The evolutionary definition of good and bad
Posted: 16 July 2017 09:22 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Note to Reader: Since there are a lot of packets, then I will narrow it down to the ones you need to read. If you don’t wish to read all of these packets which explain how I define my own values and morality (as well as other concepts pertaining to my personal life), then just read the summary packet which sums up very briefly my whole philosophy.

But if you have the time to read at least 2, 3, or 4 packets, then I would also highly recommend reading packet #4, #5, and #6 since they are the 2nd most important packets you need to read. Also, just to let you know, the final packet (#14) has an actual conversation between me and someone else.

I will now proceed to present the Deviant Art links to all my packets.

Here are the Deviant Art links:

Summary Packet:  http://fav.me/dbgkmdl

#1: http://fav.me/dbgif18

#2: http://fav.me/dbdjr9g

#3: http://fav.me/dbda76j

#4: http://fav.me/dbeivqu

#5: http://fav.me/dbc55yl

#6: http://fav.me/dbg3ikh

#7: http://fav.me/dbflptn

#8: http://fav.me/dbda7dz

#9: http://fav.me/dbftmc1

#10: http://fav.me/dbc4hm4

#11: http://fav.me/dbe6jcj

#12: http://fav.me/dbc4h3l

#13: http://fav.me/dbc4hqf

#14: http://fav.me/dbc4w49

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Posted: 16 July 2017 10:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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TranscendedRealms - 16 July 2017 09:22 PM

Note to Reader: Since there are a lot of packets, then I will narrow it down to the ones you need to read.

Note to Writer: that totally sucks.  We don’t want you vomiting someone’s else’s spiel.

We’re hoping for constructive dialogue.
Show us you got a brain that works !  angry

Toss a bloated title like “The evolutionary definition of good and bad” at us - I, ... we would hope you’d at least be capable of introducing your subject and what point you’re trying to make.
Instead you show up like that dazed looking fellow with a self lettered picket sign that passers-by can’t make any sense out of.

Why is substantive conversation sooo difficult to find.   hmmm

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Posted: 16 July 2017 10:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 16 July 2017 10:05 PM
TranscendedRealms - 16 July 2017 09:22 PM

Note to Reader: Since there are a lot of packets, then I will narrow it down to the ones you need to read.

Note to Writer: that totally sucks.  We don’t want you vomiting someone’s else’s spiel.

We’re hoping for constructive dialogue.
Show us you got a brain that works !  angry

Toss a bloated title like “The evolutionary definition of good and bad” at us - I, ... we would hope you’d at least be capable of introducing your subject and what point you’re trying to make.
Instead you show up like that dazed looking fellow with a self lettered picket sign that passers-by can’t make any sense out of.

Why is substantive conversation sooo difficult to find.   hmmm

I did introduce my subject and summarized it very briefly in the summary packet which I told you and others to read if you and others did not have the time and patience to read my other packets.  The summary packet gives a very brief and effective summary of my whole philosophy.

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Posted: 17 July 2017 12:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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TranscendedRealms - 16 July 2017 10:09 PM
Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 16 July 2017 10:05 PM
TranscendedRealms - 16 July 2017 09:22 PM

Note to Reader: Since there are a lot of packets, then I will narrow it down to the ones you need to read.

Note to Writer: that totally sucks.  We don’t want you vomiting someone’s else’s spiel.

We’re hoping for constructive dialogue.
Show us you got a brain that works !  angry

Toss a bloated title like “The evolutionary definition of good and bad” at us - I, ... we would hope you’d at least be capable of introducing your subject and what point you’re trying to make.
Instead you show up like that dazed looking fellow with a self lettered picket sign that passers-by can’t make any sense out of.

Why is substantive conversation sooo difficult to find.   hmmm

I did introduce my subject and summarized it very briefly in the summary packet which I told you and others to read if you and others did not have the time and patience to read my other packets.  The summary packet gives a very brief and effective summary of my whole philosophy.

Which you can’t do in your own words. If that’s the case we’re better off not knowing what it is.

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[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

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Posted: 17 July 2017 04:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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With the mention of “anhedonic people”, I’ve got a bad feeling about this.

