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What does it mean to be a Christian??
Posted: 21 October 2017 08:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 136 ]
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Lausten - 21 October 2017 05:27 AM
MikeYohe - 20 October 2017 09:35 PM

But why not look at the history.

Good question. I wish you would do that. “born of a virgin” was not invented with Christianity. Look it up.

Well, I came up with this;

According to the canonical gospels of Matthew and Luke, Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born from the Virgin Mary. Little of Jesus’ childhood is recorded in the canonical gospels, although infancy gospels were popular in antiquity. In comparison, his adulthood, especially the week before his death, is well documented in the gospels contained within the New Testament, because that part of his life is believed to be most important. The biblical accounts of Jesus’ ministry include: his baptism, miracles, preaching, teaching and deeds

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#Jesus)

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Posted: 21 October 2017 01:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 137 ]
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Lausten - 21 October 2017 05:27 AM
MikeYohe - 20 October 2017 09:35 PM

But why not look at the history.

Good question. I wish you would do that. “born of a virgin” was not invented with Christianity. Look it up.

No need to. That was exactly the point I was making. I said most religion evolved from older religions. And I was pointing out the androgynous thinking about why being born from a virgin was even being used.

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Posted: 21 October 2017 01:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 138 ]
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Write4U - 21 October 2017 08:12 AM
Lausten - 21 October 2017 05:27 AM
MikeYohe - 20 October 2017 09:35 PM

But why not look at the history.

Good question. I wish you would do that. “born of a virgin” was not invented with Christianity. Look it up.

Well, I came up with this;

According to the canonical gospels of Matthew and Luke, Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born from the Virgin Mary. Little of Jesus’ childhood is recorded in the canonical gospels, although infancy gospels were popular in antiquity. In comparison, his adulthood, especially the week before his death, is well documented in the gospels contained within the New Testament, because that part of his life is believed to be most important. The biblical accounts of Jesus’ ministry include: his baptism, miracles, preaching, teaching and deeds

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#Jesus)

You are getting into an area that is hard to keep from mixing the audiences. The teaching of Jesus was for Greeks, Jews and Egyptians. So, for example if you are talking about the resurrection, you are looking at the Egyptian audience, where resurrection took place daily in Egypt. But Matthew, Luke and the rest had to blend it in to the teachings for the northern audience where resurrection was twice a year to reset the calendars. Sites like Wikipedia treats Christianity as one religion. If it was one religion then there would have been no need for the Nicene Creed in 318 to try and form one religion out of Christianity. And even that Creed did not hold because of the Schism of 1054. Which sort of makes me believe that the virgin was more for the Greek audience.

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Posted: 21 October 2017 01:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 139 ]
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Write4U - 21 October 2017 03:03 AM

But it is the attachment of unnecessary miracles and unearthly beings, which has caused great harm to the fundamental messages and on occasion was reason to go to war. Religious wars of man against man, sanctioned by the same God as in the God of the OT.
A perfect example is in your posit.  And for some reason in these type of discussions, I always recall the fate of Hypatia.
http://www.womanastronomer.com/hypatia.htm


Miracles. Why miracles? Why did the gods have to resort to miracles anyway? The common factor of gods was “knowledge”.  Knowledge of some item, whether it was laws, history, banking, healing, child birth, heaven, time, rain, war, you name it. There came to be so many gods, that miracles came into play and was going strong at the time of Jesus. This is also a sign that knowledge was moving to the general public. Books were now available as well as colleges. Your Hypatia is a clear sign that the religious sect did not like the public having knowledge.

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Posted: 21 October 2017 08:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 140 ]
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Tanny - 17 July 2017 09:16 AM

What does it mean to be a Christian?

It means you’ve prone to delusion. What other answer would you expect from a humanist forum?

Ah, I would expect a forum about critical thinking, a center for rational inquiry, to request that you please prove your claim that Christianity equals being prone to delusion.

Your claim, your burden of proof.  Let’s see it.

Anybody who believes extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence to support them is delusional by definition. No further evidence is necessary.

