Does the self exist?
Posted: 18 May 2017 10:01 PM   [ Ignore ]
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http://www.livescience.com/55999-is-your-self-just-an-illusion.html

The theory states that there is no independent and continuous “I” that we like to believe exists, it’s more like a collection of experiences. The continuity is something that we craft ourselves. SO does that mean the “I” is an illusion?

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Posted: 18 May 2017 10:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Yeah and some say time is an illusion.

Stop believing everything the human mind can dream up.

Sweet dreams.

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Posted: 18 May 2017 11:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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That seems to be the case, and having the illusion of self is necessary for survival.

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Posted: 19 May 2017 06:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Don’t think of it as an “illusion”, but instead as a Model your brain constructs.  Like sight.  Images fall on your retina.  The retina takes that data and sends it up the optic nerve to the brain, which then constructs a Model that it can use.  The Self is similar.  Without that model, your thoughts would just be a confusion cacophony of conflicting impulses, with nothing to make sense of them.

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Posted: 19 May 2017 09:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I’ve always thought that was an interesting question that does bring us back to Plato’s Forms. If you were to take a look at the tip of your finger for example through an electron microscope, you wouldn’t be able to tell the different between the atoms in your finger and the atoms in the air right next to your finger. Yet something keeps them apart. Put another way, what is it that differentiates one thing from another? Maybe there really is NO differentiation. Maybe there IS something like Plato’s Forms.

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Posted: 20 May 2017 11:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Titanomachina - 18 May 2017 10:01 PM

http://www.livescience.com/55999-is-your-self-just-an-illusion.html

The theory states that there is no independent and continuous “I” that we like to believe exists, it’s more like a collection of experiences. The continuity is something that we craft ourselves. SO does that mean the “I” is an illusion?

It’s possible. We can never know for sure if the self exists outside our own imaginations. Descartes said, “I think, therefore I am,” so that may be all we have to go on.

Lois

[ Edited: 21 May 2017 10:57 AM by LoisL ]
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[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

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Posted: 20 May 2017 11:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Continuing with that theme, one word Anosognosia

Anosognosia is a deficit of self-awareness,

a condition in which a person with some disability seems unaware of its existence.
It was first named by the neurologist Joseph Babinski in 1914.[1]
Anosognosia results from physiological damage to brain structures,
typically to the parietal lobe or a diffuse lesion on the fronto-temporal-parietal area in the right hemisphere,[2][3][4] and is thus a neurological disorder.

While this distinguishes the condition from denial, which is a psychological defense mechanism, attempts have been made at a unified explanation.[5]
Anosognosia is sometimes accompanied by asomatognosia, a form of neglect in which patients deny ownership of their limbs.

(/æˌnɒsɒɡˈnoʊziə/, /æˌnɒsɒɡˈnoʊʒə/; from Ancient Greek ἀ- a-, “without”, νόσος nosos, “disease” and γνῶσις gnōsis, “knowledge”)

WIKI

It seems that the inability to recognize the self is a serious mental disorder.
Does a cat, or dolphin playing with itself in the mirror not displaying a sort of sense of self?

Does one not need a sense of self to be able to function in the competitive physical world?

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Posted: 21 May 2017 11:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 20 May 2017 11:41 PM

Continuing with that theme, one word Anosognosia

Anosognosia is a deficit of self-awareness,

a condition in which a person with some disability seems unaware of its existence.
It was first named by the neurologist Joseph Babinski in 1914.[1]
Anosognosia results from physiological damage to brain structures,
typically to the parietal lobe or a diffuse lesion on the fronto-temporal-parietal area in the right hemisphere,[2][3][4] and is thus a neurological disorder.

While this distinguishes the condition from denial, which is a psychological defense mechanism, attempts have been made at a unified explanation.[5]
Anosognosia is sometimes accompanied by asomatognosia, a form of neglect in which patients deny ownership of their limbs.

(/æˌnɒsɒɡˈnoʊziə/, /æˌnɒsɒɡˈnoʊʒə/; from Ancient Greek ἀ- a-, “without”, νόσος nosos, “disease” and γνῶσις gnōsis, “knowledge”)

WIKI

It seems that the inability to recognize the self is a serious mental disorder.
Does a cat, or dolphin playing with itself in the mirror not displaying a sort of sense of self?

Does one not need a sense of self to be able to function in the competitive physical world?

I think so. That would make sense.

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[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

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Posted: 24 May 2017 06:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 20 May 2017 11:41 PM

Does a cat, or dolphin playing with itself in the mirror not displaying a sort of sense of self?

Not necessarily.  A cat playing with his reflection in a mirror is probably only reacting to another moving object, just as he would to a mobile toy.  He knows that it’s not another cat because it has no scent.  I once watched one of my cats playing with a mirror, and after a while, figuring out that his paws were just hitting flat glass, he moved around behind it, as though to see if the cat was on the other side.

I don’t know about dolphins.  It would be interesting because in their world there probably are no reflections that they would have experience with.  Cats see their own reflections all the time, for example in the surface of water, so they’re not surprised by the experience.

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Posted: 29 May 2017 02:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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This, to me, is a bit like asking if a galaxy exists.

If you are living on a planet somewhere in a galaxy you are only aware of your immediate surroundings and the concept ‘galaxy’ has no meaning for you. But once we realize we are living on a planet that has many other places in it we come to recognize we are ‘earthlings.’

The next level up is to see ourselves as part of a solar system and is reflected in the view we are members of that.

Finally, we discover our solar system is but one of a countless number making up a galaxy.

So at each level of abstraction we are aware of varying details and at the highest recognize we are living in a universe.

The same principle, I think, applies to the ‘self’ in terms of making abstract observations about many individual experiences that people undergo through life. All such instances of such experiences seem to conform to a familiar pattern, i.e., that of ‘belonging’ to the same source (‘me’).

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