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Will atheists help
Posted: 12 April 2017 07:45 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Evolution is a scientific fact.
We are only one species among enumerable species is a scientific fact.
Our species cannot survive as a group of created beings following directions from a God and subdue everything is a scientific fact.
For hundreds of thousands of years our AMH generations evolved, learned, lived among, and competed with other animals for survival.
During those years of early development we balanced our form of life with other forms of life as we passed through their landscapes with care on our nomadic foraging journey.
We need to return to the civility of balancing our life form with other life forms and their landscapes.
All of us, AMH of the planet should explore our evolutionary heritage, we should embrace with pride our ancestral history and successful arrival into the 21st century: It’s up to us to stop doing stupid things to all species and the planet.
It’s up to us to remove the survival of our species from the domain of irrational religious dogma.
AMH of the world, enter the realm of rational realistic down-to-earth spirituality and humanity.  Will atheists help?

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Posted: 13 April 2017 07:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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As an atheist I find your plea very disconcerting and I recoil from it.
It seems just as dogmatic and grounded in spiritualism as religion does.

Mainly that is due to your invention of some other time in the past that was more pure and ideal.
That there is some spiritual potential that can be realized that will bring us all to salvation.

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Posted: 13 April 2017 09:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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VYAZMA - 13 April 2017 07:40 AM

As an atheist I find your plea very disconcerting and I recoil from it.
It seems just as dogmatic and grounded in spiritualism as religion does.

Mainly that is due to your invention of some other time in the past that was more pure and ideal.
That there is some spiritual potential that can be realized that will bring us all to salvation.

Sorry, I did not mean to imply your perception of the post at all

Do you think I am inventing a time period?  The spirituality I am referring to is in human pre-history when everything was thought to be somehow involved with gods or some kind of spirit. This was thousands of years before religion was introduced a few thousand years ago.  Christians adopted the notion of salvation to intimidate and make a lot of money.

About salvation that was mainly a contribution of Saul of Tarsus wasn’t it?  Are you thinking the planet and its life forms are 6-10,000 years old. Like a young Earth creationist?

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Posted: 13 April 2017 10:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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AMH - 13 April 2017 09:55 AM

Are you thinking the planet and its life forms are 6-10,000 years old. Like a young Earth creationist?

Absolutely not. I don’t know why you would ask me that. Why would you ask me that?

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Posted: 13 April 2017 10:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I look at it a little differently. We’ll get to the point you discuss once the disease of unfettered capitalism has run its course. But I agree someday we’ll stop being the conquerors of all we survey, and instead become curators.

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Posted: 13 April 2017 10:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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VYAZMA - 13 April 2017 10:24 AM
AMH - 13 April 2017 09:55 AM

Are you thinking the planet and its life forms are 6-10,000 years old. Like a young Earth creationist?

Absolutely not. I don’t know why you would ask me that. Why would you ask me that?

Because you thought I was inventing a time period and I was confused by your mention of salvation. I didn’t think atheists were concerned with salvation.

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Posted: 13 April 2017 11:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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CuthbertJ - 13 April 2017 10:31 AM

I look at it a little differently. We’ll get to the point you discuss once the disease of unfettered capitalism has run its course. But I agree someday we’ll stop being the conquerors of all we survey, and instead become curators.

I don’t think unfettered capitalism will run its course until there is very little left of Human Resources and planetary natural resources to exploit. Do you think it is wise to wait until exploitation has run its course?

Our species needs more training to change to a sustainable course free of the agenda of religion. And not at all the kind you get from religious leaders. They are some of the main exploiters.

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Posted: 13 April 2017 12:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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AMH - 13 April 2017 09:55 AM

  The spirituality I am referring to is in human pre-history when everything was thought to be somehow involved with gods or some kind of spirit. This was thousands of years before religion was introduced a few thousand years ago. 

How do you know what people were thinking at that time? We have a few clay figurines of fat women and some beads, maybe a cave painting or two.

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Posted: 13 April 2017 12:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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VYAZMA, your reference to me thinking some other time in the past was “more pure and ideal” is simply wrong.  From our evidential fossils and artifacts it seems like surviving is actually hard work.  No complaints it just goes with the main job of any species, survival.  Good times, sure.  But, mainly rough sledding.

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Posted: 13 April 2017 01:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Lausten - 13 April 2017 12:57 PM
AMH - 13 April 2017 09:55 AM

  The spirituality I am referring to is in human pre-history when everything was thought to be somehow involved with gods or some kind of spirit. This was thousands of years before religion was introduced a few thousand years ago. 

