There is an historically accurate description of the Bible
Posted: 09 August 2017 01:36 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I’ve been developing this theme since I was Christian. It’s changed quite a bit since then, but the underlying principles remain. There is some true and correct and explanation of where the Bible came from. The theist or atheist should be equally invested in knowing what that is, and should be able to agree on methods to discover that truth. Faith and conspiracy theories are add on’s. How culture reacted to it also has historical facts about it. It’s a separate set of facts from where it came from though.

Click here for the long explanation

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Posted: 09 August 2017 01:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Lausten - 09 August 2017 01:36 PM

I’ve been developing this theme since I was Christian. It’s changed quite a bit since then, but the underlying principles remain. There is some true and correct and explanation of where the Bible came from. The theist or atheist should be equally invested in knowing what that is, and should be able to agree on methods to discover that truth. Faith and conspiracy theories are add on’s. How culture reacted to it also has historical facts about it. It’s a separate set of facts from where it came from though.

Click here for the long explanation

we dont know where it came from we dont know who wrote it but we know it was spread through empire

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Posted: 09 August 2017 07:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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We know quite a bit actually. It’s not necessary to identify the individuals. Years, regions, tell you a lot.

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Posted: 09 August 2017 11:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Lausten - 09 August 2017 07:55 PM

We know quite a bit actually. It’s not necessary to identify the individuals. Years, regions, tell you a lot.

Not the authors not it’s origin

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Posted: 10 August 2017 04:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Adamski - 09 August 2017 11:50 PM
Lausten - 09 August 2017 07:55 PM

We know quite a bit actually. It’s not necessary to identify the individuals. Years, regions, tell you a lot.

Not the authors not it’s origin

Why is that important? Why do you think we need to know the names and histories of the authors?

For example, here’s what we know about Deuteronomy

Traditionally seen as the words of Moses delivered before the conquest of Canaan, a broad consensus of modern scholars see its origin in traditions from Israel (the northern kingdom) brought south to the Kingdom of Judah in the wake of the Assyrian conquest of Aram (8th century BC) and then adapted to a program of nationalist reform in the time of Josiah (late 7th century BC), with the final form of the modern book emerging in the milieu of the return from the Babylonian captivity during the late 6th century BC.[3] Many scholars see the book as reflecting the economic needs and social status of the Levite caste, who are believed to have provided its authors.[4]

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Posted: 10 August 2017 09:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Lausten - 09 August 2017 01:36 PM

I’ve been developing this theme since I was Christian. It’s changed quite a bit since then, but the underlying principles remain. There is some true and correct and explanation of where the Bible came from. The theist or atheist should be equally invested in knowing what that is, and should be able to agree on methods to discover that truth. Faith and conspiracy theories are add on’s. How culture reacted to it also has historical facts about it. It’s a separate set of facts from where it came from though.

Click here for the long explanation

For you Lausten I took the time to read through that.  Interesting, if I were more interested I’d say fascinating.
But then I’m always a little amazed that people see so much in the Bible.  Every time (in my adult life) I’ve given it a change and open it to read some,
I get so turned off by the stories and messaging, sometimes disgusted even, that it’s become totally irrelevant to me, though I know most people seems to think it’s some master piece - so it’ll never be totally irrelevant, not even for me.  I’m stuck with the world I was born into.

As for Biblical origins, seems to me, how can there not be a Gilgamesh connection. (not that that answers your question or anything)

http://faithlessfeminist.com/the-bible/the-bible-and-gilgamesh/

Although Egyptian inspiration has a lot to said for itself too

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x218149

Written in 1280 BC, the Egyptian “Book of the Dead” describes a God, Horus, son of Goddess Isis.

Egyptian mythology predates the birth of Christianity by 1500 years.

Horus..

-Born Dec 25th.

-Born to a virgin mother(Isis), a virgin birth.

-Birth marked by a bright star in the sky.

-Birth announced by angels. Jesus’ birth was announced by angels.

-born in a cave. Caves were used as stables. Laid in a manger.

-birth event witnessed by 3 wise men bearing gifts whom traveled from afar.

-during infancy, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. Herod tried to have Jesus murdered during infancy.

-Earthly father named Seb. The name/word Seb translates into Jo-seph.

-Both Horus and Jesus were baptized at age 30.

