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UFO Documentaries
Posted: 09 August 2017 03:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Tanny - 16 July 2017 09:13 AM
webplodder - 15 July 2017 07:59 AM

What do you think about the theory that some of these high performance UFOs are top secret experimental aircraft?

Seems a theory reasonable.  Surely there are secret aircraft, and it’s surely possible some have been spotted by civilians.

It seems to me the question boils down to this. 

1) Are _ANY_ of the sightings real UFOs?  All that’s needed is a single valid case to make the UFO believers on the right track.

OR:

2) Are _ALL_ the many thousands of sightings all false, mistakes, frauds etc.  Is every single one of these thousands of cases not a real UFO?  This is what’s required to make the skeptics right.

I don’t claim to know the answer, I’m just trying to do the math. 

My best guess for now is that something unknown is flying around up there.  I’m less willing to jump on the “it must be aliens” bandwagon.  Something unknown does not automatically equal alien life forms from across the galaxy.

Yep, that seems a reasonable approach to me. Okay, I daresay most sightings have a rational explanation but it only takes a single genuine case to be true which is why we need to examine all cases just in case.  grin

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Posted: 09 August 2017 03:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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LoisL - 16 July 2017 12:05 PM
Tanny - 16 July 2017 09:03 AM
LoisL - 15 July 2017 08:17 AM

While it’s an interesting idea, it doesn’t rise to a scientific theory.

Who said anything about scientific theory?  We’re talking about the documentaries linked above.  Please watch them so you can comment intelligently and add something useful to the thread.  Once you’ve watched the documentaries you are not obligated to agree with anything, but at least you would then be on topic, and your challenges would be relevant and informed.

LoisL - 15 July 2017 08:17 AM

When you can come up with any objective evidence to support it rather than wishful thinking, it might be worth exploring. Until then, it’s a waste of time. Interesting ideas with no evidence are a dime a dozen.

We’re talking about UFO’s and NOT Lois’s self flattering self image as a hard core realistic science worshiping superior laser sharp reasoner person blah, blah, blah etc and other emotional ego inflating poses.  If you wish to talk about Lois and her ego, please start another thread on that topic.  Thank you.

Your opinions mean nothing here. I thought I was on your ignore list. If not, please do so now.

LoisL, why don’t you just calm down and be nice?  grin

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Posted: 09 August 2017 06:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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webplodder - 09 August 2017 03:20 AM
Tanny - 16 July 2017 09:13 AM
webplodder - 15 July 2017 07:59 AM

What do you think about the theory that some of these high performance UFOs are top secret experimental aircraft?

Seems a theory reasonable.  Surely there are secret aircraft, and it’s surely possible some have been spotted by civilians.

It seems to me the question boils down to this. 

1) Are _ANY_ of the sightings real UFOs?  All that’s needed is a single valid case to make the UFO believers on the right track.

OR:

2) Are _ALL_ the many thousands of sightings all false, mistakes, frauds etc.  Is every single one of these thousands of cases not a real UFO?  This is what’s required to make the skeptics right.

I don’t claim to know the answer, I’m just trying to do the math. 

My best guess for now is that something unknown is flying around up there.  I’m less willing to jump on the “it must be aliens” bandwagon.  Something unknown does not automatically equal alien life forms from across the galaxy.

Yep, that seems a reasonable approach to me. Okay, I daresay most sightings have a rational explanation but it only takes a single genuine case to be true which is why we need to examine all cases just in case.  grin

It would be reasonable if there was a good reason to believe any one specific sighting was a “single genuine case”.  A long time ago, the government DID take UFOs very seriously and investigate them.  It was called Project Blue Book.  Once they realized that there was nothing to it, they decided to stop wasting their time.  This isn’t to say that there is a pat explanation for every single UFO sighting anyone has ever reported.  It’s just that there is no good reason to think that any of these sightings wasn’t just a misinterpretation.

