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Is Too Much Liberalism a Good Thing?
Posted: 30 May 2017 02:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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And to be clear, the rally cry of the American Revolution wasn’t. “Give me conformism or give me death!”, it was, “Give me LIBERTY or give me death!”

Liberals are far truer to the spirit of America than people who keep trying to ram their religious, political, economic and personal beliefs down everybody else’s throat.

You know, conservatives…

Go live in Iran or Saudi Arabia if you want to experience what ruthlessly enforced conformism is like…

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Posted: 30 May 2017 05:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Let’s look at the facts.

One of America’s most liberal Presidents was Franklin Roosevelt. He took office in an America that had been devastated by the same kind of single-minded greed that is destroying not just the US but most of the world now.

He also faced the rise of extreme right wing parties in places like Japan, Italy, Spain and Germany. If not for the intervention of a liberal led US the entire world would have entered a conformist nightmare that would have lasted for a very long time.

If the US was faced with the same challenge now it’s likely that the Trump White House would make common cause with those kind of extremist governments. The Trump White House is an extremist government based on racism, elitism and corruption. trump is more interested in making the Russians happy as we saw with the firing of an FBI director who was trying to fulfill his duty to protect the US Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic.

The Russians who hacked the last US election in favour of Trump are the foreign enemy.

Trump and his team who had extensive contacts with the Russians throughout the last election year and took full advantage of the theft of private DNC material are also maintaining that strong connection and working further to undermine the US Constitution are the domestic enemy.

Steve Bannon who played a central role in the election of Trump and is still a powerful figure in the Trump White House is a fascist.

Too much liberalism my ass, the US faces the grave risk of too much fascism in its hall of power.

And that includes groups like the completely misnamed republican Tea Party which is not much more than astro-turf for wealthy conservatives who are rapidly buying their way to complete power in the US.

The US needs much greater liberalism and an assertion of what the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution really stand for. And that is for personal liberty and a firm separation of the state from any influences that may try to impose their will on the American people at large.

Liberals aren’t trying to do that, but conservatives sure as hell are. That includes a man that used a hostile foreign power to take office and who is constantly working to undermine and eventually destroy the US Constitution.

Trump is a traitor and so is anyone who is enabling him, that now includes most of the republican party…

[ Edited: 30 May 2017 05:24 PM by DougC ]
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Posted: 30 May 2017 05:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Beltane - 30 May 2017 06:08 AM

which leads to what amounts to “victim-worship”.

“victim-worship”
That’s funny.  It seems to me the new GOP and Trump are the one’s who are all about self-victimization-worship.
Listen to the delusional garbage being pumped out by the GOP machine.
Everybody hates them and everyone else is a perceived enemy.  downer

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Posted: 30 May 2017 07:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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DougC - 30 May 2017 05:22 PM

Let’s look at the facts.

One of America’s most liberal Presidents was Franklin Roosevelt. He took office in an America that had been devastated by the same kind of single-minded greed that is destroying not just the US but most of the world now.

He also faced the rise of extreme right wing parties in places like Japan, Italy, Spain and Germany. If not for the intervention of a liberal led US the entire world would have entered a conformist nightmare that would have lasted for a very long time.

If the US was faced with the same challenge now it’s likely that the Trump White House would make common cause with those kind of extremist governments. The Trump White House is an extremist government based on racism, elitism and corruption. trump is more interested in making the Russians happy as we saw with the firing of an FBI director who was trying to fulfill his duty to protect the US Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic.

The Russians who hacked the last US election in favour of Trump are the foreign enemy.

Trump and his team who had extensive contacts with the Russians throughout the last election year and took full advantage of the theft of private DNC material are also maintaining that strong connection and working further to undermine the US Constitution are the domestic enemy.

Steve Bannon who played a central role in the election of Trump and is still a powerful figure in the Trump White House is a fascist.

Too much liberalism my ass, the US faces the grave risk of too much fascism in its hall of power.

And that includes groups like the completely misnamed republican Tea Party which is not much more than astro-turf for wealthy conservatives who are rapidly buying their way to complete power in the US.