- Horus was baptized in a river by Anup the Baptizer. The name/word Anup translates into John.. as in John the Baptist. Anup was beheaded shortly thereafter, like John the Baptist.

-at age 12 he was led to a temple for his “coming of age” ritual. At age 12 Jesus was led to a temple for the same. Now called the bar mitzvah.

-no data on his life between ages 12-30. No data on Jesus between ages 12-30.

-Both Horus and Jesus disappeared for 18 years from age 12-30.

-Horus wandered into the desert alone at age 30 and was tempted. Jesus wandered into the desert alone at age 30 and was tempted.

-Horus had 12 disciples. 2 named Anup and Aan. Both names translate into John.. the 2 Johns from the 12 disciples of Jesus.

-Horus walked on water.

-Horus healed the sick, the blind, cast out demons, performed miracles.

-Horus raised Asar/El-Azarus from the dead. El-Azarus translates into Lazarus.

-His personal epithet was “Iusa” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.” He was called the “Holy Child.”

-Horus was called “The Messiah”

-Horus’ many Titles: Way, the Truth the Light; God’s Anointed Son; Son of Man; Good Shepherd; Lamb of God; Word made flesh; Word of Truth.

-was a fisherman and associated with “Ichthys”. Similar to Jesus.

-was called the “KRST” or the “Anointed One”. KRST may be the root of the word “Christ”.

-after age 30 Horus delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”

-after the sermon, Horus was captured.

-Horus was crucified on a cross or tree between two thieves.

-after 3 days, 2 women announced Horus, the Saviour of humanity had been resurrected. Brought back from the dead to reign for 1000 years. The exact same destiny of Jesus.

Mithra- Persian god 600 BC

Mithra..

-born Dec 25th

-born to a virgin birth.

-Performed miracles

-crucified and resurrected 3 days later.

-known as the Lamb, The Way, The Truth, The Light, The Savior, The Messiah.

Krishna- India 1000 BC

-was a carpenter

-born of a virgin birth

-baptized in a river

Dyonisis, Greek mythological god.

Dyonisis..

-Born to a virgin mother, a virgin birth.

-turned water to wine, performed miracles.

-crucified and resurrected 3 days later.

-was called the Saviour of mankind.

-believed his followers should partake in a feast of his flesh and blood. The root of communion.

-his followers believed they could feel his presence inside them.


The strictest tenets of Christianity, the tenets used to proselytize the non-believer into becoming a Christian appear to be completely copied from various mythologies that predate Jesus by 1500 years.

The story of the miraculous life of Jesus is used to proselytize the non believer. The virgin birth, 3 wise men, the star in the sky, his baptism, his preformance of miracles, casting out demons, healing the sick, raising the dead, his crucifiction between 2 criminals, his resurrection 3 days later…

ALL COPIED FROM EGYPTIAN, GREEK, PERSIAN MYTHOLOGY AND LORE.

For the past 2000 years the Christian church has gone through great, often murderous pains to stifle and hide these facts.

They never prepared for the information age or the internet.

Why don’t our public schools teach our children this information?

It’s high time they start teaching it.

Google “Horus and Isis” “Mithra” “Krishna” “Dyonisis”

Here’s a pretty good resource to get your search started..

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5b.htm

more fun reading on Biblical mythology
https://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-bible-is-fiction-a-collection-of-evidence/#gs.=XE=_GE

I have the feeling most of this sidesteps what you’re really asking here, but it’s not irrelevant background either.    smile

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Posted: 10 August 2017 10:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 10 August 2017 09:57 AM

For you Lausten I took the time to read through that.  Interesting, if I were more interested I’d say fascinating.
But then I’m always a little amazed that people see so much in the Bible.  Every time (in my adult life) I’ve given it a change and open it to read some,
I get so turned off by the stories and messaging, sometimes disgusted even, that it’s become totally irrelevant to me, though I know most people seems to think it’s some master piece - so it’ll never be totally irrelevant, not even for me.  I’m stuck with the world I was born into.

