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Why Ancient Wisdom
Posted: 26 June 2017 06:40 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Why is it that people seem to regard just about anything old as being full of wisdom? Would they trust medical advice from three hundred years ago versus the latest from their doctor? No.

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Posted: 26 June 2017 08:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Well, some do. Otherwise smart people fall for “eat like your grandma”, or have you ever talked to an anti-vaxxer? I like ancient wisdom because I like to know where things came from, but if we’ve improved on it, I’ll go worry that.

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Posted: 26 June 2017 09:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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CuthbertJ - 26 June 2017 06:40 PM

Why is it that people seem to regard just about anything old as being full of wisdom?

I think a part of it is that ancient people were more in touch with the rhythms of the natural world
and had more appreciation for the many connections between the ‘nature world’ such as the animal kingdom and wild nature and our own lives.

Lordie knows that archeology constantly reveals their actual intelligence and intuition was pretty damned astounding.
Think origins of tools and metallurgy and cool scat like that.

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Posted: 01 July 2017 02:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 26 June 2017 09:13 PM
CuthbertJ - 26 June 2017 06:40 PM

Why is it that people seem to regard just about anything old as being full of wisdom?

I think a part of it is that ancient people were more in touch with the rhythms of the natural world
and had more appreciation for the many connections between the ‘nature world’ such as the animal kingdom and wild nature and our own lives.

Lordie knows that archeology constantly reveals their actual intelligence and intuition was pretty damned astounding.
Think origins of tools and metallurgy and cool scat like that.

I think there is a lot in this. Perhaps ancient people were more in touch with there true nature and not bedazzled by the technological marvels we experience today. For this reason, I think there does exist a lot of ‘folk wisdom’ in some of these old adages.

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Posted: 01 July 2017 04:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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It might be helpful to distinguish between technical knowledge, and commentary on the human condition.  Technical knowledge has obviously changed dramatically, making the ancients less useful commentators on that subject.  But the fundamental human condition has not changed in thousands of years, so they were as qualified to discuss this as we are.

The fundamental human condition is very important, because that’s what drives what we do with the technical knowledge.

I agree with the comments above regarding the ancient’s relationship with nature.  They were more in touch with the real world than we are on average, because they didn’t have so many symbolic distractions.  They had a strong relationship with nature, whereas we are more likely to have a strong relationship with ideas about nature. 

Another issue is that ancient writing had centuries to mature.  A lot of the junk writing in ancient times has presumably been discarded along the way by succeeding generations, generating a higher signal to noise ratio than is possible in modern times when so much of what we are discussing now was thought and written quite recently.

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Posted: 11 July 2017 01:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Tanny - 01 July 2017 04:50 AM

It might be helpful to distinguish between technical knowledge, and commentary on the human condition.  Technical knowledge has obviously changed dramatically, making the ancients less useful commentators on that subject.  But the fundamental human condition has not changed in thousands of years, so they were as qualified to discuss this as we are.

The fundamental human condition is very important, because that’s what drives what we do with the technical knowledge.

I agree with the comments above regarding the ancient’s relationship with nature.  They were more in touch with the real world than we are on average, because they didn’t have so many symbolic distractions.  They had a strong relationship with nature, whereas we are more likely to have a strong relationship with ideas about nature. 

Another issue is that ancient writing had centuries to mature.  A lot of the junk writing in ancient times has presumably been discarded along the way by succeeding generations, generating a higher signal to noise ratio than is possible in modern times when so much of what we are discussing now was thought and written quite recently.

Yep, we are so embedded in technology nowadays that it isn’t easy to experience the very spiritual relationship our forerunners had with the world. I think there is a danger here of automatically dismissing ancient spiritual states that cannot be scientifically verified, yet may have had a reality of their own that we are not equipped nowadays to appreciate.

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Posted: 28 February 2018 05:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Ancient wisdom works when you test it against your own gut and experience. It speaks to the popularity of philosophical branches such as stoicism.