The US needs much greater liberalism and an assertion of what the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution really stand for. And that is for personal liberty and a firm separation of the state from any influences that may try to impose their will on the American people at large.

Liberals aren’t trying to do that, but conservatives sure as hell are. That includes a man that used a hostile foreign power to take office and who is constantly working to undermine and eventually destroy the US Constitution.

Trump is a traitor and so is anyone who is enabling him, that now includes most of the republican party…

Unhinged and inaccurate post, sir.

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Posted: 30 May 2017 07:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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In depth analysis from Beltane.

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Posted: 30 May 2017 07:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 30 May 2017 05:35 PM
Beltane - 30 May 2017 06:08 AM

which leads to what amounts to “victim-worship”.

“victim-worship”
That’s funny.  It seems to me the new GOP and Trump are the one’s who are all about self-victimization-worship.
Listen to the delusional garbage being pumped out by the GOP machine.
Everybody hates them and everyone else is a perceived enemy.  downer

Thats not what I’m talking about, but I’ll respond this way - the hate for Trump is intense, and coming from a fairly big segment of society, but he doesn’t act like a victim. He’s a superstar and he knows it. The GOP might have some names who feel sorry for themselves, probably most don’t.

What I’m talking about is the liberal tendency to become too compassionate towards marginalized groups at everyone else’s expense. It basically amounts to an almost religious veneration of these groups.

Another word for it is pathological altruism.

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Posted: 30 May 2017 08:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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@Beltane

DougC - 30 May 2017 05:22 PM

Let’s look at the facts.

One of America’s most liberal Presidents was Franklin Roosevelt. He took office in an America that had been devastated by the same kind of single-minded greed that is destroying not just the US but most of the world now.

He also faced the rise of extreme right wing parties in places like Japan, Italy, Spain and Germany. If not for the intervention of a liberal led US the entire world would have entered a conformist nightmare that would have lasted for a very long time.

If the US was faced with the same challenge now it’s likely that the Trump White House would make common cause with those kind of extremist governments. The Trump White House is an extremist government based on racism, elitism and corruption. trump is more interested in making the Russians happy as we saw with the firing of an FBI director who was trying to fulfill his duty to protect the US Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic.

The Russians who hacked the last US election in favour of Trump are the foreign enemy.

Trump and his team who had extensive contacts with the Russians throughout the last election year and took full advantage of the theft of private DNC material are also maintaining that strong connection and working further to undermine the US Constitution are the domestic enemy.

Steve Bannon who played a central role in the election of Trump and is still a powerful figure in the Trump White House is a fascist.

Too much liberalism my ass, the US faces the grave risk of too much fascism in its hall of power.

And that includes groups like the completely misnamed republican Tea Party which is not much more than astro-turf for wealthy conservatives who are rapidly buying their way to complete power in the US.

The US needs much greater liberalism and an assertion of what the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution really stand for. And that is for personal liberty and a firm separation of the state from any influences that may try to impose their will on the American people at large.

Liberals aren’t trying to do that, but conservatives sure as hell are. That includes a man that used a hostile foreign power to take office and who is constantly working to undermine and eventually destroy the US Constitution.

Trump is a traitor and so is anyone who is enabling him, that now includes most of the republican party…

Unhinged and inaccurate post, sir.

Provide the slightest bit of evidence of where and how.

Franklin Roosevelt was one of the most liberal presidents in US history. Under his leadership America was the arsenal of freedom and sent millions of men overseas to help defeat fascist governments across the planet.

Trump on the other hand gathered most of his support by picking visible minorities then bashing the heck out of them and eventually had a well documented white supremacist for a campaign manager who then became the key White House strategist.

There’s ample evidence that the Trump campaign worked closely with the Russian government that used a modern version of the Watergate theft on the DNC and the political rat-fucking - that’s the actual name - of the Nixon team.

Give us something more than borderline ad hominem nonsense or admit you have zero to offer on this subject.

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Posted: 30 May 2017 08:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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DougC - 30 May 2017 08:24 PM

@Beltane

DougC - 30 May 2017 05:22 PM

Let’s look at the facts.

