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Is Murder Wrong If There Is No God?
Posted: 22 July 2017 11:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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Write4U - 22 July 2017 11:42 PM
Nihilo - 22 July 2017 11:38 PM
Write4U - 22 July 2017 11:28 PM
JohnH - 22 July 2017 10:51 PM
Nihilo - 22 July 2017 08:47 PM

If the RESURRECTION is fiction, then murder is not wrong.

“Thou shalt not kill” is rumored to have been written in stone long before the JC story even began. Intentional homicide was punishable by death in Athens hundreds of years before JC was rumored to exist.
Looks like JC and resurrection are getting way off thread besides being quite inaccurate.

Yes and religious murder was also committed after JC was rumored to exist.

Read Hypatia’s story;

http://www.womanastronomer.com/hypatia.htm

So what?

You’re going to Hell, that’s what.

LOL.

Write4U - 22 July 2017 11:42 PM

Here is the truth,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE

What’s the youtube about?

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Posted: 22 July 2017 11:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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Nihilo - 22 July 2017 11:53 PM
Write4U - 22 July 2017 11:42 PM
Nihilo - 22 July 2017 11:38 PM
Write4U - 22 July 2017 11:28 PM
JohnH - 22 July 2017 10:51 PM
Nihilo - 22 July 2017 08:47 PM

If the RESURRECTION is fiction, then murder is not wrong.

“Thou shalt not kill” is rumored to have been written in stone long before the JC story even began. Intentional homicide was punishable by death in Athens hundreds of years before JC was rumored to exist.
Looks like JC and resurrection are getting way off thread besides being quite inaccurate.

Yes and religious murder was also committed after JC was rumored to exist.

Read Hypatia’s story;

http://www.womanastronomer.com/hypatia.htm

So what?

You’re going to Hell, that’s what.

LOL.

Write4U - 22 July 2017 11:42 PM

Here is the truth,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE

What’s the youtube about?

You.

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Posted: 23 July 2017 12:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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Write4U - 22 July 2017 11:59 PM
Nihilo - 22 July 2017 11:53 PM
Write4U - 22 July 2017 11:42 PM

Here is the truth,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE

What’s the youtube about?

You.

George Carlin?  Really?

You don’t have to believe in God, or any of the other things that Carlin complains about, to believe in the RESURRECTION.

[ Edited: 23 July 2017 12:10 AM by Nihilo ]
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Posted: 23 July 2017 04:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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Nihilo - 22 July 2017 07:29 PM

Even if we could prove definitively that the Maker both exists nonfictionally, and is “wrong[/evil],” what on earth could we do about it?  We would remain at the mercy of the Maker, regardless, and for my money, I’d be more inclined to determining my best course of action, taking into very careful consideration to whether the Maker has instructed me in any particular way, as I make my determination about what is my best course of action, and just what I would do.

As a Christian, I am instructed to do one essential thing, and it is that I ought to “confess with [my] mouth the Lord Jesus,” and to, “believe in [my] heart that God hath raised him from the dead,” as Romans chapter 10 verse nine says.  So my choice is whether or not to believe the RESURRECTION.  And it’s an easy choice.

I agree with your hypothetical situation; If the Maker existed and we could determine it was evil, that would be a bad situation. It would mean we are superior in our ability to be good to the thing that made us. This would be a different situation than what the Bible claims. The Bible claims that because we were made by God, that makes him all be definition. But let’s set that aside and consider this “best course of action”. I’m pretty defiant to authority and obstinate when it comes to thinking I’m doing the right thing. So, I would resist the evil Maker and do what I think was right, regardless of threats of torture from the Maker or his minions.

Now, back to the God of the Bible. What in the Bible convinces you that God or Jesus are superior in their ability choose good over evil? It seems to me there is some other standard of good outside of them.

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Posted: 23 July 2017 05:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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Nihilo - 23 July 2017 12:08 AM
Write4U - 22 July 2017 11:59 PM
Nihilo - 22 July 2017 11:53 PM
Write4U - 22 July 2017 11:42 PM

Here is the truth,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r-e2NDSTuE

What’s the youtube about?

You.

George Carlin?  Really?

