3 of 4
3
A Great Question
Posted: 10 July 2017 05:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  225
Joined  2017-07-06
Tanny - 10 July 2017 04:43 AM
LoisL - 09 July 2017 10:30 PM

Everybody rots in the ground (if they’re buried) whether they believe in god and an afterlife or not. It isn’t the body that they believe goes to heaven (or hell), it’s the soul. It’s odd that few theists ever think that they, themselves, or their loved ones will go to hell, even knowing they would deserve it under the terms of their own religion. They’ll trot out god’s mercy, for one thing, no matter what scripture says to the contrary.

You’ve completely ignored the challenge presented, pretty normal behavior for atheist ideologues.[/quote

[ Edited: 10 July 2017 05:16 AM by Adamski ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 July 2017 10:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4069
Joined  2009-10-21
Adamski - 10 July 2017 05:09 AM
Tanny - 10 July 2017 04:43 AM
LoisL - 09 July 2017 10:30 PM

Everybody rots in the ground (if they’re buried) whether they believe in god and an afterlife or not. It isn’t the body that they believe goes to heaven (or hell), it’s the soul. It’s odd that few theists ever think that they, themselves, or their loved ones will go to hell, even knowing they would deserve it under the terms of their own religion. They’ll trot out god’s mercy, for one thing, no matter what scripture says to the contrary.

You’ve completely ignored the challenge presented, pretty normal behavior for atheist ideologues.[/quote

Great, now we’ve got two new members who only allow participation in their questions if you stick to their framing. The responses have been that the call for rational thinking does NOT end with religion. The challenges Adamski has presented wouldn’t even exist if there weren’t rational thinkers out there writing entire books challenging the irrational ideas. We’d still be living in a feudal system, with no coherent arguments for why it wasn’t good for everybody.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 July 2017 11:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4253
Joined  2014-06-20
Lausten - 10 July 2017 10:14 AM
Adamski - 10 July 2017 05:09 AM
Tanny - 10 July 2017 04:43 AM
LoisL - 09 July 2017 10:30 PM

Everybody rots in the ground (if they’re buried) whether they believe in god and an afterlife or not. It isn’t the body that they believe goes to heaven (or hell), it’s the soul. It’s odd that few theists ever think that they, themselves, or their loved ones will go to hell, even knowing they would deserve it under the terms of their own religion. They’ll trot out god’s mercy, for one thing, no matter what scripture says to the contrary.

You’ve completely ignored the challenge presented, pretty normal behavior for atheist ideologues.[/quote

Great, now we’ve got two new members who only allow participation in their questions if you stick to their framing. The responses have been that the call for rational thinking does NOT end with religion. The challenges Adamski has presented wouldn’t even exist if there weren’t rational thinkers out there writing entire books challenging the irrational ideas. We’d still be living in a feudal system, with no coherent arguments for why it wasn’t good for everybody.

Hear, hear!

 Signature 

[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 July 2017 11:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4253
Joined  2014-06-20
Adamski - 10 July 2017 05:09 AM
Tanny - 10 July 2017 04:43 AM
LoisL - 09 July 2017 10:30 PM

Everybody rots in the ground (if they’re buried) whether they believe in god and an afterlife or not. It isn’t the body that they believe goes to heaven (or hell), it’s the soul. It’s odd that few theists ever think that they, themselves, or their loved ones will go to hell, even knowing they would deserve it under the terms of their own religion. They’ll trot out god’s mercy, for one thing, no matter what scripture says to the contrary.

You’ve completely ignored the challenge presented, pretty normal behavior for atheist ideologues.[/quote

I didn’t ignore it. Your question was why rational thinking stops at religion. I presented an example of religious irrational thinking. You simply didn"t like my answer so you decided to label it as not answering your question, which is typical of mindless idealogues.

 Signature 

[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 July 2017 12:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4069
Joined  2009-10-21

I didn’t watch out of misquoting above, so it looks like Adamski said my words, which in the outer most quoted section of my post. Then Lois quoted it all again.

And if you don’t change your post much when editing, it looks like spam. So, let’s just delete this whole thread. smile


And now I really have no idea who is saying what to whom about what. A little more clarifying and little less squabbling please.

[ Edited: 10 July 2017 12:28 PM by Lausten ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 July 2017 02:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  225
Joined  2017-07-06
Lausten - 10 July 2017 12:25 PM

I didn’t watch out of misquoting above, so it looks like Adamski said my words, which in the outer most quoted section of my post. Then Lois quoted it all again.

And if you don’t change your post much when editing, it looks like spam. So, let’s just delete this whole thread. smile


And now I really have no idea who is saying what to whom about what. A little more clarifying and little less squabbling please.

