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What does it mean to be a Christian??
Posted: 26 July 2017 03:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 91 ]
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Lausten - 26 July 2017 04:31 AM
Adamski - 25 July 2017 08:53 PM
Lausten - 25 July 2017 06:20 AM
Adamski - 25 July 2017 04:07 AM
Lausten - 25 July 2017 03:49 AM
Adamski - 25 July 2017 12:45 AM

Cant be a good answer. The various christian denomibations dont see the other as true christians.

Anyone ?

It’s not a discussion when you ask a question and put down everyone’s answer. What is your point in coming here?

To challenge people’s ideology

Simply saying “that’s wrong” is not “challenging”.

if it contradicts reality how can it be right?

The question you asked is a matter of opinion. Answers can’t contradict anything.

Got no idea what youre talking about.  Give me an example

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Posted: 26 July 2017 04:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 92 ]
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Adamski - 26 July 2017 03:49 PM
Lausten - 26 July 2017 04:31 AM

The question you asked is a matter of opinion. Answers can’t contradict anything.

Got no idea what youre talking about.  Give me an example

Examples? The question you first asked was a question with many possible answers. Who is to say which answer is right? Certainly churches will allow a variety of answers, and they are the gate keepers of membership. And why should I care what a church says if I can read the Bible and decide for myself what a christian is?

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Posted: 27 July 2017 06:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 93 ]
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Lausten - 26 July 2017 04:36 PM
Adamski - 26 July 2017 03:49 PM
Lausten - 26 July 2017 04:31 AM

The question you asked is a matter of opinion. Answers can’t contradict anything.

Got no idea what youre talking about.  Give me an example

Examples? The question you first asked was a question with many possible answers. Who is to say which answer is right? Certainly churches will allow a variety of answers, and they are the gate keepers of membership. And why should I care what a church says if I can read the Bible and decide for myself what a christian is?

So how can a devotee claim Christianity is the truth, the true religion when the christians cant agree amongst themselves what a christian is? Yes - as an atheist, its not my problem, but its good to highlight theirs.

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Posted: 27 July 2017 09:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 94 ]
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Adamski - 27 July 2017 06:45 AM

So how can a devotee claim Christianity is the truth, the true religion when the christians cant agree amongst themselves what a christian is? Yes - as an atheist, its not my problem, but its good to highlight theirs.

That wasn’t the original question. I know lots of people who are fine with the label “Christian” and fine with others having other labels. There is plenty of Biblical support for this. You tried to preempt the first part of this question by only asking the second part. Not a very effective strategy though. You’ll either get the answer I’m giving here or from a “devotee” who claims the one true religion, you’ll be told that everyone else is wrong. They won’t care that other people call themselves Christians. That’s how the Catholic Church got started. It was just a scattering of Bishops for a couple centuries, then it came under Roman rule and they started killing people for getting Christianity wrong. The Catholic encyclopedia calls this the time when they “cleansed” the community of the Arian influence.

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Posted: 09 October 2017 02:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 95 ]
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Lausten - 27 July 2017 09:33 AM
Adamski - 27 July 2017 06:45 AM

So how can a devotee claim Christianity is the truth, the true religion when the christians cant agree amongst themselves what a christian is? Yes - as an atheist, its not my problem, but its good to highlight theirs.

That wasn’t the original question. I know lots of people who are fine with the label “Christian” and fine with others having other labels. There is plenty of Biblical support for this. You tried to preempt the first part of this question by only asking the second part. Not a very effective strategy though. You’ll either get the answer I’m giving here or from a “devotee” who claims the one true religion, you’ll be told that everyone else is wrong. They won’t care that other people call themselves Christians. That’s how the Catholic Church got started. It was just a scattering of Bishops for a couple centuries, then it came under Roman rule and they started killing people for getting Christianity wrong. The Catholic encyclopedia calls this the time when they “cleansed” the community of the Arian influence.

.

The Christians can’t agree amongst themselves on what is a Christian. Doesnt this tell you something about it’s truth claims?

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Posted: 09 October 2017 04:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 96 ]
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All it takes is a s—-load of gullibility, and that has never been known to be in short supply.

Lois

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[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

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Posted: 09 October 2017 07:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 97 ]
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Adamski - 09 October 2017 02:17 AM
Lausten - 27 July 2017 09:33 AM
Adamski - 27 July 2017 06:45 AM

So how can a devotee claim Christianity is the truth, the true religion when the christians cant agree amongst themselves what a christian is? Yes - as an atheist, its not my problem, but its good to highlight theirs.