And it’s terrible. It reads like the book of Romans, “good feels good, bad is bad, if you feel good it’s like seeing good, it’s good because it’s good.”

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Posted: 17 July 2017 07:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Therefore, depressed and anhedonic people are living lives that have no good value, no worth, and they don’t even realize it.  Some actually do.  But some don’t and, unfortunately, still think their lives have real good value and happiness.

If you are someone who looks up porn, is attracted to the same or opposite sex, or is even a pedophile who is attracted and aroused by little children, then I see that as being put into the positive category.

Therefore, I can honestly conclude here that how I feel is correlated with the value and worth I have in my life.

There are some troubling notions here.
People have value despite their feelings . Ever heard the expression “If it doesn’t kill you it makes you stronger.”?
Evolution is never 100% successful. It throws in some undesirable notions which get weeded out. It also generates a spectrum of any trait where the distribution can change over time in response to natural selection. I would agree that feelings are an evolutionary mechanism to encourage successful behaviors but I would also suggest that the wiring between what is good for society and what feels good to an individual can go very wrong in some individual. The guiding principal isn’t what individuals feel about certain actions, it is what we collectively feel. That tends to compensate for the “deviants” and is generally formalized into law.
You have to be very careful about generalizing your own feelings and experiences to others. We are all individuals, likely with essential differences that others cannot even imagine so you cannot equate everyone else to yourself.

[ Edited: 17 July 2017 07:27 AM by JohnH ]
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Posted: 17 July 2017 10:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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My bad feeling is that this is another incarnation of Mozart Link. Search his user profile if you are not familiar with him.

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Posted: 17 July 2017 10:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Lastly, I will now present to you another person’s response to my summary and my reply to it.  This is to clear some things up and address some issues others might have with my whole philosophy:

Other Person’s Response:  Let me emphasize the importance of the non feeling values.  Where would we be without them?  If your life was in danger and you couldn’t feel anything, then you would get yourself killed because escaping from said danger would be of no value to you.  This is the type of world we would all be living in.  Life would simply be a disaster without these values.

My Reply:  I would still choose to escape from danger anyway knowing that it is a wise decision.  But said decision would be of no value to me.  Therefore, the type of world we would be living in would be a world where we would still make decisions anyway knowing that they are wise.  Like I said, we are wired for survival and it is this wiring that compels us to make choices anyway even though they would bring our lives no value or happiness.

For example, during my worst miserable times, my life was completely dead and empty.  It was absolute hell for me and there was no good value, worth, or happiness in my life whatsoever.  My life had the worst possible value.  However, I have chosen to get psychiatric help anyway knowing that my life would eventually change for the better.

Again, even knowing that my life would change for the better did not give my life any value.  But let’s pretend that I had to live the entirety of my life in this miserable state and could never recover from it, then that is when I would end my life.  There is absolutely no way I would choose to live on and on in a life that is the worst hell filled with the worst possible value.  So, as you can see here, even though I would still make wise choices in my life even without having any good value and worth in my life, I need the good value, worth, joy, beauty, and happiness in my life.

Otherwise, I would give up on life and end my life since nothing would matter to me.  I would be in a completely dead and empty state of being and living.  Even if the type of world we would all be living in would be chaos without these non feeling values, that still doesn’t change my views here.  If we were to somehow realize that these non feeling values weren’t real and the world were to become chaos, then that is just the way it is.  That is just what we are as human beings then.

During my miserable times, I am in a state of complete darkness.  I cannot see the light.  This means that I cannot see the good value or joy in anything in my life.  But once I fully recover and have my good moods/feelings, then they are the light to my life.  They allow me to see the good value and joy in my life.

If I were in a state of complete anhedonia, then that would not be a state of complete darkness.  Rather, it would be a completely blank state.  All light would be shunned out.  The same concept still applies here.  I would still not be able to see the good value in my life.  But a state of hopelessness and misery is a far worse state to be in than anhedonia because states of misery and hopelessness are hell that bring my life the experience of the absolute worst value and suffering in my life.