Thanks CC. When I get done with comments on the entire Lectionary I plan to write up a more critical analysis. On Milepost 100, I’m trying to stay neutral. I have a coding system for each entry, and after 80 weeks of readings, I’ve found 3 inspirational passages. There are quite a few more that I call “universal”, but that only means they express a universal value, i.e. something you could find in most civilized cultures. Every religion has that, and they all borrow from each other. Most of the stories I label “theology”, which to me means stories that refer to other symbols and stories within the same culture. I think what most people call inspirational is something like God sending his only son down for sacrifice, what a great guy. But that requires so many assumptions and accepting so many myths, without which, it’s not inspirational at all.

Those theologies are my driest entries. They just report the facts of what the names mean or what passages are being referenced. The interesting ones are when you can forget the theology, forget how it fits some canon that was invented later anyway, and find a warrior’s tale, or a slaves rebellion, or a man’s struggle against his own ego.

As for where it came from, I rarely bother mentioning that. That’s interesting to me, but it’s not what I’m doing with this website.

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Posted: 10 August 2017 01:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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On the radar of Jesus today is reincarnation. There is talk about early Christians believing in reincarnation. Thus, the bible and the trinity. Doesn’t it seem to you that the bible has left a lot out about heaven? //www.journal.com.ph/editorial/mysteries/hidden-beliefs-covered-by-the-church-resurrection-and-reincarnation-in-early-christianity

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Posted: 10 August 2017 01:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Lausten - 10 August 2017 04:46 AM
Adamski - 09 August 2017 11:50 PM
Lausten - 09 August 2017 07:55 PM

We know quite a bit actually. It’s not necessary to identify the individuals. Years, regions, tell you a lot.

Not the authors not it’s origin

Why is that important? Why do you think we need to know the names and histories of the authors?

For example, here’s what we know about Deuteronomy

Traditionally seen as the words of Moses delivered before the conquest of Canaan, a broad consensus of modern scholars see its origin in traditions from Israel (the northern kingdom) brought south to the Kingdom of Judah in the wake of the Assyrian conquest of Aram (8th century BC) and then adapted to a program of nationalist reform in the time of Josiah (late 7th century BC), with the final form of the modern book emerging in the milieu of the return from the Babylonian captivity during the late 6th century BC.[3] Many scholars see the book as reflecting the economic needs and social status of the Levite caste, who are believed to have provided its authors.[4]

Revelation

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Posted: 11 August 2017 06:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Adamski - 10 August 2017 01:55 PM

Revelation

Another well thought out and thorough post from Adamski.

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Posted: 26 October 2017 04:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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As far as the NT, Marcion (not the Catholic Church) is apparently the first to gather a collection of books, which was composed of the book of Luke and the epistles of Paul. He was Huge at the time (no later than 3rd or 4th Century Theologian) with his own followers and what have you. He also had this Fire ‘Theory’ that the God of the OT couldn’t possibly be the same as that of NT, based on the numerous wild contradictions between the 2. He wrote the Anti-thesis comparing verses from both sides. Like for example he would get the “an eye for an eye” verse, off the OT, and line it against the forgiveness verse in the NT. etc. The evil Catholic cult declared him heretic and burnt all his work. Someone gleaned what they could of the anti-thesis and put it up in PDF form on the internet. 19 pages document that’s worth the read.

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Posted: 26 October 2017 04:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Continuation of the post:
As far as how the bible should be read. Mark Prophet(died in 73) wrote a 4 volumes book, the first of which is titled “The secret teachings of Jesus”. If I remember correctly, he (along with others) believes that Jesus studied in the east between age 12 and 30. And He also believes that Jesus and the apostles had 2 SEPARATE teachings. One for the general populace, and the other is for the Elite only, hence the term “secret”. The only one I read is the first volume. The way he breaks down a biblical passage is simply REMARKABLE. I mean regular people would look at a verse on superficial basis in general, but after considering his contexts, one finds him/herself literally stepping through secret doors within the NT to the “other side”, It’s absolutely STUNNING!!!!!!!! Anybody who is interested in Christ out there. I would strongly recommend they get hold of this book and read it. Simply fascinating.

Also Bart Ehrman, in “Misquoting Jesus”, showed how they used to copy the bible back in the days. They had what they call ” ‘manual’ copyists”. Those copyists were illiterate. That means they could only draw letters. And according to him, they did not necessarily know what the words they copied meant. So if they missed a letter, a word or an entire line, chances are they wouldn’t even notice as no commas, dots, paragraphs or chapters were known at the time. He goes into A Great detail about this. Another golden nugget to get hold of for the interested.

