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The Seven Fundamental Elements of the Universe
Posted: 25 April 2017 03:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 25 April 2017 02:41 PM

Well that was interesting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal


The devil is in the details

Thanks for the link CC. I was mistaken. Anything heavier than helium is a metal.

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Posted: 25 April 2017 04:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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The Devil is in the details? Wow!

So that wiki link to “metals” is the details then?

I gotcha.

I like the original better though….“Anything heavier than Oxygen is a metal”.

Or helium, or whatever. Just make this up as you go along.

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Posted: 26 April 2017 12:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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VYAZMA - 25 April 2017 04:30 PM

The Devil is in the details? Wow!

So that wiki link to “metals” is the details then?

I gotcha.

I like the original better though….“Anything heavier than Oxygen is a metal”.

Or helium, or whatever. Just make this up as you go along.

  No need for derision. Metals is a group of elements with a range of potentials.

The comparison is similar to saying that not all hominids are human.
No
Not all metals are hard stuff like iron, which is actually itself a transition metal.
The beauty of this elemental flexibility is its potential for unlimited variety of physical forms.

[ Edited: 26 April 2017 12:57 AM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 26 April 2017 04:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Write4U - 26 April 2017 12:51 AM

  No need for derision. Metals is a group of elements with a range of potentials.

So you agree with Darron that all elements that are heavier than He are metals then?
That’s a pretty big group of elements. That’s all the elements except H and He.

No need for derision? There’s no need for your Bill Nye The Science Guy impression.

I’m trying to get to the bottom of why someone would say such ridiculous things such as “Anything heavier than Oxygen is a metal.”

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Posted: 26 April 2017 10:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Adonai888 - 21 April 2017 11:50 AM
CuthbertJ - 21 April 2017 09:45 AM

Adonai - I’ll grant you god created the universe and now I want to make sure my Faith is rightly placed. So prove to me that the creator isn’t Shiva, the creator god of Hinduism. And no, you cannot quote scripture or bibles, because that would assume what you’re trying to prove. So let’s have it.

http://reasonandscience.heavenforum.org/t1753-a-cumulative-case-for-the-god-of-the-bible?highlight=cumulative

OMG that’s hilarious. For those who haven’t followed that link, here’s the funny part: Comparative religions and historical evidence points to God of the Hebrews/Abraham.

That’s actually the part that gets them from an Infinite Creator to the foot of Christianity’s door. Wow. ok Adonai88 now we know where you’re coming from and that you’re too far gone to talk with. Peace out.

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Posted: 26 April 2017 12:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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VYAZMA - 26 April 2017 04:20 AM
Write4U - 26 April 2017 12:51 AM

  No need for derision. Metals is a group of elements with a range of potentials.

So you agree with Darron that all elements that are heavier than He are metals then?
That’s a pretty big group of elements. That’s all the elements except H and He.

No need for derision? There’s no need for your Bill Nye The Science Guy impression.

I’m trying to get to the bottom of why someone would say such ridiculous things such as “Anything heavier than Oxygen is a metal.”

This may help:

About 91 of the 118 elements in the periodic table are metals, the others are nonmetals or metalloids. Some elements appear in both metallic and non-metallic forms.
Astrophysicists use the term “metal” to collectively describe all elements other than hydrogen and helium, the simplest two, in a star.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal

p.s.

Nucleosynthesis is the process that creates new atomic nuclei from pre-existing nucleons, primarily protons and neutrons. The first nuclei were formed about three minutes after the Big Bang, through the process called Big Bang nucleosynthesis. It was then that hydrogen and helium formed to become the content of the first stars,........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nucleosynthesis

[ Edited: 26 April 2017 02:00 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 27 April 2017 06:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Oh dear.  You used WIKI, better get those helmets and safety glasses on, incoming Turd Balls to be expected.
     

                                                cool smile

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Posted: 27 April 2017 11:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 27 April 2017 06:53 AM

Oh dear.  You used WIKI, better get those helmets and safety glasses on, incoming Turd Balls to be expected.                                          cool smile

  What me worry.. excaim  big surprise

I don’t think there is anything controversial in these wiki quotes. It basically confirms Darron’s off-hand remark, except that he used oxygen for comparison. 