One of America’s most liberal Presidents was Franklin Roosevelt. He took office in an America that had been devastated by the same kind of single-minded greed that is destroying not just the US but most of the world now.

He also faced the rise of extreme right wing parties in places like Japan, Italy, Spain and Germany. If not for the intervention of a liberal led US the entire world would have entered a conformist nightmare that would have lasted for a very long time.

If the US was faced with the same challenge now it’s likely that the Trump White House would make common cause with those kind of extremist governments. The Trump White House is an extremist government based on racism, elitism and corruption. trump is more interested in making the Russians happy as we saw with the firing of an FBI director who was trying to fulfill his duty to protect the US Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic.

The Russians who hacked the last US election in favour of Trump are the foreign enemy.

Trump and his team who had extensive contacts with the Russians throughout the last election year and took full advantage of the theft of private DNC material are also maintaining that strong connection and working further to undermine the US Constitution are the domestic enemy.

Steve Bannon who played a central role in the election of Trump and is still a powerful figure in the Trump White House is a fascist.

Too much liberalism my ass, the US faces the grave risk of too much fascism in its hall of power.

And that includes groups like the completely misnamed republican Tea Party which is not much more than astro-turf for wealthy conservatives who are rapidly buying their way to complete power in the US.

The US needs much greater liberalism and an assertion of what the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution really stand for. And that is for personal liberty and a firm separation of the state from any influences that may try to impose their will on the American people at large.

Liberals aren’t trying to do that, but conservatives sure as hell are. That includes a man that used a hostile foreign power to take office and who is constantly working to undermine and eventually destroy the US Constitution.

Trump is a traitor and so is anyone who is enabling him, that now includes most of the republican party…

Unhinged and inaccurate post, sir.

Provide the slightest bit of evidence of where and how.

Franklin Roosevelt was one of the most liberal presidents in US history. Under his leadership America was the arsenal of freedom and sent millions of men overseas to help defeat fascist governments across the planet.

Trump on the other hand gathered most of his support by picking visible minorities then bashing the heck out of them and eventually had a well documented white supremacist for a campaign manager who then became the key White House strategist.

There’s ample evidence that the Trump campaign worked closely with the Russian government that used a modern version of the Watergate theft on the DNC and the political rat-fucking - that’s the actual name - of the Nixon team.

Give us something more than borderline ad hominem nonsense or admit you have zero to offer on this subject.

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Posted: 30 May 2017 08:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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What is up with the spam filter here anyway, it makes it almost impossible to reply often?

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Posted: 30 May 2017 08:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Lausten - 30 May 2017 07:41 PM

In depth analysis from Beltane.

Yup, more BS gaslighting from the right who have nothing to offer of substance.

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Posted: 30 May 2017 08:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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DougC - 30 May 2017 08:24 PM

@Beltane

DougC - 30 May 2017 05:22 PM

Let’s look at the facts.

One of America’s most liberal Presidents was Franklin Roosevelt. He took office in an America that had been devastated by the same kind of single-minded greed that is destroying not just the US but most of the world now.

He also faced the rise of extreme right wing parties in places like Japan, Italy, Spain and Germany. If not for the intervention of a liberal led US the entire world would have entered a conformist nightmare that would have lasted for a very long time.

If the US was faced with the same challenge now it’s likely that the Trump White House would make common cause with those kind of extremist governments. The Trump White House is an extremist government based on racism, elitism and corruption. trump is more interested in making the Russians happy as we saw with the firing of an FBI director who was trying to fulfill his duty to protect the US Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic.

The Russians who hacked the last US election in favour of Trump are the foreign enemy.

Trump and his team who had extensive contacts with the Russians throughout the last election year and took full advantage of the theft of private DNC material are also maintaining that strong connection and working further to undermine the US Constitution are the domestic enemy.

Steve Bannon who played a central role in the election of Trump and is still a powerful figure in the Trump White House is a fascist.

Too much liberalism my ass, the US faces the grave risk of too much fascism in its hall of power.

