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Why should a person get to define their gender?
Posted: 10 April 2017 07:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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DarronS - 10 April 2017 06:26 PM

Practice some critical thinking Beltane. Construct an argument explaining why it is acceptable to discriminate against transgender people.

Who said anything about discrimination. I’m talking about non-association. Two different things.

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Posted: 10 April 2017 07:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Asking for a coherent argument is not an ad hominem attack.

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You cannot have a rational discussion with someone who holds irrational beliefs.

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Posted: 10 April 2017 08:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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So if I mix in some buzz words like insinuating that you’re a bigot because I disagree with you, start talking about Indians, parking lots, and Super Bowl, only then are we having a coherent argument?

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Posted: 11 April 2017 06:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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The parking lots and Super Bowls comments was a literary reference. Pretty obscure, I admit, but if you think about it Europeans committed deliberate genocide because they believed themselves superior to the native peoples who occupied the Americas. This bigotry survives into the 21st Century. I brought up the Native Americans because many tribes recognized five to six sexes, and those who lived no traditional sexual roles were not only accepted but revered.

I cannot think of any ethical theory that justifies telling transgender people how they can live or holding them in even the mildest contempt. If you or Beltane can offer an ethical argument for denying transgender people the same rights afforded the rest of society I would be interested in discussing this subject. Writing off transgender people as best avoided and mentally ill isn’t a coherent argument.

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Posted: 11 April 2017 06:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Beltane - 10 April 2017 07:19 PM
DarronS - 10 April 2017 06:26 PM

Practice some critical thinking Beltane. Construct an argument explaining why it is acceptable to discriminate against transgender people.

Who said anything about discrimination. I’m talking about non-association. Two different things.

Oh yeah. Separate but equal. Got ya.

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Posted: 11 April 2017 06:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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DarronS - 11 April 2017 06:45 AM

The parking lots and Super Bowls comments was a literary reference. Pretty obscure, I admit, but if you think about it Europeans committed deliberate genocide because they believed themselves superior to the native peoples who occupied the Americas. This bigotry survives into the 21st Century. I brought up the Native Americans because many tribes recognized five to six sexes, and those who lived no traditional sexual roles were not only accepted but revered.

Wow that’s a stretch. If we really think about it we can make the connection?
Europeans, Genocide, Native Americans…..transgendered?

Oh yeah. That makes sense!
The Native Americans also kept slaves, practiced animism, human sacrifices and had no written language Darron. Just to name a few things.
Is all that stuff cool too? Because the Indians did it?

What a ridiculous argument on multiple levels.

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Posted: 12 April 2017 07:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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ExMachina - 10 April 2017 08:38 AM

Too many people out today want to use dumb labels like “BIGOT” to scare everyone off. The joke is, these people have no idea what the word bigot even means. It’s such a buzz word right now that the people who are crying the word are actually being bigots themselves. XDDD

Hmmm, is that anything like the way you are using the word “bigot” against Liberals?  When did that become the topic under discussion?  I thought we were talking about transgenders, not Liberalism.

TG is not an easy topic to discuss, and there’s an elephant in the room that modern Liberalism wants to completely ignore. You can say your gender is a man, but it doesn’t mean you’re physically a man, and vice verse.

Not ignoring it at all.  As Lois pointed out (and everyone but me apparently ignored) “gender” refers to words, not sex.

Look at it this way—male and female are physical traits, describing the actual hardware you are born with.  Masculine and feminine are more like the sexual roles we play, and we all know that sexual roles are not as hard and fast as they used to be.  In fact “masculine” and “feminine” are just our cultural conventions and have no basis in biology anyway.  Transgenders just come out say what we all know, that each of us is a mixture of masculine and feminine traits.  What difference does it make what organs you have under your pants, I mean, in everyday contact?

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Posted: 12 April 2017 07:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Advocatus - 12 April 2017 07:00 AM

Look at it this way—male and female are physical traits

They’re also psychological, biological and chemical traits.

Masculine and feminine are more like the sexual roles we play,

Oh is that what it is? It’s just simply like a play. Like pretend?

Transgenderism is a disorder. Just like other forms of dysphoria and psychological identity conflicts.
You don’t get to just explain it away like your talking to a 4th grader here.

In fact “masculine” and “feminine” are just our cultural conventions and have no basis in biology anyway

LOL  You just make up your own “science” universe now is that it?

Transgenders just come out say what we all know, that each of us is a mixture of masculine and feminine traits.  What difference does it make what organs you have under your pants, I mean, in everyday contact?

Transgenderism, as well as lot’s of other psychological disorders that are more prevalent in these late times are most likely
a symptom of various stresses upon societies caused by overpopulation.
That’s most likely the answer.

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Posted: 12 April 2017 07:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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“Hmmm, is that anything like the way you are using the word “bigot” against Liberals?  When did that become the topic under discussion?  I thought we were talking about transgenders, not Liberalism.”


Seriously people here need to know what a bigot is. It’s an intolerance of other peoples views. Just because I disagree doesn’t make me a bigot. If I go out, and refuse to let people express their point, attack them, or berate them on every corner for having different views, then that would make me a bigot. This is EXACTLY what modern liberals have been doing in the past two years. (I’m being conservative with my numbers.