I checked the periodic table and it seems that there is but one metalloid (transition metal), lighter than oxygen, so, instead of 91 metals, it becomes 90 metals that are heavier than oxygen.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

From a quick read, it seems that almost all true metals were formed in stars.Thus from an astrophysicist POV, that statement would still be close if not perfect, as a rule of thumb.

[ Edited: 27 April 2017 12:20 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 27 April 2017 02:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Why would you consult the Periodic Table?(that’s not where you want to go to prove your point.)
And why are using the term “metals”?(everything is metal except H and He..right?)

If not then your argument is a goofy example in semantics.
I don’t have patience for semantic fun time gleaned from some show you watched on PBS.

So please, stick with your position that all elements heavier than H and He are metals.
Yeah that’s good. That makes you sound informed.
Now you’re an expert in stellar elemental evolution.

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Posted: 27 April 2017 04:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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[

VYAZMA said,
Why would you consult the Periodic Table?(that’s not where you want to go to prove your point.)

Why not the periodic table that identifies elements by atomic weight and group? That does not count?

And why are using the term “metals”?(everything is metal except H and He..right?)

  Not I, astrophycisists do.

If not then your argument is a goofy example in semantics.
I don’t have patience for semantic fun time gleaned from some show you watched on PBS.

Keep up that attitude. Very productive..

So please, stick with your position that all elements heavier than H and He are metals.

Actually, it seems that astrophycisists use that short-hand grouping. You want to deride them also?. Be my guest,

Yeah that’s good. That makes you sound informed

Apparently more informed than you. At least I understood what Darron was talking about.

Now you’re an expert in stellar elemental evolution.

Awwww, you give me too much credit, but thank you

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Posted: 28 April 2017 04:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Write4U - 27 April 2017 04:11 PM

Why not the periodic table that identifies elements by atomic weight and group? That does not count?

Yes it counts if you’re trying to prove my point. There are several elements on that table that are heavier than He and are not metals.

All of the “elements” inside a star are nominal elements. They are practically indistinguishable from one another. It’s plasma.
They do not contain the chemical properties that we normally associate with atoms- atoms on the periodic table.
Elements that can be classified as non-metals or metals for example.

So for someone to say that all elements heavier than He are metals is misleading. It’s not in context. It’s unqualified.
Even an astrophysicist would chuckle.

The Earth is a chunk of all those elements made from a star. They have all cooled down and settled in so to speak. These are what we refer to as elements. And there are a number of them that are heavier than He that are not metals.

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Posted: 28 April 2017 04:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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VYAZMA said,
The Earth is a chunk of all those elements made from a star. They have all cooled down and settled in so to speak. These are what we refer to as elements. And there are a number of them that are heavier than He that are not metals.

True, but then Earth is not a star.  Context matters.

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Posted: 28 April 2017 04:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Write4U - 28 April 2017 04:25 AM

Context matters.

Right. And in the context of what’s contained in a star the term “elements” is a very loose one.
Or the term “metals” is a very loose term inside a star.
Oxygen might be referred to as “metal” in a plasma state. Because that’s the only way it will ever conduct electricity.
But we will never find Oxygen in a plasma state outside of a star.

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Posted: 28 April 2017 08:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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VYAZMA - 28 April 2017 04:39 AM
Write4U - 28 April 2017 04:25 AM

Context matters.

Right. And in the context of what’s contained in a star the term “elements” is a very loose one.
Or the term “metals” is a very loose term inside a star.
Oxygen might be referred to as “metal” in a plasma state. Because that’s the only way it will ever conduct electricity.
But we will never find Oxygen in a plasma state outside of a star.

That’s the difference between astrophysics and chemistry.

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Posted: 30 April 2017 04:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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DarronS - 28 April 2017 08:17 AM
VYAZMA - 28 April 2017 04:39 AM
Write4U - 28 April 2017 04:25 AM

Context matters.

Right. And in the context of what’s contained in a star the term “elements” is a very loose one.
Or the term “metals” is a very loose term inside a star.
Oxygen might be referred to as “metal” in a plasma state. Because that’s the only way it will ever conduct electricity.
But we will never find Oxygen in a plasma state outside of a star.

That’s the difference between astrophysics and chemistry.

No that’s not the difference. That’s just you throwing around a parlance you were unfamiliar with.
Why don’t you go back and look up where chemistry ends and nuclear physics begins.

You keep on going around telling people “everything heavier than He or O is a metal” though.
Then you can show them how smart you are in astrophysics.

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