Here’s what you should be asking:  Why isn’t the major news media all over this?  If there were really some fire behind all this smoke, wouldn’t they have their top investigators on it?  Wouldn’t they have blown the lid off this “massive government cover up” a long time ago?  To me this is highly suggestive.  Sure, the media love to run uncritical stories about UFOs because people are interested in them.  But how often have you ever seen a serious follow up to any of them?  That suggests to me that the media don’t take them any more seriously than the government does.  I don’t take “documentaries” seriously because it’s too easy to make something appear to be a great paranormal mystery by simply leaving out inconvenient information.  I’m sorry to say that the UFO community has a long and colorful history of making up the facts to suit their theories.  It’s unfortunate because if they didn’t have that history, people might take them seriously.

The topic of UFOs fascinates me because I’m interested in why people are drawn so strongly to that particular idea.  I suspect it has something to do with dissociation, a failure to adequately separate fantasy from reality.  People believe in them because doing so makes life more interesting.

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Posted: 09 August 2017 07:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Advocatus - 09 August 2017 06:39 AM
webplodder - 09 August 2017 03:20 AM
Tanny - 16 July 2017 09:13 AM
webplodder - 15 July 2017 07:59 AM

What do you think about the theory that some of these high performance UFOs are top secret experimental aircraft?

Seems a theory reasonable.  Surely there are secret aircraft, and it’s surely possible some have been spotted by civilians.

It seems to me the question boils down to this. 

1) Are _ANY_ of the sightings real UFOs?  All that’s needed is a single valid case to make the UFO believers on the right track.

OR:

2) Are _ALL_ the many thousands of sightings all false, mistakes, frauds etc.  Is every single one of these thousands of cases not a real UFO?  This is what’s required to make the skeptics right.

I don’t claim to know the answer, I’m just trying to do the math. 

My best guess for now is that something unknown is flying around up there.  I’m less willing to jump on the “it must be aliens” bandwagon.  Something unknown does not automatically equal alien life forms from across the galaxy.

Yep, that seems a reasonable approach to me. Okay, I daresay most sightings have a rational explanation but it only takes a single genuine case to be true which is why we need to examine all cases just in case.  grin

It would be reasonable if there was a good reason to believe any one specific sighting was a “single genuine case”.  A long time ago, the government DID take UFOs very seriously and investigate them.  It was called Project Blue Book.  Once they realized that there was nothing to it, they decided to stop wasting their time.  This isn’t to say that there is a pat explanation for every single UFO sighting anyone has ever reported.  It’s just that there is no good reason to think that any of these sightings wasn’t just a misinterpretation.

Here’s what you should be asking:  Why isn’t the major news media all over this?  If there were really some fire behind all this smoke, wouldn’t they have their top investigators on it?  Wouldn’t they have blown the lid off this “massive government cover up” a long time ago?  To me this is highly suggestive.  Sure, the media love to run uncritical stories about UFOs because people are interested in them.  But how often have you ever seen a serious follow up to any of them?  That suggests to me that the media don’t take them any more seriously than the government does.  I don’t take “documentaries” seriously because it’s too easy to make something appear to be a great paranormal mystery by simply leaving out inconvenient information.  I’m sorry to say that the UFO community has a long and colorful history of making up the facts to suit their theories.  It’s unfortunate because if they didn’t have that history, people might take them seriously.

The topic of UFOs fascinates me because I’m interested in why people are drawn so strongly to that particular idea.  I suspect it has something to do with dissociation, a failure to adequately separate fantasy from reality.  People believe in them because doing so makes life more interesting.

Well, I think the media is part of the problem because they generally treat UFO’s reports as kind of a ‘looney-tunes’ sideshow and do not look at them with a critical eye. The reason is obvious - they just want to catch people’s attention in order to sell newspapers. But, I wonder if there was ever a genuine case whether the media would run the story, or even be allowed to because it could cause public unrest. I sometimes wonder if there isn’t an intentional policy of exaggerating interesting sightings in order to debunk them so as to keep the real facts away from the public. If you look into some cases there are still open questions that have, as yet, to be answered. One case comes to mind of a pilot who witnessed a couple of huge UFO’s close-up en-route to Alaska flying a JAL freighter. Now, these ‘objects’ were tracked on JFK radar and the supervisor at the time kept printouts of the radar data which has been openly reported yet we hear nothing more. There’s other cases too which have not been explained away.

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Posted: 09 August 2017 07:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Why wouldn’t the news media want to investigate something as important as this, if they really thought there was something to it?