How do you know what people were thinking at that time? We have a few clay figurines of fat women and some beads, maybe a cave painting or two.

Well, of course I do not know what people were thinking during human-prehistory, there are more clues to what they were thinking about 32 centuries ago when they invented writing and tried to let us know what the pre-history oral tradition stories were.

I do know when someone is trying to make a point with a minimalist spin.

[ Edited: 13 April 2017 01:11 PM by AMH ]
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Posted: 13 April 2017 01:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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AMH - 13 April 2017 12:58 PM

VYAZMA, your reference to me thinking some other time in the past was “more pure and ideal” is simply wrong.  From our evidential fossils and artifacts it seems like surviving is actually hard work.  No complaints it just goes with the main job of any species, survival.  Good times, sure.  But, mainly rough sledding.

Yeah. I’m sorry. I don’t think it was unreasonable of me to infer some of that from your original post.
As individuals or small groups yes. But as humanity as a whole? Nah.. We are like the plague.
We’re like rats or cockroaches. Will flippin’ survive.
And yeah that’s probably not a good thing for the rest of the flora and fauna.

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Posted: 13 April 2017 01:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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VYAZMA - 13 April 2017 01:16 PM
AMH - 13 April 2017 12:58 PM

VYAZMA, your reference to me thinking some other time in the past was “more pure and ideal” is simply wrong.  From our evidential fossils and artifacts it seems like surviving is actually hard work.  No complaints it just goes with the main job of any species, survival.  Good times, sure.  But, mainly rough sledding.

Yeah. I’m sorry. I don’t think it was unreasonable of me to infer some of that from your original post.
As individuals or small groups yes. But as humanity as a whole? Nah.. We are like the plague.
We’re like rats or cockroaches. Will flippin’ survive.
And yeah that’s probably not a good thing for the rest of the flora and fauna.

You may be right on the short term, but there may not be a long term if we don’t constantly improve in positive terms. We also have a lot more going for us than what you give us credit for.

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Posted: 13 April 2017 04:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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AMH - 13 April 2017 01:47 PM

You may be right on the short term, but there may not be a long term if we don’t constantly improve in positive terms. We also have a lot more going for us than what you give us credit for.

What do you mean? I just gave us the ultimate credit. We will survive.
You can’t get much better than that.

You keep hinting at this better future. This path to enlightenment….
You say “we have alot more going for us than you give us credit for.”
What does that mean? Explain that. Is there some secret?
You said, “There may not be a long term….” Not me!

“Improve in positive terms.” What does that mean?
You’re the one forecasting doom and gloom. I said we will survive.
You’re the one beseeching humanity to find a higher calling, a better way.
From what position are you stating that? Where do you gain the authority or the foresight to find room for improvement?
What’s your standard? What are you comparing reality against?
You said, “There may not be a long term….” Not me!

Let’s see you answer some of these questions.

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Posted: 13 April 2017 11:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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AMH - 12 April 2017 07:45 PM

Evolution is a scientific fact.

No, it is not in the way you are using it!
 
90% of the protein we consume today, most of the animals we have today were not part of the evolution. They were domesticated. Mankind itself may even have be domesticated.
 
Therefore there is no “return to the civility of balancing our life form with the other life forms and their landscapes”. History will most likely prove that “god” when the word god meant “knowledge” did create the earth for mankind. There is no going back. There is only going forward. There is nothing to go back to.

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Posted: 14 April 2017 05:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Mike, I don’t know anything about going back. I and a lot of other people want our species to successfully move into the future.

I don’t understand your point about domestication. Chickens were domesticated about 5,000 years ago from birds called jungle fowl.  Other meat and vegetables found in grocery stores and out e.g. Horses were all domesticated thousands of years ago.  The grain used for modern beer was domesticated before humans practiced agronomy augmenting their hunting and gathering.

The human act of domestication is contemporary with evolution. Domestication does not mean invention.

And, evolution is definitely a scientific fact.  Mike, God only exists in your mind with all Biblical supernatural events because you personally allow it. None of it ever existed in the reality of human daily activities.

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Posted: 14 April 2017 06:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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MikeYohe - 13 April 2017 11:28 PM

90% of the protein we consume today, most of the animals we have today were not part of the evolution. They were domesticated. Mankind itself may even have be domesticated.
 

Oh Mike, Mike Mike….
That statement of yours is analogous to some doofus(not you!) running around in circles saying, “I can’t find my glasses!!”
When the glasses are perched on his head.

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