party, claiming to be more humane, should have been better at that than what Donald Trump seems to be trying to do now.

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Posted: 16 February 2017 06:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 98 ]
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Suicide attack on Pakistani shrine kills 72

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-pakistan-blast-idUSKBN15V233

Islamic State has claimed responsibility for this. However, as this news article has concluded: “Most of Pakistan’s myriad radical Sunni militant groups - including the Pakistani Taliban’s various factions and Islamic State loyalists - despise Sufis, Shi’ite Muslims and other religious minorities as heretics.” The reality is also that, while most of the so-called moderate Muslims are human enough to not kill other people and themselves so senselessly, they do consider the Sufi and Shia Muslims as heretics.

The prime minister of Pakistan says, “But we can’t let these events divide us, or scare us. We must stand united in this struggle for the Pakistani identity, and universal humanity.” But his nation has extremely poor records on human rights, especially for religious minorities. While people like him talk insincerely about unity, the religious minorities keep getting brutalized and leaving their ancestral homeland of centuries.

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Posted: 20 February 2017 07:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 99 ]
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Seeing a disaster slowly unfolds in front of my eyes… I have to say yes…

The Islamic world only have itself to blame for nurturing this idiocy, but it won’t turn into a full-blown disaster such as a civil war as long as the west doesn’t intervene.

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Posted: 26 February 2017 07:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 100 ]
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samyaza - 20 February 2017 07:11 PM

Seeing a disaster slowly unfolds in front of my eyes… I have to say yes…

The Islamic world only have itself to blame for nurturing this idiocy, but it won’t turn into a full-blown disaster such as a civil war as long as the west doesn’t intervene.

Islamic idiocy is not likely to cause a civil war kind of situation in most of the West anytime soon; although UK, France and Germany could be there in a number of decades.

However, it has been a disaster in many other parts of the world. Examples: 1) Persia (Iran) has a rich history involving non-Muslims, but it is now an Islamic state with the non-Muslims totally marginalized, with their percentage in the population being less than 1 in 2011. 2) Due to systematic hatred and atrocities committed/supported/tolerated by Muslim-ruled governments, the percentage of non-Muslims in Pakistan has gone down from ~23 in 1947 to less than 4 in 2010. 3) Because of the same reasons, the percentage of non-Muslims in Bangladesh has gone down from ~35% in 1947 to less than 11% in 2013. (The recent year numbers are taken from the CIA World Factbooks on these countries.)

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Posted: 27 February 2017 06:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 101 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 26 February 2017 07:30 AM
samyaza - 20 February 2017 07:11 PM

Seeing a disaster slowly unfolds in front of my eyes… I have to say yes…

The Islamic world only have itself to blame for nurturing this idiocy, but it won’t turn into a full-blown disaster such as a civil war as long as the west doesn’t intervene.

Islamic idiocy is not likely to cause a civil war kind of situation in most of the West anytime soon; although UK, France and Germany could be there in a number of decades.

However, it has been a disaster in many other parts of the world. Examples: 1) Persia (Iran) has a rich history involving non-Muslims, but it is now an Islamic state with the non-Muslims totally marginalized, with their percentage in the population being less than 1 in 2011. 2) Due to systematic hatred and atrocities committed/supported/tolerated by Muslim-ruled governments, the percentage of non-Muslims in Pakistan has gone down from ~23 in 1947 to less than 4 in 2010. 3) Because of the same reasons, the percentage of non-Muslims in Bangladesh has gone down from ~35% in 1947 to less than 11% in 2013. (The recent year numbers are taken from the CIA World Factbooks on these countries.)

I’m not talking about the West. I’m talking about moderately secular but majority Muslims nations not too different from Syria. When the secular forces are as strong as the islamist ones, it won’t simply end with the persecution of religious minorities. It would end with a civil war between the secular government and the islamists who are financially backed by the west.

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Posted: 01 March 2017 08:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 102 ]
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samyaza - 27 February 2017 06:19 AM

I’m not talking about the West. I’m talking about moderately secular but majority Muslims nations not too different from Syria. When the secular forces are as strong as the islamist ones, it won’t simply end with the persecution of religious minorities. It would end with a civil war between the secular government and the islamists who are financially backed by the west.