You don’t have to believe in God, or any of the other things that Carlin complains about, to believe in the RESURRECTION.

You don’t have to believe in god? The bible says resurrection occurred on mass at jesus’s death. Nothing special about Jesus numb nuts

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Posted: 23 July 2017 08:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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Lausten - 23 July 2017 04:59 AM

I agree with your hypothetical situation; If the Maker existed and we could determine it was evil, that would be a bad situation. It would mean we are superior in our ability to be good to the thing that made us. This would be a different situation than what the Bible claims. The Bible claims that because we were made by God, that makes him all be definition. But let’s set that aside and consider this “best course of action”. I’m pretty defiant to authority and obstinate when it comes to thinking I’m doing the right thing. So, I would resist the evil Maker and do what I think was right, regardless of threats of torture from the Maker or his minions.

Fine.  Have at it, by all means.

Lausten - 23 July 2017 04:59 AM

Now, back to the God of the Bible. What in the Bible convinces you that God or Jesus are superior in their ability choose good over evil? It seems to me there is some other standard of good outside of them.

Simple.  I don’t care about good and evil as much as you seem to.  The RESURRECTION cuts through the distractions and gets to the heart of the matter for me, so I believe it; the Gospel, the Christian Good News, that Jesus Christ is risen from the dead.

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Posted: 23 July 2017 08:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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Adamski - 23 July 2017 05:24 AM

You don’t have to believe in god? The bible says resurrection occurred on mass at jesus’s death. Nothing special about Jesus numb nuts

Are you drunk?

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Posted: 23 July 2017 09:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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Nihilo - 23 July 2017 08:47 AM
Adamski - 23 July 2017 05:24 AM

You don’t have to believe in god? The bible says resurrection occurred on mass at jesus’s death. Nothing special about Jesus numb nuts

Are you drunk?

Doesn’t help when you don’t know your own Bible. Something about the graves opening, I think it’s Matthew.

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Posted: 23 July 2017 09:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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Lausten - 23 July 2017 04:59 AM

I’m pretty defiant to authority and obstinate when it comes to thinking I’m doing the right thing. So, I would resist the evil Maker and do what I think was right, regardless of threats of torture from the Maker or his minions..

Your choice of course.  But not a rational one.

You probably don’t like Donald Trump being President.  But you’re not going to try to assassinate him, because you don’t want Seal team helicopters landing on your roof.

But you would supposedly thumb your nose at a creator of all reality and pay the price of an eternity in hell.  You’re not only not rational, you’re not honest either. 

The theist position is essentially rational.  Whatever one thinks the fundamental nature of reality might be, the rational thing to do is worship it. That’s something we have control over.

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Posted: 23 July 2017 12:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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Tanny said,
The theist position is essentially rational.  Whatever one thinks the fundamental nature of reality might be, the rational thing to do is worship it. That’s something we have control over.

What makes you think atheists do not believe in and respect Nature?  We just don’t pray for personal favors. It’s not polite and respectful to expect the universe to change it’s ways because we wish it. Nature and Natural laws are implacable forces, which must be respected and an effort made to adapt to live within it’s Natural constraints.

Nature is the Atheist’s God. We try to “walk the talk” as much as any religious persons. But we know that prayer and all the pomp and circumstance is useless. Nobody is listening. All life is subject to Natural law, not God’s law. You think you have any control over this ~13.7 billion year old Universe?

That just smacks of hubris and the expectation of immortality. The best we can hope for to be partly reincarnated as a bird or a fish, or preferably into something that people tend not to kill for food or pleasure.

We all have a few molecules of what once was Genghis Khan inside us, or Hitler, and yes even Jesus if he ever existed.

Nothing truly dies, it just changes form. Humans and some animals, such as our beloved pets only live on “in memoriam”.

That is Rational thinking . The rest is arrogant Wishful thinking, IMO.  But I still respect you also….. grin

[ Edited: 23 July 2017 12:29 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 23 July 2017 01:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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Lausten - 23 July 2017 09:05 AM
Nihilo - 23 July 2017 08:47 AM
Adamski - 23 July 2017 05:24 AM

You don’t have to believe in god? The bible says resurrection occurred on mass at jesus’s death. Nothing special about Jesus numb nuts

Are you drunk?

