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The basic income discussion
Posted: 09 April 2017 02:27 PM   [ Ignore ]
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What’s your take on a basic income?

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Posted: 09 April 2017 02:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Unrealistic in every way.

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Posted: 10 April 2017 07:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I think the Partial Basic Income sounds like a swell idea.  People who already have a comfortable income from other sources don’t need it.

I know the argument—“society doesn’t owe anyone a living”.  But I think it does.  When we were living off the land, farming and hunter-gathering, that might have been true.  But today society is too specialized.  You need skills to get a job, and some people, try as they might, simply can’t acquire the needed skills.  And we’ve seen it time and time again—if people can’t find jobs, they will become criminals, burglars, drug dealers.  Isn’t that a drain on society?  So I think that society Does owe everyone a living.

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Posted: 10 April 2017 05:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Advocatus - 10 April 2017 07:05 AM

I think the Partial Basic Income sounds like a swell idea.  People who already have a comfortable income from other sources don’t need it.

I know the argument—“society doesn’t owe anyone a living”.  But I think it does.  When we were living off the land, farming and hunter-gathering, that might have been true.  But today society is too specialized.  You need skills to get a job, and some people, try as they might, simply can’t acquire the needed skills.  And we’ve seen it time and time again—if people can’t find jobs, they will become criminals, burglars, drug dealers.  Isn’t that a drain on society?  So I think that society Does owe everyone a living.

Where’s the money going to come from? Not to mention handing out money creates a society of dysfunctional babies.

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Posted: 10 April 2017 05:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Beltane - 10 April 2017 05:00 PM
Advocatus - 10 April 2017 07:05 AM

I think the Partial Basic Income sounds like a swell idea.  People who already have a comfortable income from other sources don’t need it.

I know the argument—“society doesn’t owe anyone a living”.  But I think it does.  When we were living off the land, farming and hunter-gathering, that might have been true.  But today society is too specialized.  You need skills to get a job, and some people, try as they might, simply can’t acquire the needed skills.  And we’ve seen it time and time again—if people can’t find jobs, they will become criminals, burglars, drug dealers.  Isn’t that a drain on society?  So I think that society Does owe everyone a living.

Where’s the money going to come from? Not to mention handing out money creates a society of dysfunctional babies.

I tend to agree with you on this. In theory it sounds like it could do some good, but ultimately would end up being just another welfare system that gets exploited to all hell. Maybe it’d be better to have a system where the very basic of necessities are met. (i.e. Food/ Water)

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Posted: 11 April 2017 03:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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ExMachina - 10 April 2017 05:47 PM

I tend to agree with you on this. In theory it sounds like it could do some good, but ultimately would end up being just another welfare system that gets exploited to all hell. Maybe it’d be better to have a system where the very basic of necessities are met. (i.e. Food/ Water)

The idea of a basic income is that everyone gets the same amount and people can do whatever they want with it, so technically it can’t really be exploited.

To support people with basic necessities it would be easier to just give them a (low) amount of money and they buy them themselves. That would mean much less overhead for the government.

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Posted: 11 April 2017 03:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Rutner - 11 April 2017 03:25 PM
ExMachina - 10 April 2017 05:47 PM

I tend to agree with you on this. In theory it sounds like it could do some good, but ultimately would end up being just another welfare system that gets exploited to all hell. Maybe it’d be better to have a system where the very basic of necessities are met. (i.e. Food/ Water)

The idea of a basic income is that everyone gets the same amount and people can do whatever they want with it, so technically it can’t really be exploited.

To support people with basic necessities it would be easier to just give them a (low) amount of money and they buy them themselves. That would mean much less overhead for the government.

This is where I tend to lean more on th Liberal side. Most of your staunch conservatives i know would cry wealth redistribution on a topic like this without considering the bottom line costs/benifits of thing like this. I honeslty don’t know enough about this to really have a set opinion yet, but it certainly does make for an interesting discussion.

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Posted: 11 April 2017 04:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Like Beltane asked above, where is the money going to come from?
There are not enough taxes being levied to go around for what we already have budgeted.

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Posted: 11 April 2017 05:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Avoiding VYAZMA and Beltane for the moment….