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Posted: 27 October 2017 09:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 10 August 2017 09:57 AM
Lausten - 09 August 2017 01:36 PM

I’ve been developing this theme since I was Christian. It’s changed quite a bit since then, but the underlying principles remain. There is some true and correct and explanation of where the Bible came from. The theist or atheist should be equally invested in knowing what that is, and should be able to agree on methods to discover that truth. Faith and conspiracy theories are add on’s. How culture reacted to it also has historical facts about it. It’s a separate set of facts from where it came from though.

Click here for the long explanation

For you Lausten I took the time to read through that.  Interesting, if I were more interested I’d say fascinating.
But then I’m always a little amazed that people see so much in the Bible.  Every time (in my adult life) I’ve given it a change and open it to read some,
I get so turned off by the stories and messaging, sometimes disgusted even, that it’s become totally irrelevant to me, though I know most people seems to think it’s some master piece - so it’ll never be totally irrelevant, not even for me.  I’m stuck with the world I was born into.

As for Biblical origins, seems to me, how can there not be a Gilgamesh connection. (not that that answers your question or anything)

http://faithlessfeminist.com/the-bible/the-bible-and-gilgamesh/

Although Egyptian inspiration has a lot to said for itself too

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x218149

Written in 1280 BC, the Egyptian “Book of the Dead” describes a God, Horus, son of Goddess Isis.

Egyptian mythology predates the birth of Christianity by 1500 years.

Horus..

-Born Dec 25th.

-Born to a virgin mother(Isis), a virgin birth.

-Birth marked by a bright star in the sky.

-Birth announced by angels. Jesus’ birth was announced by angels.

-born in a cave. Caves were used as stables. Laid in a manger.

-birth event witnessed by 3 wise men bearing gifts whom traveled from afar.

-during infancy, Herut tried to have Horus murdered. Herod tried to have Jesus murdered during infancy.

-Earthly father named Seb. The name/word Seb translates into Jo-seph.

-Both Horus and Jesus were baptized at age 30.

- Horus was baptized in a river by Anup the Baptizer. The name/word Anup translates into John.. as in John the Baptist. Anup was beheaded shortly thereafter, like John the Baptist.

-at age 12 he was led to a temple for his “coming of age” ritual. At age 12 Jesus was led to a temple for the same. Now called the bar mitzvah.

-no data on his life between ages 12-30. No data on Jesus between ages 12-30.

-Both Horus and Jesus disappeared for 18 years from age 12-30.

-Horus wandered into the desert alone at age 30 and was tempted. Jesus wandered into the desert alone at age 30 and was tempted.

-Horus had 12 disciples. 2 named Anup and Aan. Both names translate into John.. the 2 Johns from the 12 disciples of Jesus.

-Horus walked on water.

-Horus healed the sick, the blind, cast out demons, performed miracles.

-Horus raised Asar/El-Azarus from the dead. El-Azarus translates into Lazarus.

-His personal epithet was “Iusa” the “ever-becoming son” of “Ptah,” the “Father.” He was called the “Holy Child.”

-Horus was called “The Messiah”

-Horus’ many Titles: Way, the Truth the Light; God’s Anointed Son; Son of Man; Good Shepherd; Lamb of God; Word made flesh; Word of Truth.

-was a fisherman and associated with “Ichthys”. Similar to Jesus.

-was called the “KRST” or the “Anointed One”. KRST may be the root of the word “Christ”.

-after age 30 Horus delivered a “Sermon on the Mount” and his followers recounted the “Sayings of Iusa.”

-after the sermon, Horus was captured.

-Horus was crucified on a cross or tree between two thieves.

-after 3 days, 2 women announced Horus, the Saviour of humanity had been resurrected. Brought back from the dead to reign for 1000 years. The exact same destiny of Jesus.

Mithra- Persian god 600 BC

Mithra..

-born Dec 25th

-born to a virgin birth.

-Performed miracles

-crucified and resurrected 3 days later.

-known as the Lamb, The Way, The Truth, The Light, The Savior, The Messiah.

Krishna- India 1000 BC

-was a carpenter

-born of a virgin birth

-baptized in a river

Dyonisis, Greek mythological god.

Dyonisis..

-Born to a virgin mother, a virgin birth.

-turned water to wine, performed miracles.