In fact “masculine” and “feminine” are just our cultural conventions and have no basis in biology anyway. 

My brain just farted a little when I read this.

What difference does it make what organs you have under your pants, I mean, in everyday contact?

So you wouldn’t mind me being a 46 year old guy going into the little girls room to take a piss? Maybe I don’t look the role, but I can certainly say that the reason I was in there was because I get to say I’m a woman inside. Also, you’re missing my other point. Gender is now being recognized as non-binary. Now we can to redefine gender all together. There are about (example. Hirs, Fairy, Queer). What’s being pushed now is the idea that it’s all a construct of the mind, and that gender has no standard that everyone can agree upon, but that it’s a completely subjective title.

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Posted: 12 April 2017 07:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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I have to say that this spam filter makes me want to scream!

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Posted: 12 April 2017 08:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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ExMachina - 12 April 2017 07:55 AM

What’s being pushed now is the idea that it’s all a construct of the mind, and that gender has no standard that everyone can agree upon, but that it’s a completely subjective title.

Exactly. And when science becomes twisted and distorted to further an ideological cause, that’s when you have to get off the train.
That’s when alarm bells start going off.

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Posted: 12 April 2017 10:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Very interesting thread. IMHO what we’re all suffering from is anti-Conservatism Syndrome. The Cons have been so divisive and well just plains aholes ever since Reagan came to town that it’s hard to have civil thoughts and differences of opinion. I know I feel it. I don’t want to admit even for a second that the effin Righties have a legit idea, and when I express my own opinion, I’m sick and tired of being nice about it only to get beat on the head by some Con. As this is showing itself in this thread. The underlying idea seems to be gender is turning out to be a fluid thing. And that’s very hard to rectify with our current culture. But maybe there’s nothing to it. In 50 years all bathrooms for example might be unisex (look even that term is baked into our culture). Bathrooms will be unigendered. We won’t think of a middle aged man going into a little girls bathroom as a sexually perverse thing because sex crimes will have been dealt with. Just speculating. Point being, I don’t think anyone’s being a bigot here, it’s just so hard to discuss in a civil manner something that has been tied into a complete knot.

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Posted: 12 April 2017 11:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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CuthbertJ - 12 April 2017 10:32 AM

Very interesting thread. IMHO what we’re all suffering from is anti-Conservatism Syndrome. The Cons have been so divisive and well just plains aholes ever since Reagan came to town that it’s hard to have civil thoughts and differences of opinion. I know I feel it. I don’t want to admit even for a second that the effin Righties have a legit idea, and when I express my own opinion, I’m sick and tired of being nice about it only to get beat on the head by some Con. As this is showing itself in this thread. The underlying idea seems to be gender is turning out to be a fluid thing. And that’s very hard to rectify with our current culture. But maybe there’s nothing to it. In 50 years all bathrooms for example might be unisex (look even that term is baked into our culture). Bathrooms will be unigendered. We won’t think of a middle aged man going into a little girls bathroom as a sexually perverse thing because sex crimes will have been dealt with. Just speculating. Point being, I don’t think anyone’s being a bigot here, it’s just so hard to discuss in a civil manner something that has been tied into a complete knot.

I agree that it is a complex topic, and a unisex bathroom will be the unfortunate result of all this. Here’s where it all goes full retard.

* A guy goes out in a dress in the red carpet. He has a full beard with hairy legs/ arms and complains that he wasn’t fully accepted as being a woman. Not that anyone said anything, but that people seemed a bit off taken by the whole situation. I’m all for a person living their life how they want, but your rights end where others begin. Other people don’t have to conform to your delusions.

* Thomas Beatie is the first man to get pregnant. Not that she was ever a man to begin with, but identified herself as a man. This made MAJOR headlines as though a man actually had a baby, and she received liberal praises from around the world.

* Men do not belong in womens sports, period. I don’t care if you’re taking hormones, or have lopped of parts of your body to become a “woman”. Genetically you’re a male, and there’s nothing you can do about that. The problem with modern liberal thinking is they like to sell the lie that you can become ANYTHING you want.

The list is only getting bigger as time goes by. I’m a liberal at heart. I believe in a progressive society that adapts to better the direction of our society, but I can’t stand to see what liberalism has become, so I use the term modern liberalism to distinguish what was, and what has become.

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Posted: 12 April 2017 11:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Don’t forget that there is strong lobbying taking place ensuring that this is being taught to children in school.
Teaching children that this kind of dysfunction is normal.

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Posted: 12 April 2017 11:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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VYAZMA - 12 April 2017 11:27 AM

Don’t forget that there is strong lobbying taking place ensuring that this is being taught to children in school.
Teaching children that this kind of dysfunction is normal.

If you haven’t already done it, you should check out Professor Jordan Peterson. He’s a clinical Psychologist who refused to accept other people gender pronouns, and ended up being berated by his peer, the LGB(etc) and a slew of other groups,. He also for the first time was refused grant funding by the college with all now seem to be ultra leftist. The environment on the college campuses has become real aggressive in that you have to accept their ideology lest you be yelled at as a bigot (such irony), or in many cases physically attacked.

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