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What does it mean to be a Christian??
Posted: 17 July 2017 03:26 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Can someone tell me? Can you still call yourself a Christian if you don’t believe in the resurrection?? How about rejectiing the virgin birth? Can you still be a Christian? Redemption? Salvation?

Anyone able to answer?

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Posted: 17 July 2017 03:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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It’s a stretch. The resurrection is the central point. I think you could stop believing Jesus was a real person and rose bodily, but you have to have something about some kind of son of god, spiritual or otherwise, somehow ritually sacrificing to save you.

That said, I let people self identify and call themselves whatever they want, then explain it themselves.

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Posted: 17 July 2017 04:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Lausten - 17 July 2017 03:58 AM

It’s a stretch. The resurrection is the central point. I think you could stop believing Jesus was a real person and rose bodily, but you have to have something about some kind of son of god, spiritual or otherwise, somehow ritually sacrificing to save you.

That said, I let people self identify and call themselves whatever they want, then explain it themselves.

again you make no sense. If you could stop believing Jesus was a real person thereby rejecting the claim of an afterlife and the resurrection is central to Christianity, where does that leave you??

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Posted: 17 July 2017 06:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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What does it mean to be a Christian?
It means you’re prone to delusion. What other answer would you expect from a humanist forum?
As for the other questions, you can call yourself whatever you wish and believe whatever you wish. If doesn’t make anything more real.

[ Edited: 17 July 2017 01:21 PM by JohnH ]
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Posted: 17 July 2017 09:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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What does it mean to be a Christian?

It means you’ve prone to delusion. What other answer would you expect from a humanist forum?

Ah, I would expect a forum about critical thinking, a center for rational inquiry, to request that you please prove your claim that Christianity equals being prone to delusion.

Your claim, your burden of proof.  Let’s see it.

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Posted: 17 July 2017 10:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Adamski - 17 July 2017 04:34 AM
Lausten - 17 July 2017 03:58 AM

It’s a stretch. The resurrection is the central point. I think you could stop believing Jesus was a real person and rose bodily, but you have to have something about some kind of son of god, spiritual or otherwise, somehow ritually sacrificing to save you.

That said, I let people self identify and call themselves whatever they want, then explain it themselves.

again you make no sense. If you could stop believing Jesus was a real person thereby rejecting the claim of an afterlife and the resurrection is central to Christianity, where does that leave you??

Can we end the Monty Python sketch? I came in here for an argument and I get abuse.

“Again”? - Why would you say that? There is a forum rule about bringing arguments from other threads into a new one. So, stop that.

“make no sense” - what is non-nonsensical about what I say? I answered your question. I know people who have very little concern about the truth of Jesus and the miracles in the Bible and call themselves Christians. So you can define them however you want, you can go argue with them all you want, but you can’t make them not exist. This has been around for centuries. I’m sure there were many people who called themselves Christians in the Middle Ages because if they didn’t want to lose all of their family support. I know lots of people who call themselves “conservative” but seem to have a real problem with balancing a budget. Telling them they are wrong to use that word is not a real good use of anyone’s time.

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Posted: 17 July 2017 01:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Tanny - 17 July 2017 09:16 AM

What does it mean to be a Christian?

It means you’ve prone to delusion. What other answer would you expect from a humanist forum?

Ah, I would expect a forum about critical thinking, a center for rational inquiry, to request that you please prove your claim that Christianity equals being prone to delusion.

Your claim, your burden of proof.  Let’s see it.

Because you believe in something without good reason.

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Posted: 17 July 2017 01:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Lausten - 17 July 2017 10:02 AM
Adamski - 17 July 2017 04:34 AM
Lausten - 17 July 2017 03:58 AM

It’s a stretch. The resurrection is the central point. I think you could stop believing Jesus was a real person and rose bodily, but you have to have something about some kind of son of god, spiritual or otherwise, somehow ritually sacrificing to save you.

That said, I let people self identify and call themselves whatever they want, then explain it themselves.

again you make no sense. If you could stop believing Jesus was a real person thereby rejecting the claim of an afterlife and the resurrection is central to Christianity, where does that leave you??

Can we end the Monty Python sketch? I came in here for an argument and I get abuse.

“Again”? - Why would you say that? There is a forum rule about bringing arguments from other threads into a new one. So, stop that.

“make no sense” - what is non-nonsensical about what I say? I answered your question. I know people who have very little concern about the truth of Jesus and the miracles in the Bible and call themselves Christians. So you can define them however you want, you can go argue with them all you want, but you can’t make them not exist. This has been around for centuries. I’m sure there were many people who called themselves Christians in the Middle Ages because if they didn’t want to lose all of their family support. I know lots of people who call themselves “conservative” but seem to have a real problem with balancing a budget. Telling them they are wrong to use that word is not a real good use of anyone’s time.

I am not defining Christianity. I am asking. Catholic don’t see jevohas or Mormons as Christians and visa versa. So when we line them up, who do we believe?

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Posted: 17 July 2017 02:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Tanny - 17 July 2017 09:16 AM

Ah, I would expect a forum about critical thinking, a center for rational inquiry, to request that you please prove your claim that Christianity equals being prone to delusion.

Your claim, your burden of proof.  Let’s see it.

Interesting sidetrack. So what other answer would you expect from a forum of atheists? Are you asking members of the forum to prove there is no God or Messiah or can you defend their point of view as you seem to defend Christians?

The kind of forum you describe would note that burden of proof is a legal standard which the Innocence Project has shown on several occasions ends up with the wrong answer. Furthermore, a forum based upon critical thinking would hopefully be aware of the philosopher Karl Popper who pointed out a general rule which amongst other things means that you cannot prove something doesn’t/didn’t exist. The only way to prove atheists wrong is to prove that God exists. Similarly the only way for Christians to prove themselves not deluded is to prove Christ existed.