And that includes groups like the completely misnamed republican Tea Party which is not much more than astro-turf for wealthy conservatives who are rapidly buying their way to complete power in the US.

The US needs much greater liberalism and an assertion of what the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution really stand for. And that is for personal liberty and a firm separation of the state from any influences that may try to impose their will on the American people at large.

Liberals aren’t trying to do that, but conservatives sure as hell are. That includes a man that used a hostile foreign power to take office and who is constantly working to undermine and eventually destroy the US Constitution.

Trump is a traitor and so is anyone who is enabling him, that now includes most of the republican party…

Unhinged and inaccurate post, sir.

Provide the slightest bit of evidence of where and how.

Franklin Roosevelt was one of the most liberal presidents in US history. Under his leadership America was the arsenal of freedom and sent millions of men overseas to help defeat fascist governments across the planet.

Trump on the other hand gathered most of his support by picking visible minorities then bashing the heck out of them and eventually had a well documented white supremacist for a campaign manager who then became the key White House strategist.

There’s ample evidence that the Trump campaign worked closely with the Russian government that used a modern version of the Watergate theft on the DNC and the political rat-fucking - that’s the actual name - of the Nixon team.

Give us something more than borderline ad hominem nonsense or admit you have zero to offer on this subject.

I’ll start a new thread on this topic instead of derailing this one.

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Posted: 30 May 2017 09:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Don’t bother, you’re not worth the time or the effort.

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Posted: 30 May 2017 10:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Too much liberalism is like saying too much freedom, what do you think liberalism is.

The problems almost all of us face today is the removal of almost all freedom. Look at what’s in the White House and in control of Congress, the problem in the western world isn’t too much liberalism, it’s too much fascism. And fascists if given a chance eliminate liberals.

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Posted: 31 May 2017 12:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Beltane - 30 May 2017 07:53 AM
webplodder - 30 May 2017 06:48 AM
Beltane - 30 May 2017 06:08 AM

Liberalism isn’t giving rise those issues, they’ve always been around in a too-big, complex society. Whats happening is liberalism is pedistalizing gender and sexual disorders through misguided compassion - which leads to what amounts to “victim-worship”.

It will die out soon.

Yep but isn’t that just all part of an over liberal attitude?

Don’t know if I’m reading you right; are you asking if gender and sexual disorders stem from liberalism?

If so, the answer to that is no. The disorders themselves are caused by a combination of environmental and genetic factors. Liberal society (the current liberal society) then aggravates the disorders at the expense of everybody else.

So you don’t think many of these claims are nothing more than self-indulgent delusions on the part of some individuals who are really making a cry for help because they are inadequate in some way? How can you really determine whether a person is in the wrong body, after all, we only have their word for it. You wouldn’t normally treat a person in other areas of medicine based on a self-diagnosis. What test is their to accomplish this?

How to we know gender-reassignment isn’t simply a fashion that some ‘vulnerable’ people have been seduced by in an attempt to find an answer to other problems in their lives? I gather that not every person who undergoes gender-reassignment finds it is the answer, so maybe there are more fundamental issues that they need to address before embarking on such a radical ‘solution.’

I’m all for a liberal approach as long as it is really going to benefit suffering, however, liberalism is counterproductive if all it does is allow people to act against their best interests. Ever heard of the phrase ‘tough love?’

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Posted: 31 May 2017 12:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Lausten - 30 May 2017 08:23 AM

Too busy to read the whole thread right, or to get an image past the spam filter, but google “political spectrum” and you find charts that put liberalism right in the middle. Most of Western civilization has shifted to the right, so the “center” of the spectrum when you poll people is on the right. But by definition of the word, liberal is centrist, it tries to include everyone and balance the rights of the individual with the rights of the majority or any group.

You might mean far-left when you say liberal. But unless you say what programs and ideas you are talking about, I won’t know.

You can push the idea of rights to ridiculous lengths. There has to be some limit on what people are entitled to, otherwise, society becomes unmanageable. What about the right to own a gun versus the right of a person not to be shot?

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