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Posted: 01 March 2018 11:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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jencampster - 28 February 2018 05:58 PM

Ancient wisdom works when you test it against your own gut and experience. It speaks to the popularity of philosophical branches such as stoicism.

Huh? Can you give an example?

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Posted: 02 March 2018 07:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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CuthbertJ - 01 March 2018 11:20 AM
jencampster - 28 February 2018 05:58 PM

Ancient wisdom works when you test it against your own gut and experience. It speaks to the popularity of philosophical branches such as stoicism.

Huh? Can you give an example?

Here is one example which is used in many philosophies of human existence.

Stoicism is a school of Hellenistic philosophy that flourished throughout the Roman and Greek world until the 3rd century AD. Stoicism is predominantly a philosophy of personal ethics which is informed by its system of logic and its views on the natural world. According to its teachings, as social beings, the path to happiness for humans is found in accepting this moment as it presents itself, by not allowing ourselves to be controlled by our desire for pleasure or our fear of pain, by using our minds to understand the world around us and to do our part in nature’s plan, and by working together and treating others in a fair and just manner.

This philosophy can be found in almost every religious or secular human environment.

The moment I read this I thought of Buddha, Christ, Ghandi, Bill of Rights (and responsibilities), etc.
It is an enduring human concept, also found in nature itself.

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Posted: 04 March 2018 10:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Write4U - 02 March 2018 07:51 PM
CuthbertJ - 01 March 2018 11:20 AM
jencampster - 28 February 2018 05:58 PM

Ancient wisdom works when you test it against your own gut and experience. It speaks to the popularity of philosophical branches such as stoicism.

Huh? Can you give an example?

Here is one example which is used in many philosophies of human existence.

Stoicism is a school of Hellenistic philosophy that flourished throughout the Roman and Greek world until the 3rd century AD. Stoicism is predominantly a philosophy of personal ethics which is informed by its system of logic and its views on the natural world. According to its teachings, as social beings, the path to happiness for humans is found in accepting this moment as it presents itself, by not allowing ourselves to be controlled by our desire for pleasure or our fear of pain, by using our minds to understand the world around us and to do our part in nature’s plan, and by working together and treating others in a fair and just manner.

This philosophy can be found in almost every religious or secular human environment.

The moment I read this I thought of Buddha, Christ, Ghandi, Bill of Rights (and responsibilities), etc.
It is an enduring human concept, also found in nature itself.


Stoicism
Zeno
The “x” in xeno- is pronounced “z”; “zeno”.
Xeno- definition, a combining form meaning “alien,” “strange,” “guest,”…
Xenophobia is the irrational fear and distrust of that which is perceived to be foreign or strange.
 
The word stoic comes from a root word meaning “Painted Porch.” Zeno, the founder of Stoicism, who taught his followers to equally endure and be silent about both pain and pleasure, frequented and taught in the “Painted Porch;” hence, someone stoic is “like” someone of the “Painted Porch.”. internet
Stoicism originated as a Hellenistic philosophy, founded in Athens by Zeno of Citium (modern day Cyprus), c. 300 B.C.E. It was influenced by Socrates and the Cynics, and it engaged in vigorous debates with the Skeptics, the Academics, and the Epicureans. The name comes from the Stoa Poikile, or painted porch, an open market in Athens where the original Stoics used to meet and teach philosophy. internet
 
The Center for Inquiry isn’t just a think tank—we’re a world-wide movement of humanists, skeptics, freethinkers, and atheists, all working together at the grassroots level to advance scientific and secular values where we live. internet
 
Paul’s moral teaching as it appears in his Epistles reveals some resemblance to Stoic ethics. it is possible that Paul had learnt much from the Stoic school at Tarsus. It is certain that subsequent Christian thought owed much to Stoicism. Its doctrine of the immanent Logos was combined with Philo’s conception of the transcendent Logos, to form the Logos doctrine through which the Greek Fathers construed the …  internet
 
Stoicism and Christianity. I have always found it remarkable that the philosophy known as stoicism that was developed before Christ was born and that had its anticedents in Greek culture could bear such a close affinity with Christianity. This work explores this affinity via a thorough investigation of one of the premier works of Stoicism, the ... internet

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Posted: 04 March 2018 12:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Okay, I’m going to ask a dumb question, since no one knows who I am anyway. WTF is Hellenism?