Doesn’t help when you don’t know your own Bible. Something about the graves opening, I think it’s Matthew.

What a laugh. You haven’t even read the bible!!

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Posted: 23 July 2017 02:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
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Adamski - 23 July 2017 01:56 PM
Lausten - 23 July 2017 09:05 AM
Nihilo - 23 July 2017 08:47 AM
Adamski - 23 July 2017 05:24 AM

You don’t have to believe in god? The bible says resurrection occurred on mass at jesus’s death. Nothing special about Jesus numb nuts

Are you drunk?

Doesn’t help when you don’t know your own Bible. Something about the graves opening, I think it’s Matthew.

What a laugh. You haven’t even read the bible!!

I am willing to bet that many atheist know more about the Bible than many Bible Thumpers.

You see, you believe what you have been told is in the bible and ordered to read a few psalms pertinent to the choice of subject by the preacher/guru.  But anyone who is used to objectively analyzing a subject make it a point to become informed about the origin and history of the subject, so that they can apply objective critical thinking to their analysis.

I am an atheist but I have four bibles (curiously each a little different, such as the story of Loafs and Fishes), as well as the Skeptics Annotated Bible, which offers analytical insight into the Bible, the Quran , and the Mormon bible.

It’s worthy for a place in anyone’s library. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

p.s. Critical Thinking is NOT being critical of something. Critical Thinking is defined as;

Critical thinking is the objective analysis of facts to form a judgment. The subject is complex, and there are several different definitions which generally include the rational, skeptical, unbiased analysis or evaluation of factual evidence.

Therefore many atheist who bother to even discuss the subject make sure they are familiar with the subject, before they enter the discussion.  Unfortunately, it is the believer who fails to inform him/herself on the facts because they have been told not to question Divine Scripture (whatever that means).

[ Edited: 23 July 2017 02:34 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 23 July 2017 02:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
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In furtherance of the above, I have linked a portion of the Skeptics Annotated bible which recognized valuable moral behaviors, which I heartily agree with, because I believe those are philosophically secular edicts.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/good/long.html

It lists 516 good moral behaviors. This is why, as an atheist,  I have these bibles. We can surely learn from them, even without belief that God exists.

[ Edited: 23 July 2017 02:53 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 23 July 2017 02:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
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Jesus Christ is the Firstborn from the dead, because He is the First to participate in the final, general resurrection from the dead, which remains future for the rest of us, but He has already risen from the dead; He did it First.  The other resurrections you’ve all suggested are not the same.

We don’t even have to believe the other resurrections are nonfiction; we just have to believe that the Lord’s RESURRECTION is nonfiction.

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Posted: 23 July 2017 03:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
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Tanny - 23 July 2017 09:20 AM
Lausten - 23 July 2017 04:59 AM

I’m pretty defiant to authority and obstinate when it comes to thinking I’m doing the right thing. So, I would resist the evil Maker and do what I think was right, regardless of threats of torture from the Maker or his minions..

Your choice of course.  But not a rational one.

You probably don’t like Donald Trump being President.  But you’re not going to try to assassinate him, because you don’t want Seal team helicopters landing on your roof.

But you would supposedly thumb your nose at a creator of all reality and pay the price of an eternity in hell.  You’re not only not rational, you’re not honest either. 

The theist position is essentially rational.  Whatever one thinks the fundamental nature of reality might be, the rational thing to do is worship it. That’s something we have control over.

Wow, you are worse off than I thought. You have completely bought into Pascal’s Wager. You don’t care that there is no evidence for the threat, you’ll just give into it. So, if you lived in Afghanistan, you’d make your wife wear a burka I suppose.

I didn’t mention it before, but part of being defiant is that I hope that my defiance could make a difference. If I can judge this Maker character and reasonably determine it is not moral, then it is also possible that it is not the most powerful being, or even if it is, it is possible that it’s powers could be usurped by enough “good” beings working together.  What you call the theist being rational, I call being weak and giving into a bully, and not thinking for yourself, and just plain lazy for not even considering that there might be a better way.

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