That wasn’t the original question. I know lots of people who are fine with the label “Christian” and fine with others having other labels. There is plenty of Biblical support for this. You tried to preempt the first part of this question by only asking the second part. Not a very effective strategy though. You’ll either get the answer I’m giving here or from a “devotee” who claims the one true religion, you’ll be told that everyone else is wrong. They won’t care that other people call themselves Christians. That’s how the Catholic Church got started. It was just a scattering of Bishops for a couple centuries, then it came under Roman rule and they started killing people for getting Christianity wrong. The Catholic encyclopedia calls this the time when they “cleansed” the community of the Arian influence.

.

The Christians can’t agree amongst themselves on what is a Christian. Doesnt this tell you something about it’s truth claims?

Yes, it tells me that people can’t agree. They don’t agree on a lot of things, why should Christianity be any different? They can’t agree on what one of Trump’s tweets meant from yesterday. Your rhetorical question in this quote is not the original question. If you can’t agree on what Christianity is, you can’t agree on it being true, obviously. Your original question was about specific things. Since there have always been many sects of Christianity, that’s an easy question; someone can call themselves a Christian if they believe they are following the correct sect. Just like I can say I am a follower of covfefe because I know what it means.

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Posted: 09 October 2017 10:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 98 ]
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Lausten - 09 October 2017 07:25 AM
Adamski - 09 October 2017 02:17 AM
Lausten - 27 July 2017 09:33 AM
Adamski - 27 July 2017 06:45 AM

So how can a devotee claim Christianity is the truth, the true religion when the christians cant agree amongst themselves what a christian is? Yes - as an atheist, its not my problem, but its good to highlight theirs.

That wasn’t the original question. I know lots of people who are fine with the label “Christian” and fine with others having other labels. There is plenty of Biblical support for this. You tried to preempt the first part of this question by only asking the second part. Not a very effective strategy though. You’ll either get the answer I’m giving here or from a “devotee” who claims the one true religion, you’ll be told that everyone else is wrong. They won’t care that other people call themselves Christians. That’s how the Catholic Church got started. It was just a scattering of Bishops for a couple centuries, then it came under Roman rule and they started killing people for getting Christianity wrong. The Catholic encyclopedia calls this the time when they “cleansed” the community of the Arian influence.

.

The Christians can’t agree amongst themselves on what is a Christian. Doesnt this tell you something about it’s truth claims?

Yes, it tells me that people can’t agree. They don’t agree on a lot of things, why should Christianity be any different? They can’t agree on what one of Trump’s tweets meant from yesterday. Your rhetorical question in this quote is not the original question. If you can’t agree on what Christianity is, you can’t agree on it being true, obviously. Your original question was about specific things. Since there have always been many sects of Christianity, that’s an easy question; someone can call themselves a Christian if they believe they are following the correct sect. Just like I can say I am a follower of covfefe because I know what it means.

Line them up against the wall and they will all tell you theirs is the true faith. Christians are commanded to spread the word so That they can’t agree amongst themselves what is a Christian is not my problem.  Come back to me when it’s been sorted out before claiming that your religion is the true one.

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Posted: 10 October 2017 06:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 99 ]
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Adamski - 09 October 2017 10:55 PM

Line them up against the wall and they will all tell you theirs is the true faith.

Yeah, I said that. That’s the entire point of what I’ve been saying.

Adamski - 09 October 2017 10:55 PM

Christians are commanded to spread the word so

A comma right about there would have been helpful. Again, my point.

Adamski - 09 October 2017 10:55 PM

That they can’t agree amongst themselves what is a Christian is not my problem.

No, but it bothers you, and you started a conversation about it. So now you are my problem.

Adamski - 09 October 2017 10:55 PM

Come back to me when it’s been sorted out before claiming that your religion is the true one.

I don’t have a religion and I don’t believe there is one true one. If you wanted them to sort it out before coming to you, why did you ask the question?

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Posted: 11 October 2017 12:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 100 ]
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Lausten - 10 October 2017 06:58 AM
Adamski - 09 October 2017 10:55 PM

Line them up against the wall and they will all tell you theirs is the true faith.

Yeah, I said that. That’s the entire point of what I’ve been saying.

Adamski - 09 October 2017 10:55 PM

Christians are commanded to spread the word so

A comma right about there would have been helpful. Again, my point.

Adamski - 09 October 2017 10:55 PM

That they can’t agree amongst themselves what is a Christian is not my problem.

No, but it bothers you, and you started a conversation about it. So now you are my problem.

Adamski - 09 October 2017 10:55 PM

Come back to me when it’s been sorted out before claiming that your religion is the true one.

I don’t have a religion and I don’t believe there is one true one. If you wanted them to sort it out before coming to you, why did you ask the question?