In other words, thoughts and outlooks alone are not the light or darkness to my life.  If I thought to myself that certain choices and decisions brought my life good value, worth, and joy during those horrible times, then it wouldn’t work to any degree for me whatsoever.  I would still be in a hellish and blank state where my life has no good value or joy.  The tone of our moods/feelings dictates the tone of our outlooks.  In other words, if you felt angry, then you will be angry.  You will have an angry outlook.

Since the tone of an angry feeling has a pessimistic tone, then your whole outlook can only have a pessimistic tone as well.  You cannot have an optimistic outlook while experiencing feelings/moods that have a pessimistic tone.  The experience of an optimistic and pessimistic tone does not come about through our thoughts and outlooks alone.  They can only come about through our moods/feelings.  When I thought to myself that my life still had good value during my miserable times, then that thought had nothing but a hopeless and dead tone.  In other words, it really wasn’t an outlook of anything having any real good value to me.

People who claim to have an optimistic tone of experience (outlook) during their depression or worst miserable times would only be fooling and deluding themselves.  As I said before, it is only our moods/feelings that possess the optimistic and pessimistic tones to give our lives good or bad value.  Thoughts and outlooks alone without our moods/feelings can only possess a mechanistic tone.  This means that they do not give our lives any real good or bad value.

This would have to mean that depressed/anhedonic people who think their lives have good value are thinking optimistic words and phrases in their mind of their lives having real good value, but their thoughts and outlooks only possess a dead and lifeless mechanistic tone and, therefore, these depressed/anhedonic people would actually not be having any real good value in their lives.  These words and phrases alone have these depressed/anhedonic people fooled into believing their lives have real good value when they don’t.

Once again, that all goes back to my personal example.  During my worst miserable moments, I have thought optimistic words and phrases of my life having real good value.  However, this tone of experience was completely dead and lifeless.  Therefore, my life really had no good value or worth to me at all.  Having good value and worth in your life can only be an optimistic tone of experience for you.

It would make no sense to say that having good value in your life is either a pessimistic tone of experience or neither optimistic nor pessimistic (i.e. mechanistic).  Since our good moods/feelings are the only experiences that possess the optimistic tone as I’ve just explained earlier, then it would obviously follow that it can only be our good moods/feelings that give our lives real good value and worth.

It would make no sense to say that having good value and worth in your life is either a pessimistic tone of experience or neither optimistic nor pessimistic (i.e. mechanistic).  Since our good moods/feelings are the only experiences that possess the optimistic tone as I’ve just explained earlier, then it would obviously follow that it can only be our good moods/feelings that give our lives real good value and worth.

For example, if someone said:

“My life is worth living,” “These things and situations have worth to me,” or “Good, I get to get what I want now.  This situation has a lot of worth to me.”

Then that is optimism.  Even if you screamed and said:

“GOOD, HE/SHE DESERVES TO DIE!!!  THAT IS WORTH SOMETHING TO ME!!!”

Then that is also optimism.  It is an optimistic outlook (experience) for you.  But, like I said, it is only the good moods/feelings we get which can give our lives optimistic tones of experience.

Other Person’s Response:  Theres so much mest up ways of thinking here. You can claim that you’re trying to not offend anyone and say you’re just expressing your view which is fine but nonetheless youre still putting depressed people into one category. You just wrote “depressed people have no good value and worth in their lives” “depressed people are living lives that have no good value and worth and dont even realize it ” are you kidding how can you glump people together like that and think that a persons feelings and mental ilness automatically equates to having no worth.

So many people that brought us great things have all been so deeply depressed. Singers, scientists, philosophers have all been people that have brought great value to our lives even with their state of depression. They enriched us with their intelligence and creative minds. There are parents who are raising children that have severe depression and manage to get up every morning and give their child a good life does that sound like someone who has no purpose and value?

“Depressed and anhedonic people are living lives that have no good value , no worth and they dont evem realize it” thats is such an ignorant stement to make and bring no one any value or use. And I can tell someone their fat and ugky and then say “hey thats just my view not trying to offend anyone ” but it doesnt make it any less offesnsive and it wont make them any less ugly or fat. Also the fact that you equate happiness and feel good feelings as people being with value is so strange to me when again so many happy people do nothing withe their lives or contribute anything to society. Depression does not determine your value as a human being and if thats how you feel about yourself than im sorry but its not good to project such harmful negativity to people that are trying to find light in their current dimmed world.