Tanny thinks that it is rational to believe the supernatural exists!!! A real thinker!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 July 2017 04:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  249
Joined  2017-06-25

Lois, you claimed…

Theistic religion is the antithesis of rational thinking.

I replied with the following analysis of the rational basis for both theism and atheism.

Theists claim we go to heaven after death. Atheists claim we rot in the ground, and that’s it. Neither side can prove anything.

Should we choose a theory which gives people hope, and encourages them to earn heaven through constructive behavior? Or should we choose a theory which promises nothing as a reward for all our efforts?

We can’t separate these theories on the basis of fantasy, because both are fantasy.  The theist thinks they know, the atheist thinks they know, but the truth is nobody has a clue what death is.

Which is the most rational theory Lois?

 Signature 

Countdown To Zero - Nuclear Weapons Documentary

Profile
 
 
Posted: 14 July 2017 09:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  219
Joined  2015-03-13
Adamski - 06 July 2017 04:36 AM

Why does rational thinking stop at religion? Where is the thoughtful objective analysis of economic theory based on observations of the socioeconomic outcomes for the masses from people who champion critical thinking?


https://things-that-matter.net/2017/07/05/why-doesnt-richard-dawkins-ever-debunk-us-militarism-trickle-down-economics-or-corporate-media-propaganda/

I think the irrationality of religions is more obvious than that of economic theories and their outcomes,

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 July 2017 12:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4253
Joined  2014-06-20
Tanny - 10 July 2017 04:01 PM

Lois, you claimed…

Theistic religion is the antithesis of rational thinking.

I replied with the following analysis of the rational basis for both theism and atheism.

Theists claim we go to heaven after death. Atheists claim we rot in the ground, and that’s it. Neither side can prove anything.

Should we choose a theory which gives people hope, and encourages them to earn heaven through constructive behavior? Or should we choose a theory which promises nothing as a reward for all our efforts?

We can’t separate these theories on the basis of fantasy, because both are fantasy.  The theist thinks they know, the atheist thinks they know, but the truth is nobody has a clue what death is.

Which is the most rational theory Lois?

You completey misunderstand atheism. The atheist doesn’t say he knows whether there is an afterlife or not. He says there is no evidence of one so he sees no reason to waste his time believing in one. That people need the “comfort” of belief is wrong. Atheists do well without it. I don’t see any atheists pining for the “comfort”  of religion. There is a lot more comfort in rational thinking.

 Signature 

[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 July 2017 12:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4253
Joined  2014-06-20
Tanny - 10 July 2017 04:01 PM

Lois, you claimed…

Theistic religion is the antithesis of rational thinking.

I replied with the following analysis of the rational basis for both theism and atheism.

Theists claim we go to heaven after death. Atheists claim we rot in the ground, and that’s it. Neither side can prove anything.

Should we choose a theory which gives people hope, and encourages them to earn heaven through constructive behavior? Or should we choose a theory which promises nothing as a reward for all our efforts?

We can’t separate these theories on the basis of fantasy, because both are fantasy.  The theist thinks they know, the atheist thinks they know, but the truth is nobody has a clue what death is.

Which is the most rational theory Lois?

The atheist position, which isn’t a theory, incidentally.

We should choose a position that makes more sense. The atheist position makes more sense to me. Atheists don’t worry about their “lives” ending when they die. We go by what we can know.  If you’re a rational person you won’t need the “comfort” of silly fairytales. You grow up.

 Signature 

[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 July 2017 01:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  225
Joined  2017-07-06
LoisL - 15 July 2017 12:05 AM
Tanny - 10 July 2017 04:01 PM

Lois, you claimed…

Theistic religion is the antithesis of rational thinking.

I replied with the following analysis of the rational basis for both theism and atheism.

Theists claim we go to heaven after death. Atheists claim we rot in the ground, and that’s it. Neither side can prove anything.

Should we choose a theory which gives people hope, and encourages them to earn heaven through constructive behavior? Or should we choose a theory which promises nothing as a reward for all our efforts?

We can’t separate these theories on the basis of fantasy, because both are fantasy.  The theist thinks they know, the atheist thinks they know, but the truth is nobody has a clue what death is.

Which is the most rational theory Lois?

The atheist position, which isn’t a theory, incidentally.

We should choose a position that makes more sense. The atheist position makes more sense to me. Atheists don’t worry about their “lives” ending when they die. We go by what we can know.  If you’re a rational person you won’t need the “comfort” of silly fairytales. You grow up.

if you are an atheist - you reject the claim that there is a God. Thats it. Atheism does not claim anything else. Dawkins claims the rational thinking people arrive at this position when it comes to supernatural claims. The point of thread is rational thinking from the likes of Dawkins doesnt seem to be equally applied in over areas of our lives such as economic.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 July 2017 04:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  249
Joined  2017-06-25
LoisL - 15 July 2017 12:00 AM

You completey misunderstand atheism.