There is practically no secular government in any Muslim-majority country of the world. So, I would not expect the secular forces in any Muslim-majority country to be able to defeat the Islamic fanatics any time soon. Here is a news report where there is no Western incentive for Muslims to be Islamic fanatics. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39112840

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Posted: 04 March 2017 06:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 103 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 01 March 2017 08:02 PM

There is practically no secular government in any Muslim-majority country of the world. So, I would not expect the secular forces in any Muslim-majority country to be able to defeat the Islamic fanatics any time soon. Here is a news report where there is no Western incentive for Muslims to be Islamic fanatics. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39112840

How do you know that? It seems your opinion on Muslims is simply based on the news you get from the media.

There are some secular majority Muslim nations. While it’s not what I would call western secularism where religion doesn’t exist in the public space, the constitution is secular. A large part of the society believe in the separation of religion and state. They refused to be identified as an Islamic nation, because they aren’t. The women are far more empowered than the average US Evangelical Christians. Most of the women don’t wear hijab. It’s only after the spread of Wahhabism things suddenly go downhill.

[ Edited: 04 March 2017 06:18 AM by samyaza ]
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Posted: 04 March 2017 08:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 104 ]
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samyaza - 04 March 2017 06:06 AM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 01 March 2017 08:02 PM

There is practically no secular government in any Muslim-majority country of the world. So, I would not expect the secular forces in any Muslim-majority country to be able to defeat the Islamic fanatics any time soon. Here is a news report where there is no Western incentive for Muslims to be Islamic fanatics. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39112840

How do you know that? It seems your opinion on Muslims is simply based on the news you get from the media.

There are some secular majority Muslim nations. While it’s not what I would call western secularism where religion doesn’t exist in the public space, the constitution is secular. A large part of the society believe in the separation of religion and state. They refused to be identified as an Islamic nation, because they aren’t. The women are far more empowered than the average US Evangelical Christians. Most of the women don’t wear hijab. It’s only after the spread of Wahhabism things suddenly go downhill.

Samyaza, thank you for weighting it.  It’s nice to get a little counter balance to Sam’s imagination.

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Posted: 05 March 2017 02:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 105 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 04 March 2017 08:31 AM
samyaza - 04 March 2017 06:06 AM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 01 March 2017 08:02 PM

There is practically no secular government in any Muslim-majority country of the world. So, I would not expect the secular forces in any Muslim-majority country to be able to defeat the Islamic fanatics any time soon. Here is a news report where there is no Western incentive for Muslims to be Islamic fanatics. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39112840

How do you know that? It seems your opinion on Muslims is simply based on the news you get from the media.

There are some secular majority Muslim nations. While it’s not what I would call western secularism where religion doesn’t exist in the public space, the constitution is secular. A large part of the society believe in the separation of religion and state. They refused to be identified as an Islamic nation, because they aren’t. The women are far more empowered than the average US Evangelical Christians. Most of the women don’t wear hijab. It’s only after the spread of Wahhabism things suddenly go downhill.

Samyaza, thank you for weighting it.  It’s nice to get a little counter balance to Sam’s imagination.

My friends, I make my judgments mostly based upon news in the media such as Reuters and BBC, surveys done by organizations like the Pew Research Center, information found in the CIA World Factbooks, and my own personal experience; not upon imaginations.

In this forum, I have pointed out that even Indonesia and Malaysia have laws to punish apostasy. The fact that they do not identify themselves as Islamic nations is not enough to call them anything like champions of human rights irrespective of religious affiliations or lack thereof.

Samyaza, do you know for fact that Wahhabism is contrary to the Koran and Hadits, the books of Islam? Here is a link for a good translation of the Koran; and you might want to check it out for things that you heard about Islam, but did not actually know. http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/

However, it really does not matter what the so-called holy books of religions contain; what really matters is what people do and accept being done, how much of the nonsense, injustice, hatred and atrocities in the religious books people actually believe in and practice.

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