My Reply:  I said that it is only our good moods/feelings that allow us to perceive good value and worth in our lives.  I am not saying that depressed people cannot have any good value and worth to us.  I am saying that they cannot actually perceive any good value and worth in themselves and in their own lives.  If we felt good from a depressed person who has contributed to our lives, then we would be able to see that depressed person as being a wonderful person to us.  But the depressed person who helped us would not be able to perceive his/her altruistic actions as being anything good or worthwhile.

He/she might think otherwise, but, in reality, he/she is having nothing but an experience that is completely dead inside.  There literally is no good value being perceived in this person’s life at all and he/she is falsely lead into the notion that the right mindset alone creates the perception of good value in our lives when it is really our good moods/feelings that give us this perception.  I think that I have every right to express myself and my views like anyone else.  I will not be alone with them.  I do not care if people become offended by them when my intention was not to offend in the first place, but only to vent and express my views.

[ Edited: 17 July 2017 07:16 PM by TranscendedRealms ]
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Posted: 17 July 2017 11:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Yeah, sounding more and more like Mozart Link.

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Posted: 21 July 2017 11:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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I am now going to give you the link that perfectly explains my definition of good and bad.  If you don’t wish to read the entire debate, then just read what is in bold at the very beginning:

http://fav.me/dbgkmdl

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Posted: 22 July 2017 06:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Lausten - 17 July 2017 11:37 AM

Yeah, sounding more and more like Mozart Link.

At least he added something to the forum other than yet another thread clogging little one liner quip.

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Posted: 22 July 2017 06:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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TranscendedRealms - 17 July 2017 10:51 AM

I would still choose to escape from danger anyway knowing that it is a wise decision.

How do you know that escaping from danger is a wise decision? 

It seems such a conclusion depends on life being better than death, a common assumption for sure, but one for which there is no proof whatsoever.

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Posted: 22 July 2017 05:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Tanny - 22 July 2017 06:53 AM
TranscendedRealms - 17 July 2017 10:51 AM

I would still choose to escape from danger anyway knowing that it is a wise decision.

How do you know that escaping from danger is a wise decision? 

Because it is a fundamental survival response.
“Fight or flight.”
A rustle in the weeds can be a deer or a tiger.  What is the best response?

It seems such a conclusion depends on life being better than death, a common assumption for sure, but one for which there is no proof whatsoever.

Well, it is up to the individual to determine if their life is worth more than their death.

This dilemma can present itself in so many ways that it cannot be defined.  For a sick person in constant intolerable pain, death may seem preferable. For another, to place themselves in harms way to save a loved one is a noble motivation, IMO

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Posted: 23 July 2017 06:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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How do you know that escaping from danger is a wise decision? 

Because it is a fundamental survival response.

Yes, of course, but how do we know survival is in our best interests?

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Posted: 23 July 2017 11:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Tanny - 23 July 2017 06:36 AM

How do you know that escaping from danger is a wise decision? 

Because it is a fundamental survival response.

Yes, of course, but how do we know survival is in our best interests?

Mathematically there will come a point where will be unable to increase in numerical size. This absolute certainty can be explained by the Exponential function, the law that will automatically restrict unlimited expansion in a finite space.

But for living things multiplication is a fundamental drive, if it’s alive it strives to stay alive.

This is how we came to the expression “life is sacred” which of course is a completely biased viewpoint by people who are alive.  In fact we strive for immortality. But because we know we are going to die, we invented reincarnation and heaven to give us life after death.

We made the whole thing up from self-interest.  Animals have no such abstract thoughts, but they exhibit the same drive to stay alive. They just follow the natural imperative to stay alive so they can reproduce. It has nothing to do with moral considerations.

The entire concept of evolution (adaption) and natural selection (best adapted) is founded on this natural imperative.

The irony is that the simplest life forms such as insects or even pseudo-living things like viruses are the most adaptable.
The absolute simplest form of reproduction is self-similar duplication, fractals, which is how the universe itself evolves and expands. But it does so at cost of expending energy, until all energy has been expended (diffused) and universal expansion itself will come to a halt.

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