I went out to dinner with a doctor the other night, which was more than the usual idiotic conversation about either baseball or gluten. We got on to this idea that free health care is nice, it goes with the basic value of taking care of each other, but really, shouldn’t we have free food first? The idea that you have to market food like you market sun glasses or video games is really pretty insane when you think about it. Your market is limited by the number of calories a person can consume. To increase profits you encourage obesity and over population. That we have an economic system where this makes sense, makes no sense at all. And worse, we treat that people who do most of the work like crap. Farmers have to be multiply skilled, and we place all the risk on their shoulders for something that is often at the whims of nature.

I don’t even think you need to break capitalism to fix it. Just make the job of farming easier. Don’t tie a person to the land. Classify the land “farm”, just like we now do with “timber”. And give them a steady income, just like the guy who makes the same wage, if the restaurant is busy or not. Let some farm land go fallow, like humans have done since forever, and move the farmers to where production is best. And no one gets to profit off of this. Grocery stories are 501c3. Period.

But no, we got people who think this makes people lazy. Having someone control my food supply is supposed to motivate me?

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Posted: 11 April 2017 06:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Lausten - 11 April 2017 05:37 PM

Avoiding VYAZMA and Beltane for the moment….

I went out to dinner with a doctor the other night, which was more than the usual idiotic conversation about either baseball or gluten. We got on to this idea that free health care is nice, it goes with the basic value of taking care of each other, but really, shouldn’t we have free food first? The idea that you have to market food like you market sun glasses or video games is really pretty insane when you think about it. Your market is limited by the number of calories a person can consume. To increase profits you encourage obesity and over population. That we have an economic system where this makes sense, makes no sense at all. And worse, we treat that people who do most of the work like crap. Farmers have to be multiply skilled, and we place all the risk on their shoulders for something that is often at the whims of nature.

I don’t even think you need to break capitalism to fix it. Just make the job of farming easier. Don’t tie a person to the land. Classify the land “farm”, just like we now do with “timber”. And give them a steady income, just like the guy who makes the same wage, if the restaurant is busy or not. Let some farm land go fallow, like humans have done since forever, and move the farmers to where production is best. And no one gets to profit off of this. Grocery stories are 501c3. Period.

But no, we got people who think this makes people lazy. Having someone control my food supply is supposed to motivate me?

Free food. Another great impossible idea.

I think the whole world should get together and have a big group hug, and everyone can tickle each other until we create utopia.

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Posted: 11 April 2017 07:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Nah, let’s do it your way and fight it out until only the stupid are left standing

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Posted: 11 April 2017 07:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Lausten - 11 April 2017 07:22 PM

Nah, let’s do it your way and fight it out until only the stupid are left standing

Lel brah, that actually would turn out better…...but who said anything about fighting, the point is nothing in life is ever free.

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Posted: 11 April 2017 08:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Beltane - 11 April 2017 07:59 PM
Lausten - 11 April 2017 07:22 PM

Nah, let’s do it your way and fight it out until only the stupid are left standing

Lel brah, that actually would turn out better…...but who said anything about fighting, the point is nothing in life is ever free.

Say that to me while I’m hording samples at Costco!

Muahahaha

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Posted: 11 April 2017 08:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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ExMachina - 11 April 2017 08:19 PM
Beltane - 11 April 2017 07:59 PM
Lausten - 11 April 2017 07:22 PM

Nah, let’s do it your way and fight it out until only the stupid are left standing

Lel brah, that actually would turn out better…...but who said anything about fighting, the point is nothing in life is ever free.

Say that to me while I’m hording samples at Costco!

Muahahaha

Well, I know when I’m beat, lol.

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Posted: 12 April 2017 12:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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VYAZMA - 11 April 2017 04:37 PM

Like Beltane asked above, where is the money going to come from?
There are not enough taxes being levied to go around for what we already have budgeted.

On the plus side, yes it would need more taxes, but there will be lots of savings too. Less crime, as crime is often related to poverty, less mental illnesses as they are often related to poverty, no unemployment benefits as that would be covered by the BI (basic income)...

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Posted: 12 April 2017 12:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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ExMachina - 11 April 2017 03:57 PM

This is where I tend to lean more on th Liberal side. Most of your staunch conservatives i know would cry wealth redistribution on a topic like this without considering the bottom line costs/benifits of thing like this. I honeslty don’t know enough about this to really have a set opinion yet, but it certainly does make for an interesting discussion.

The BI (basic income) would make people radically free, in a good way. People could take their lifes into their own hands, could make bolder desicions like starting a business without having to be afraid of what happens if they fail and many wouldn’t be stuck working for bullies and idiots.

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