Brains - my comments are directed to the believers.

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Posted: 11 October 2017 06:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 101 ]
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Adamski - 11 October 2017 12:40 AM

Brains - my comments are directed to the believers.

Obviously. But that doesn’t mean I can’t discuss the quality or sense of the question itself. Believers aren’t going to answer, or they are going to give you the type answers I described in the beginning of this conversation. But you don’t care. You just want to say things and believe that it makes you sound smart.

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Posted: 11 October 2017 10:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 102 ]
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What does it mean to be a Christian?
 
It means your genes are expressing the human desires to have knowledge and live forever. Period.
 
This quest for knowledge and living forever has been expressed by humans for over 200,000 years now. Some claim 300,000 years now. Being conservative, let’s just go with 200,000 years. The heavens and your spirit have also been around a long time going back into pre-history.
 
This Pauline Christianity you are talking about is really new. The deities in religions have only been around for 10,000 years.
 
In the news yesterday, NASA wants to change the DNA of astronauts that will go to Mars. We can change the genes of people to help fix medical problems. But what makes us the humans that we like is our quest for knowledge and to live forever. Religion has been driven by human genes in those two areas. Therefore, you and I are religious too. Just not the Pauline type of religious, more of the Atheists type of religious.

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Posted: 11 October 2017 10:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 103 ]
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I was looking at this for other reasons today, but it relates to this discussion. It’s one man’s opinion on the worst Bible verse.

What makes it the worst is that it is a detailed account of why it is better to be anti-intellectual. It’s exactly the opposite of what Mike just said and it’s the kind of answer I’ve been talking about. It says if you are questioning something about the Bible, that proves you are a fool. God is above such foolishness. You need to listen for God’s wisdom, not your own. There are not tools to find the truth, except Jesus.

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Posted: 12 October 2017 09:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 104 ]
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This type of thinking started before Paul and Corinthians. OT – 2 trees, tree of knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life.
 
Several pathways a guy can go with this. One pathway is that the tree of knowledge of good and evil is that man is not to judge. God will be the judge. The pathway I am trying to grasp is from the older Rig Veda Samhita. Remember, Veda means knowledge. And there are two trees, Tree of Jiva and Atman.
 
Rig Veda Samhita says:
1.164.20 Two birds associated together, and mutual friends, take refuge in the same tree; one of them eats the sweet fig; the other abstaining from food, merely looks on.
1.164.21 Where the smooth-gliding rays, cognizant, distil the perpetual portion of water; there has the lord and steadfast protector all beings accepted me, though immature in wisdom.
1.164.22 In the tree into which the smooth-gliding rays feeders on the sweet, enters, and again bring forth light over all, they have called the fruit sweet, but he partakes not of it who knows not the protector of the universe.
 
There are claims that concept of Atman and Jiva was used in the bible in Adam and Eve. 
 
The scholars mostly went in the direction of soul and spirit. I see it as early steps in wanting to control the knowledge in the Adam and Eve story.
 
Note, in 1.164.22 “bring forth light over all”. “light” is a term that means “knowledge”. It was still being used in that manner by Jesus in his Gnostic saying. Another note is, in I Corinthians in your link. Did you look up the same translations in the Orthodox Jewish interpretation?

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Posted: 12 October 2017 10:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 105 ]
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MikeYohe - 12 October 2017 09:38 AM

Note, in 1.164.22 “bring forth light over all”. “light” is a term that means “knowledge”. It was still being used in that manner by Jesus in his Gnostic saying. Another note is, in I Corinthians in your link. Did you look up the same translations in the Orthodox Jewish interpretation?

No, and I don’t see any reason for that. Changing a word here or there won’t change the meaning. The meaning is, your thoughts don’t matter, only God’s, and I (the author of whatever) am here to tell you what to think. That Corinthians says it, shows that is what Christianity is about, not some ancient oral tradition trying to understand the cosmos.

I listened to an archived podcast of Sam Harris with Jordan B Peterson. Jordan has been gaining fame for interpreting the Bible with psychology and mythology. Sam pointed out that his analysis is not always rooted in reality. That’s the problem with interpreting mythology. You might get it right sometimes, but you don’t even know for sure if you did. The way to check if you did is to use modern techniques of how we think and act. So, why not abandoned the mythology altogether?

That’s a deeper question, but Sam answers it in one of his books, and he reads from it during the interview. He went in to a bookstore, closed his eyes and picked out a book and opened it randomly. It was a cook book. He proceeded to interpret the recipe as if it had symbolic meaning, uncovering truths about the human condition. It’s pretty hilarious.

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