Sorry, not true, I understand it far better than all the little baby atheist ideologues on the Internuts.

Forum atheists have a faith based belief that human reason is qualified to meaningfully address the very largest of questions, an un-examined assumption for which there is no proof whatsoever.  It’s not even a credible claim, given how small and insane we are in comparison to “all of reality” the realm being addressed by god claims.

That people need the “comfort” of belief is wrong. Atheists do well without it.

It appears you have not the slightest idea what you’re talking about, which in your defense is entirely normal on this topic, including among many very famous atheists.

I just outlined your faith based belief above, which you don’t even realize you have, that’s how deep the faith is.  The fact that even atheists who loudly reject faith belief themselves have a faith based belief, reveals how strong the human need for answers is.

The only difference between you and Jehovah’s Witnesses is that you have a different totally unproven faith based belief than they do.  The poses of superiority claimed by BOTH SIDES are entirely fantasy, a triumph of ego over reason.

 Signature 

Countdown To Zero - Nuclear Weapons Documentary

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 July 2017 04:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  225
Joined  2017-07-06
Tanny - 15 July 2017 04:24 AM
LoisL - 15 July 2017 12:00 AM

You completey misunderstand atheism.

Sorry, not true, I understand it far better than all the little baby atheist ideologues on the Internuts.

Forum atheists have a faith based belief that human reason is qualified to meaningfully address the very largest of questions, an un-examined assumption for which there is no proof whatsoever.  It’s not even a credible claim, given how small and insane we are in comparison to “all of reality” the realm being addressed by god claims.

That people need the “comfort” of belief is wrong. Atheists do well without it.

It appears you have not the slightest idea what you’re talking about, which in your defense is entirely normal on this topic, including among many very famous atheists.

I just outlined your faith based belief above, which you don’t even realize you have, that’s how deep the faith is.  The fact that even atheists who loudly reject faith belief themselves have a faith based belief, reveals how strong the human need for answers is.

The only difference between you and Jehovah’s Witnesses is that you have a different totally unproven faith based belief than they do.  The poses of superiority claimed by BOTH SIDES are entirely fantasy, a triumph of ego over reason.

Atheism has nothing to do with faith. Your ignorance is really annoying

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 July 2017 05:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4069
Joined  2009-10-21

I’m not going to summarize this for you because you are resistant to evidence, but look up this author and this topic and you will find some excellent research on how people get a sense of in-group loyalty from religion. They can get the same thing from non-religious groups, there are just fewer of them right now. They don’t dominate the landscape like religion does.
https://www.amazon.com/Nonreligious-Understanding-Secular-People-Societies/dp/0199924945

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 July 2017 08:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4253
Joined  2014-06-20
Adamski - 15 July 2017 01:24 AM
LoisL - 15 July 2017 12:05 AM
Tanny - 10 July 2017 04:01 PM

Lois, you claimed…

Theistic religion is the antithesis of rational thinking.

I replied with the following analysis of the rational basis for both theism and atheism.

Theists claim we go to heaven after death. Atheists claim we rot in the ground, and that’s it. Neither side can prove anything.

Should we choose a theory which gives people hope, and encourages them to earn heaven through constructive behavior? Or should we choose a theory which promises nothing as a reward for all our efforts?

We can’t separate these theories on the basis of fantasy, because both are fantasy.  The theist thinks they know, the atheist thinks they know, but the truth is nobody has a clue what death is.

Which is the most rational theory Lois?

The atheist position, which isn’t a theory, incidentally.

We should choose a position that makes more sense. The atheist position makes more sense to me. Atheists don’t worry about their “lives” ending when they die. We go by what we can know.  If you’re a rational person you won’t need the “comfort” of silly fairytales. You grow up.

if you are an atheist - you reject the claim that there is a God. Thats it. Atheism does not claim anything else. Dawkins claims the rational thinking people arrive at this position when it comes to supernatural claims. The point of thread is rational thinking from the likes of Dawkins doesnt seem to be equally applied in over areas of our lives such as economic.

You’re right about what atheism is. But those who have come to atheism through rational thinking, tend to apply it to everything else. Everybody is irrational or just wrong about something. Rational thinking is applied to such things as economics. It’s just that people tend to label anything as irrational that they disagree with. The proof of the pudding is in the evidence.

 Signature 

[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

Profile
 
 
   
3 of 4
3