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Posted: 17 July 2017 03:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Adamski - 17 July 2017 01:09 PM

I am not defining Christianity. I am asking. Catholic don’t see jevohas or Mormons as Christians and visa versa. So when we line them up, who do we believe?

I don’t believe any of them, and apparently neither do you, so, as often in the case, what’s your point?

I’ve always thought it would be great for all them to fight it out and decide the truth. I mean, in accounting, you don’t have 30,000 ways of accounting, everybody has to get certified. There should be a god certification. Of course, just trying to do it would destroy religion as we know it.

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Posted: 17 July 2017 07:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Adamski - 17 July 2017 03:26 AM

Can someone tell me? Can you still call yourself a Christian if you don’t believe in the resurrection?? How about rejectiing the virgin birth? Can you still be a Christian? Redemption? Salvation?

Anyone able to answer?

You might be cultural Christian without those core beliefs, but you couldn’t be a practicing Christian; at least not in the eyes of other practicing Christians.

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Posted: 18 July 2017 01:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Lausten - 17 July 2017 03:31 PM
Adamski - 17 July 2017 01:09 PM

I am not defining Christianity. I am asking. Catholic don’t see jevohas or Mormons as Christians and visa versa. So when we line them up, who do we believe?

I don’t believe any of them, and apparently neither do you, so, as often in the case, what’s your point?

I’ve always thought it would be great for all them to fight it out and decide the truth. I mean, in accounting, you don’t have 30,000 ways of accounting, everybody has to get certified. There should be a god certification. Of course, just trying to do it would destroy religion as we know it.

Point is they can’t agree what it means yet they want others to share the same beliefs. Lets hear Tranny speak up on this

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Posted: 18 July 2017 06:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Adamski - 17 July 2017 03:26 AM

Can someone tell me? Can you still call yourself a Christian if you don’t believe in the resurrection?? How about rejectiing the virgin birth? Can you still be a Christian? Redemption? Salvation?

Anyone able to answer?

How about simply plain deluded and disconnected from reality???

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Posted: 18 July 2017 06:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Tanny - 17 July 2017 09:16 AM

What does it mean to be a Christian?

It means you’ve prone to delusion. What other answer would you expect from a humanist forum?

Ah, I would expect a forum about critical thinking, a center for rational inquiry, to request that you please prove your claim that Christianity equals being prone to delusion.

Your claim, your burden of proof.  Let’s see it.

Believing that you petty jealous, self-centered insecure mortal can possibly know the billions of years old god of light and time, creation and love.
Virgin birth.
Believing that “God” demands obedience and endless praise from her creatures.
Believing that who you are on this physical will continue after your body dies rots, into some perfect heavenly home.*


That heaven thing is about as childish and not thought through as I can imagine.
Are you even aware of how much your spirit is dependent on your body is while going through and experiencing life?
To imagine you could become a puff of spirit, yet retain all your Earthly personality - it’s bizarre and indicates individuals who have never actually lived a conscious engaged life of self-reflection on events and life as we pass through days.  Too busy repeating empty mantras and praise, praise, praise, praise.

But how many times do you stop to look at the world and take a moment to praise this Universe and Evolution for the wonders it’s achieved?

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Posted: 18 July 2017 06:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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sorry that could be better written but I’m in another rush, gotta run….....

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Posted: 18 July 2017 03:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Are you asking members of the forum to prove there is no God or Messiah….

No.  I’m asking them to prove that they are in a position to come to a conclusion on the topic.

.... or can you defend their point of view as you seem to defend Christians?

I can and happily will defend reason.  But not atheism, for atheism is not reason, but rather a faith based ideology which competes with theism.

The kind of forum you describe would note that burden of proof is a legal standard which the Innocence Project has shown on several occasions ends up with the wrong answer.

Ah, so we are no longer interested in making burden of proof demands on anyone, including theists? 

Furthermore, a forum based upon critical thinking would hopefully be aware of the philosopher Karl Popper who pointed out a general rule which amongst other things means that you cannot prove something doesn’t/didn’t exist.

Ok, but I’m not asking anyone to do that.  I’m asking atheists to prove that their often stated ability to arrive at a credible theory or conclusion on this topic exists.  Upon what is such a proposed ability based?

The only way to prove atheists wrong is to prove that God exists.

Nope, we just have to prove that they don’t have the ability they assert that they have.  Here’s how that works, and it will sound very familiar to you.

THEISM: When theists make god claims, we reasonably ask them to prove that their chosen authority, typically some holy book, is qualified to deliver credible answers on the very largest of questions. 

ATHEISM:  When atheists make their claims, we reasonably ask them to prove that their chosen authority, typically human reason, is qualified to deliver credible answers on the very largest of questions. 

Neither party can prove the qualifications of their chosen authority.  Thus, both parties are faith based believers.  Thus, nobody wins.

All that I’ve done above is apply the very same challenge to both parties and their claims in a fair even handed manner.  The name for this process is…

Reason.

What trips up many atheists is that they confuse reason with ideology. 

Similarly the only way for Christians to prove themselves not deluded is to prove Christ existed.

Ah, so we’re back to the burden of proof already, eh? 

I hear you saying that theists bear that burden for their claims, but atheists don’t bear any such burden. 

Yes, atheists are making a claim, even though they often don’t realize it.  They are claiming that human reason is qualified to deliver credible answers on the very largest of questions (scope of god theories).  It’s the same kind of claim theists make in regards to their holy books, and with the very same lack of proof.

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