I know it’s a period of time, but I never hear much more than it be a libralization of ideas or something. Is it a specific philosophy, or if you say “Hellenistic philosopher” does that just mean a philosopher from around that time and place?

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Posted: 05 March 2018 10:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Lausten - 04 March 2018 12:03 PM

Okay, I’m going to ask a dumb question, since no one knows who I am anyway. WTF is Hellenism?

I know it’s a period of time, but I never hear much more than it be a libralization of ideas or something. Is it a specific philosophy, or if you say “Hellenistic philosopher” does that just mean a philosopher from around that time and place?

this may be of assistance.

Hellenistic religion is any of the various systems of beliefs and practices of the people who lived under the influence of ancient Greek culture during the Hellenistic period and the Roman Empire (c. 300 BCE to 300 CE). There was much continuity in Hellenistic religion: the Greek gods continued to be worshipped, and the same rites were practiced as before.

Change came from the addition of new religions from other countries, including the Egyptian deities Isis and Serapis, and the Syrian Gods of Atargatis and of Hadad, which provided a new outlet for people seeking fulfillment in both the present life and the afterlife. The worship of Hellenistic rulers was also a feature of this period, most notably in Egypt, where the Ptolemies adopted earlier pharaonic practice, and established themselves as god-kings. Elsewhere rulers might receive divine status without the full status of a God.

Magic was practiced widely, and this too, was a continuation from earlier times. Throughout the Hellenistic world, people would consult oracles, and use charms and figurines to deter misfortune or to cast spells. Also developed in this era was the complex system of astrology, which sought to determine a person’s character and future in the movements of the sun, moon, and planets. The systems of Hellenistic philosophy, such as Stoicism and Epicureanism, offered an alternative to traditional religion, even if their impact was largely limited to the educated elite.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenistic_religion

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Posted: 05 March 2018 11:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Didn’t occur to me look under “Hellenistic Religion”. I usually see it in more of a social influence context. This broad view of it makes sense. It wasn’t so much one point of view, as a cultural mixing, a la carte thing.

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Posted: 07 March 2018 11:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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The Hellenistic thinking was alive and at the top of the caste when it come to wealth and controlling the olive oil industry at the time of Jesus. What Jesus was doing that show genius was to run for office were the local people were a combination of Hellenistic, Ra, and Jewish thinking. He did this by using wisdom. The oldest form of religion from the past that all other religions evolved from, called gnostic (knowledge). Parts of the bible are addressing one of the groups and you will only understand this and the meanings if you understand the views of the three separate groups.
 
For example, the Egyptian thinking, which a lot of Christian religions comes from, uses the term “light”.  That is how knowledge and wisdom reached your heart is by light. From the sun where the god Ra lived. The Hellenistic on the other hand believed in the brain and not the light. Tuff political crowd to have to deal with. Take Psalm 119 “Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path.” That would be for the Egyptian crowd. Or, Corinthians 4:6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.”
 
Jesus’s form of Christianity was Gnostic. Gnostic means “knowledge”. A religion built on older wisdom. What a different would it would have been if the political movements at Rome had went the other way for the fate of Jesus.

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Posted: 07 March 2018 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Typo, what a different world ... not would. Spam filter would not let me fit the error. Sorry.

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Posted: 08 March 2018 07:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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MikeYohe - 07 March 2018 11:48 AM

 
Jesus’s form of Christianity was Gnostic. Gnostic means “knowledge”. A religion built on older wisdom. What a different would it would have been if the political movements at Rome had went the other way for the fate of Jesus.

Alright, I know this is stupid, but, what other way? Letting him go? Crowning him king? Walking like Egyptians?

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