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How does ad hominem work?
Posted: 26 April 2017 07:15 PM   [ Ignore ]
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https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/a…es_manson.html
http://mansondirect.com

I use this because everyone knows who he is but it’s more to address the use of a fallacy. Is it right to just outright dismiss him for crazy? Or is that ad homenim?

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Posted: 27 April 2017 06:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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No, it’s not ad hominem to label someone as mentally deficient or disturbed. As long as you are using valid methods to make that determination.

Ad hominem is when you say “That point is wrong because you are insane”. The point, whatever it is, is right or wrong independent of the person making the point. Ad hominem does not address the point, it only addresses the person.

If someone is crazy, you still have every right to dismiss them. Their craziness seriously lowers the probability that things they say are true. They may occasionally hit on something true, or even frequently use things that they know YOU think are true, but chances are they are leading to some crazy conclusion. You will spend more time trying to unpack their logic than it is worth.

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Posted: 27 April 2017 08:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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But isn’t that poisoning the well?

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

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Posted: 27 April 2017 08:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Also what about what the links said?

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Posted: 27 April 2017 08:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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The first one didn’t work, and I know who Manson is. I don’t need to read a long post about him. If someone is saying that he said something true, then fine, defend the thing. It doesn’t make Manson any less crazy.

It’s not poisoning the well. Read the definition yourself. If it was the same thing, we wouldn’t have two names for it.

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Posted: 27 April 2017 10:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Lausten - 27 April 2017 08:34 AM

The first one didn’t work, and I know who Manson is. I don’t need to read a long post about him. If someone is saying that he said something true, then fine, defend the thing. It doesn’t make Manson any less crazy.

It’s not poisoning the well. Read the definition yourself. If it was the same thing, we wouldn’t have two names for it.

I read the definitions for poisoning the well and they seem to apply here unless I’m missing something.

Also if someone said something true doesn’t that mean you can’t just write them off for being crazy?

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Posted: 27 April 2017 02:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Lausten - 27 April 2017 06:36 AM

If someone is crazy, you still have every right to dismiss them. Their craziness seriously lowers the probability that things they say are true.

Yes thank you! Now more than ever.
And crazy is a loose term too. That’s a large umbrella. Lotta stuff fits under there.

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Posted: 27 April 2017 02:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Tita; You’ve have been known for asking difficult questions and being very resistant to working toward an answer. You have to do some of the work. Just taking a position and sticking to it is easy. Babies do that. Don’t be a baby.

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Posted: 27 April 2017 03:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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It’s just hard. Because of who he is I want him to be wrong. But the rules of argument say I cannot dismiss him for that. And if he is right about one things than what about other things he said. If he is right about something’s, being a psychopath and all, then what am I doing with my life?

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Posted: 27 April 2017 06:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Titanomachina - 27 April 2017 03:37 PM

... then what am I doing with my life?

Living it to the best of your abilities.

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Posted: 27 April 2017 06:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Titanomachina - 27 April 2017 03:37 PM

It’s just hard. Because of who he is I want him to be wrong. But the rules of argument say I cannot dismiss him for that. And if he is right about one things than what about other things he said. If he is right about something’s, being a psychopath and all, then what am I doing with my life?

You can make up your own mind.

The things he is “right” about are not unique. He stole other people’s idea and used them to make other people think he was smart. Those people didn’t know any better, you do.

And it works both ways, you can’t dismiss people because they have mental illness, and you can’t be sure someone is right about something just because they were proven right about something else. Nicola Tesla is a good example of that, or Isaac Newton. Both of them had some batshit crazy ideas. You’re making up some cause and effect that doesn’t exist.

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Posted: 27 April 2017 08:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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I guess you’re right. I’m just terrified about admitting that a psychopath might have a point about a few things. Makes me think I have to radically change my life in the name of freedom.

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Posted: 27 April 2017 10:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Titanomachina - 27 April 2017 03:37 PM

And if he is right about one things than what about other things he said.

Titanomachina - 27 April 2017 08:01 PM

I’m just terrified about admitting that a psychopath might have a point about a few things. Makes me think I have to radically change my life in the name of freedom.

That is a ‘reverse ad hominem’: because he says at least one true sentence, everything he says is true.

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Posted: 28 April 2017 04:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Titanomachina - 27 April 2017 03:37 PM

It’s just hard. Because of who he is I want him to be wrong. But the rules of argument say I cannot dismiss him for that.

Are you seriously talking about Charles Manson here?
Is this an act? Are you kidding?

Just go away!

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Posted: 28 April 2017 04:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Lausten - 27 April 2017 06:14 PM

He stole other people’s idea and used them to make other people think he was smart. Those people didn’t know any better, you do.

Yeah I don’t know about all that.
Titan either doesn’t know any better, or he’s just trolling.
I’m tending to lean towards the trolling angle.
Repetitive posts that are circular. It’s almost like he’s trolling for sympathy or something. Yecch!

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Posted: 28 April 2017 12:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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VYAZMA - 28 April 2017 04:28 AM
Lausten - 27 April 2017 06:14 PM

He stole other people’s idea and used them to make other people think he was smart. Those people didn’t know any better, you do.

Yeah I don’t know about all that.
Titan either doesn’t know any better, or he’s just trolling.
I’m tending to lean towards the trolling angle.
Repetitive posts that are circular. It’s almost like he’s trolling for sympathy or something. Yecch!

I’m afraid this isn’t trolling. But I’m just trying to point out the counters people might make. Originally I would have just dismissed him out of simply being crazy, but since reading about philosophy I learned that I cannot do that anymore. So apparently I have to give him equal weight like any other.

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