Lois

[ Edited: 21 October 2017 08:45 PM by LoisL ]
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[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
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Posted: 21 October 2017 10:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 141 ]
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LoisL - 21 October 2017 08:43 PM
Tanny - 17 July 2017 09:16 AM

What does it mean to be a Christian?

It means you’ve prone to delusion. What other answer would you expect from a humanist forum?

Ah, I would expect a forum about critical thinking, a center for rational inquiry, to request that you please prove your claim that Christianity equals being prone to delusion.

Your claim, your burden of proof.  Let’s see it.

Anybody who believes extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence to support them is delusional by definition. No further evidence is necessary.

Lois

I agree with you completely. The problem I am seeing is not all people look at what you call “evidence” in the same way. In my church people of faith tell their stories of healing and god helping them every week. To them that is extraordinary evidence.

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Posted: 22 October 2017 12:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 142 ]
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Mike Yohe said,
I agree with you completely. The problem I am seeing is not all people look at what you call “evidence” in the same way. In my church people of faith tell their stories of healing and god helping them every week. To them that is extraordinary evidence.

And hubris, IMO. Our prayers saved him!  Blessed be God!

But when the prayers don’t work, then it becomes God’s will and no one holds that as evidence that if there is a God, he has absolutely no interest in humanity per se.

When a football player catches that great pass, he thanks God. When he drops the pass, does he lodge a complaint against God?

[ Edited: 22 October 2017 12:26 AM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 22 October 2017 01:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 143 ]
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MikeYohe - 21 October 2017 10:24 PM
LoisL - 21 October 2017 08:43 PM
Tanny - 17 July 2017 09:16 AM

What does it mean to be a Christian?

It means you’ve prone to delusion. What other answer would you expect from a humanist forum?

Ah, I would expect a forum about critical thinking, a center for rational inquiry, to request that you please prove your claim that Christianity equals being prone to delusion.

Your claim, your burden of proof.  Let’s see it.

Anybody who believes extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence to support them is delusional by definition. No further evidence is necessary.

Lois

I agree with you completely. The problem I am seeing is not all people look at what you call “evidence” in the same way. In my church people of faith tell their stories of healing and god helping them every week. To them that is extraordinary evidence.

That’s the problem. They have no idea what empirical evidence is, or if they do they will refuse to apply it to religious claims. You are unlikely to be able to explain it to them. They know what they know and they don’t want any interference with it.

Lois

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[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

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Posted: 23 October 2017 02:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 144 ]
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@Lois,

“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner

smile

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Posted: 23 October 2017 01:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 145 ]
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I agree with what you said. And I think the people at church would agree too. They know I am an atheist, but if I don’t show up they start calling and wanting me show up. Does a smoker not know smoking is bad for his health? Still smokes. But church is much more than about god.

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Posted: 23 October 2017 06:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 146 ]
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MikeYohe - 23 October 2017 01:07 PM

I agree with what you said. And I think the people at church would agree too. They know I am an atheist, but if I don’t show up they start calling and wanting me show up. Does a smoker not know smoking is bad for his health? Still smokes. But church is much more than about god.

The Boy Scouts is also much more than learning survival techniques.
The Hitler Jugend was also much more than just a summer camp for teenagers.

[ Edited: 23 October 2017 06:13 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 27 October 2017 03:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 147 ]
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Adamski - 17 July 2017 03:26 AM

Can someone tell me? Can you still call yourself a Christian if you don’t believe in the resurrection?? How about rejectiing the virgin birth? Can you still be a Christian? Redemption? Salvation?

Anyone able to answer?

You know, there is Quite A Lot that Main Stream Christianity does not tell you about, and that the only way you would know is if you went after Christ on your own.
There is just so much they are not telling you about that you should and MUST Know. Go after him, make it one of your quests. ...
and don’t worry about the guilt generating garbage. That was set in place to keep you in lline vis a vis the establishment and not Christ as your “whomever you seem him to be”.

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