Do our desires disprove free will?
Posted: 02 May 2017 06:41 PM   [ Ignore ]
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By that I mean as to how we got our desires.  It doesn’t seem likethey are innate and are more than likely something that gets instilled in us. The very things that drive us and that we stake our lives on. So does that mean we are essentially “made”?

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Posted: 02 May 2017 06:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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The Search Box is your friend. There are multiple long threads on free will in the Philosophy Forum.

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Posted: 02 May 2017 07:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I’m just looking for a specific answer. It came from reading this:
http://evilhat.blogspot.com/2010/12/thomas-ligotti-conspiracy-against-human.html?m=1

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Posted: 03 May 2017 10:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Titanomachina - 02 May 2017 07:33 PM

I’m just looking for a specific answer. It came from reading this:
http://evilhat.blogspot.com/2010/12/thomas-ligotti-conspiracy-against-human.html?m=1

This is just a misconception of what free will is. Free will is the capability to act according your desires. Choosing your own desires is a logical absurdity: according to which desires would you like to change your desires?

The most one can say is that we are not the unity we possibly would like to be: we often have conflicting desires, and if we can’t resolve these conflicts we may not act to any of the conflicting desires. That means we are psychologically not free. That is a real problem for many people.

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Posted: 04 May 2017 02:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Titanomachina - 02 May 2017 06:41 PM

By that I mean as to how we got our desires.  It doesn’t seem likethey are innate and are more than likely something that gets instilled in us. The very things that drive us and that we stake our lives on. So does that mean we are essentially “made”?

I think we are a mixture of innate desires and conscious, free-will behavior based on reason. So I don’t think it’s black and white but a mixture of things.

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Posted: 04 May 2017 06:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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webplodder - 04 May 2017 02:26 AM

I think we are a mixture of innate desires and conscious, free-will behavior based on reason. So I don’t think it’s black and white but a mixture of things.

Your mixture contains three different categories: desires, actions (behaviour) and reason. I do not see how one of them would be ‘free’ and others not.

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Posted: 04 May 2017 09:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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I think I see what you are getting at. Now that I think about it, consciously picking out your desires does seem a bit absurd the more I think about it. Doesn’t really make much sense. But what about the rest of what they said? The review had more to state about the pessimism of life according to the author. Like how people are only happy if they delude themselves. Or how our sense of self is an illusion, a story we tell ourselves. That we are just sensations and flesh, any formation from that is or imagination.

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Posted: 04 May 2017 10:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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GdB - 04 May 2017 06:15 AM
webplodder - 04 May 2017 02:26 AM

I think we are a mixture of innate desires and conscious, free-will behavior based on reason. So I don’t think it’s black and white but a mixture of things.

Your mixture contains three different categories: desires, actions (behaviour) and reason. I do not see how one of them would be ‘free’ and others not.

Reason is free because it is not an automatic response but depends of evaluation allowing choice.

Desires, when unregulated, are instinctual responses to stimuli.

Actions are the result of either.

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Posted: 04 May 2017 10:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Titanomachina - 04 May 2017 09:17 AM

I think I see what you are getting at. Now that I think about it, consciously picking out your desires does seem a bit absurd the more I think about it. Doesn’t really make much sense. But what about the rest of what they said? The review had more to state about the pessimism of life according to the author. Like how people are only happy if they delude themselves. Or how our sense of self is an illusion, a story we tell ourselves. That we are just sensations and flesh, any formation from that is or imagination.

Well, many people find holding a religious belief fulfilling, although it could be argued religion is just self-delusion based on an imaginary power.

On the other hand, many people are happily enough having meaningful relationships with others and feel no need to be religious.

Some people are a combination of both where they don’t disbelief in a god but are agnostic.

While people should not delude themselves too much it’s good to be optimistic about life because this will give you the incentive to live a normal life.

I think it’s not a good idea to overthink things too much as this can lead to taking life too seriously.

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Posted: 04 May 2017 11:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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That seems about right. We are only here for a little while, no sense in taking things too seriously.

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Posted: 04 May 2017 07:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Titanomachina - 02 May 2017 06:41 PM

By that I mean as to how we got our desires.  It doesn’t seem likethey are innate and are more than likely something that gets instilled in us. The very things that drive us and that we stake our lives on. So does that mean we are essentially “made”?

.


They’re the reault of determining factors we are unconscious of and how we react to those factoss as individuals is also determined by unconscious factors we have no control over.

LL

[ Edited: 04 May 2017 08:05 PM by LoisL ]
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Posted: 04 May 2017 08:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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So basically, it doesn’t mater how we got them?

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Posted: 06 May 2017 05:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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webplodder - 04 May 2017 10:09 AM

Reason is free because it is not an automatic response but depends of evaluation allowing choice.

Desires, when unregulated, are instinctual responses to stimuli.

Actions are the result of either.

So unregulated actions are not free per definition? Even if they are according your desires?

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Posted: 06 May 2017 09:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Titanomachina - 04 May 2017 08:49 PM

So basically, it doesn’t mater how we got them?

Got what? Determining factors! Yes, it doesn’t matter how we got them. It’s like evolution. How did we get the characteristics that made us what we are? Did our “desires” have anything to do with it?

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Posted: 06 May 2017 10:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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webplodder - 04 May 2017 10:09 AM
GdB - 04 May 2017 06:15 AM
webplodder - 04 May 2017 02:26 AM

I think we are a mixture of innate desires and conscious, free-will behavior based on reason. So I don’t think it’s black and white but a mixture of things.

Your mixture contains three different categories: desires, actions (behaviour) and reason. I do not see how one of them would be ‘free’ and others not.

Reason is free because it is not an automatic response but depends of evaluation allowing choice.

Desires, when unregulated, are instinctual responses to stimuli.

Actions are the result of either.

Do non human animals have free will? Do they have “choice”?

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