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Why Did They Invent Christianity?
Posted: 21 July 2017 12:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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CuthbertJ - 21 July 2017 12:12 PM

Josephus as corroboration is pretty weak.

All I’m saying is that Josephus reported that James the Just was executed, and that, for his witness to the RESURRECTION.  I don’t rely upon Josephus for anything more than that.

CuthbertJ - 21 July 2017 12:12 PM

Valuable yes, but ultimately weak because he’s just relaying stories he heard as well. It’s the old Telephone experiment plain and simple. As for proof of resurrection, there’s no such thing because the notion of ressurection itself is a loaded word.

Well then let’s unload it.  The RESURRECTION means that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and then rose from the dead.

CuthbertJ - 21 July 2017 12:12 PM

The best you could ever hope to prove is that a person levitated to a certain height. They could even have levitated into the clouds. All that means is some very odd physical event occurred. Says nothing about there being a heaven to be resurrected to, there being a god, Jesus being divine, etc. For all we know, some “ancient alien” could have beamed Jesus up Star Trek style out of view from below and whisked him away because he was a nice guy. That in itself would be hard to prove.

You’re jumping the gun, talking about the Ascension.  All I’m talking about is His RESURRECTION.

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Posted: 21 July 2017 04:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Nihilo - 21 July 2017 12:24 PM
CuthbertJ - 21 July 2017 12:12 PM

Josephus as corroboration is pretty weak.

All I’m saying is that Josephus reported that James the Just was executed, and that, for his witness to the RESURRECTION.  I don’t rely upon Josephus for anything more than that.

CuthbertJ - 21 July 2017 12:12 PM

Valuable yes, but ultimately weak because he’s just relaying stories he heard as well. It’s the old Telephone experiment plain and simple. As for proof of resurrection, there’s no such thing because the notion of ressurection itself is a loaded word.

Well then let’s unload it.  The RESURRECTION means that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and then rose from the dead.

CuthbertJ - 21 July 2017 12:12 PM

The best you could ever hope to prove is that a person levitated to a certain height. They could even have levitated into the clouds. All that means is some very odd physical event occurred. Says nothing about there being a heaven to be resurrected to, there being a god, Jesus being divine, etc. For all we know, some “ancient alien” could have beamed Jesus up Star Trek style out of view from below and whisked him away because he was a nice guy. That in itself would be hard to prove.

You’re jumping the gun, talking about the Ascension.  All I’m talking about is His RESURRECTION.

Nihilo there is no evidence to support that this event occurred. The title if the thresd gives it away. All religion is made up. Man made mythologies has gived us religion

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Posted: 21 July 2017 07:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Adamski - 21 July 2017 04:21 PM
Nihilo - 21 July 2017 12:24 PM

RESURRECTION. . . RESURRECTION . . . RESURRECTION.

Nihilo there is no evidence to support that this event occurred. The title if the thresd gives it away. All religion is made up. Man made mythologies has gived us religion

Imagine it did happen, two thousand years ago.  How would we know?

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Posted: 22 July 2017 05:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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CuthbertJ - 07 June 2017 10:52 AM

Much ado about nothing, no matter you fancy up the language. They might as well be talking about Harry Potter. Fiction is still fiction.

Prove it.  You made a claim.  Now prove it.  This is the exact same challenge we present to theists.  If you walk away from the challenge of at least trying to prove your own claim, you become a heretic to your own chosen methodology.

Remember, we aren’t talking here about the other fellow’s claim. That’s his problem, his burden.  We’re talking about YOUR CLAIM.  And that’s your burden. 

So your response should not include anything about why the other fellow is wrong.  As example, a theist can’t prove their case merely by endlessly repeating that atheism is wrong.  They have to prove their own claim independently of anything atheists may be thinking or saying.  If there were no atheists anywhere in the world, that would not lift the theist’s burden.  The burden arises out of the claim itself, and not from anything or anybody else.

So, prove your claim that, say, the divinity of Jesus is fiction. 

If you are going to reference lack of evidence and so on, then please first prove that your chosen authority of human reason is qualified to address issues which may be outside the laws of nature (ie. divinity).

If you attempt to meet this challenge in an intellectually honest manner which respects the processes of reason to which you apparently give your loyalty, you will soon see the burden is impossible to meet, and thus your atheism will collapse like the teetering house of cards that it is.

Will that make you religious?  No.

It will make you a person of reason.

It will convert you to your own chosen methodology.

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Posted: 22 July 2017 05:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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john76 - 02 June 2017 07:33 PM

I’m trying to put together the big picture for the idea that the Jesus story was a noble lie:

I’m interested, but still not clear exactly what you are trying to accomplish. 

Are you trying to show that early Christians invented the divinity of Jesus so as to sell love?  Is that what you mean by “a noble lie”?

Not arguing, at least not yet.  Just seeking clarification.

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Posted: 22 July 2017 07:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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(I’m trying to put together the big picture for the idea that the Jesus story was a noble lie).
I agree that the stories were lies, but believe Jesus was a person.
I believe Jesus was a person who was running for political office. And why waste time putting the big picture together. That already has been done. Read the book, The Lost Gospel.
WHY DID THEY INVENT CHRISTIANITY?
Can you list the “THEY”?
John, Mark, Mathew and Paul may be on that list.
Simple logic would say that after Jesus was removed from the picture. That part of his political team went north and continued with the campaign. The part of the team that stayed in Israel also tried to keep the movement going. But the Israel movement was Gnostic, as was Jesus. Gnostic didn’t sell up north, so they invented the Christian pathway. The area was ripe for change. The levels of heaven were understood and the god RA was only hanging by a thread. Jesus replaced RA. The plagues wipe out most of the people with eastern beliefs. So, the knowledge levels were low, the Greek influence was low. And at the time Christianity was being born. They were in the middle of another major plague. Everything was controlled by Rome. And Rome did not like Hebrews at that time in history.
 
To summarize my points. The religions that were selling were the religions offering afterlife. The Hebrew was out of the picture because of political turmoil. RA was on his way out because Egypt had gone Greek. That left the Eastern religions which offered heaven and then reincarnation. But, the Eastern religions were taken out by the leprosy plagues. Christianity was filling in the need for afterlife with very little competition.

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