And the FAA did investigate the JAL “sighting” you’re talking about.  Their conclusion was that the so-called object HADN’T been tracked on radar after all.  In fact, other aircraft in the area didn’t see the thing, which was supposed to be larger than an aircraft carrier.  I don’t know what the pilot actually saw, but there was no confirmation of it.

http://badufos.blogspot.com/search?q=jal+ufo

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Posted: 09 August 2017 08:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Advocatus - 09 August 2017 07:50 AM

Why wouldn’t the news media want to investigate something as important as this, if they really thought there was something to it?

And the FAA did investigate the JAL “sighting” you’re talking about.  Their conclusion was that the so-called object HADN’T been tracked on radar after all.  In fact, other aircraft in the area didn’t see the thing, which was supposed to be larger than an aircraft carrier.  I don’t know what the pilot actually saw, but there was no confirmation of it.

http://badufos.blogspot.com/search?q=jal+ufo

And so, the debunking machines grinds into action….

What about the radar data? Don’t tell me, you just don’t think there are any genuine cases, do you?

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Posted: 11 August 2017 06:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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You call it “debunking”, I call it “investigating”.  I’m not trying to give you a hard time.  I’m not out to convert you or anything.  I just think this is a fascinating topic.  You just have to decide what sounds more reasonable to you.  <shrug>

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Posted: 14 August 2017 07:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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I realize that there are a lot of sightings which haven’t been entirely explained, but for many of them we just don’t have enough information, or the sighting is unconfirmed.  The JAL flight 1638, for example.  If the rest of the crew had witnessed the UFO, or if the crew and passengers of other planes had witnessed it, we’d really have something unexplained.  But they didn’t.  The copilot sitting right beside him didn’t see the UFO.  He saw a bright light that the pilot pointed out to him, but he couldn’t say what it was.

If you care to cite some other sightings you think are interesting, I’d be fascinated.  I promise to try and hold my tongue and confine myself to saying, “Wow, that’s remarkable,” or words to that effect.  (I can’t speak for others, though.  This is a Center for Inquiry forum, after all.)

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Posted: 14 August 2017 06:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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webplodder - 09 August 2017 03:24 AM
LoisL - 16 July 2017 12:05 PM
Tanny - 16 July 2017 09:03 AM
LoisL - 15 July 2017 08:17 AM

While it’s an interesting idea, it doesn’t rise to a scientific theory.

Who said anything about scientific theory?  We’re talking about the documentaries linked above.  Please watch them so you can comment intelligently and add something useful to the thread.  Once you’ve watched the documentaries you are not obligated to agree with anything, but at least you would then be on topic, and your challenges would be relevant and informed.

LoisL - 15 July 2017 08:17 AM

When you can come up with any objective evidence to support it rather than wishful thinking, it might be worth exploring. Until then, it’s a waste of time. Interesting ideas with no evidence are a dime a dozen.

We’re talking about UFO’s and NOT Lois’s self flattering self image as a hard core realistic science worshiping superior laser sharp reasoner person blah, blah, blah etc and other emotional ego inflating poses.  If you wish to talk about Lois and her ego, please start another thread on that topic.  Thank you.

Your opinions mean nothing here. I thought I was on your ignore list. If not, please do so now.

LoisL, why don’t you just calm down and be nice?  grin

I am calm and I am nice to rational people. That has served me well for many years. Why should I be nice to fools? Are you?

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Posted: 14 August 2017 06:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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webplodder - 09 August 2017 08:05 AM
Advocatus - 09 August 2017 07:50 AM

Why wouldn’t the news media want to investigate something as important as this, if they really thought there was something to it?

And the FAA did investigate the JAL “sighting” you’re talking about.  Their conclusion was that the so-called object HADN’T been tracked on radar after all.  In fact, other aircraft in the area didn’t see the thing, which was supposed to be larger than an aircraft carrier.  I don’t know what the pilot actually saw, but there was no confirmation of it.

http://badufos.blogspot.com/search?q=jal+ufo

And so, the debunking machines grinds into action….

What about the radar data? Don’t tell me, you just don’t think there are any genuine cases, do you?


Has there been any objective evidence of “genuine” cases? If so I must have missed it. Maybe you can direct me to the actual evidence.

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