-crucified and resurrected 3 days later.

-was called the Saviour of mankind.

-believed his followers should partake in a feast of his flesh and blood. The root of communion.

-his followers believed they could feel his presence inside them.


The strictest tenets of Christianity, the tenets used to proselytize the non-believer into becoming a Christian appear to be completely copied from various mythologies that predate Jesus by 1500 years.

The story of the miraculous life of Jesus is used to proselytize the non believer. The virgin birth, 3 wise men, the star in the sky, his baptism, his preformance of miracles, casting out demons, healing the sick, raising the dead, his crucifiction between 2 criminals, his resurrection 3 days later…

ALL COPIED FROM EGYPTIAN, GREEK, PERSIAN MYTHOLOGY AND LORE.

For the past 2000 years the Christian church has gone through great, often murderous pains to stifle and hide these facts.

They never prepared for the information age or the internet.

Why don’t our public schools teach our children this information?

It’s high time they start teaching it.

Google “Horus and Isis” “Mithra” “Krishna” “Dyonisis”

Here’s a pretty good resource to get your search started..

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5b.htm

more fun reading on Biblical mythology
https://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-bible-is-fiction-a-collection-of-evidence/#gs.=XE=_GE

I have the feeling most of this sidesteps what you’re really asking here, but it’s not irrelevant background either.    smile

Alot of this is covered in the movie Zeitgeist, which you can watch on youtube. It’s really the most important set of facts - Christianity is nothing if not a giant copy/paste job from prior religions. And it’s not that there is some big nefarious plot behind it. It’s just how things occurred back then. People were making up stuff, putting in writing so to speak, and borrowed from the legends and heresay that were prevalent at the time.

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Posted: 27 October 2017 10:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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CuthbertJ - 27 October 2017 09:42 AM

Alot of this is covered in the movie Zeitgeist, which you can watch on youtube. It’s really the most important set of facts - Christianity is nothing if not a giant copy/paste job from prior religions. And it’s not that there is some big nefarious plot behind it. It’s just how things occurred back then. People were making up stuff, putting in writing so to speak, and borrowed from the legends and heresay that were prevalent at the time.

I didn’t read the complete list because I could spot errors right away and it’s too easy to look them up. Richard Carrier has done the hard work on the bad documentaries from the 80s and 90s and I hope that stuff continues to fade. David Fitzgerald is a little easier to digest if you don’t like Carrier. “copy and paste” is a cheap shot. Myth developed in the Jewish world just every other culture, and you can trace it some degree. The more interesting questions are why, and why did some survive while others didn’t.

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Posted: 27 October 2017 10:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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InBetween - 26 October 2017 04:20 PM

Continuation of the post:
As far as how the bible should be read. Mark Prophet(died in 73) wrote a 4 volumes book, the first of which is titled “The secret teachings of Jesus”. If I remember correctly, he (along with others) believes that Jesus studied in the east between age 12 and 30. And He also believes that Jesus and the apostles had 2 SEPARATE teachings. One for the general populace, and the other is for the Elite only, hence the term “secret”. The only one I read is the first volume. The way he breaks down a biblical passage is simply REMARKABLE. I mean regular people would look at a verse on superficial basis in general, but after considering his contexts, one finds him/herself literally stepping through secret doors within the NT to the “other side”, It’s absolutely STUNNING!!!!!!!! Anybody who is interested in Christ out there. I would strongly recommend they get hold of this book and read it. Simply fascinating.

Also Bart Ehrman, in “Misquoting Jesus”, showed how they used to copy the bible back in the days. They had what they call ” ‘manual’ copyists”. Those copyists were illiterate. That means they could only draw letters. And according to him, they did not necessarily know what the words they copied meant. So if they missed a letter, a word or an entire line, chances are they wouldn’t even notice as no commas, dots, paragraphs or chapters were known at the time. He goes into A Great detail about this. Another golden nugget to get hold of for the interested.

Thanks for the Marcion reference. I probably won’t go looking for the Mark Prophet thing. It sounds like he made it up out of nothing. The idea of 2 teachings is right in the NT text though, so I don’t he has anything “stunning”. It’s called “mystery cult”. It’s like a video game, you get tired of the one story, so they say, “but there’s more, there’s this other adventure that you are now ready for”, to get you to buy the next version.

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Posted: 27 October 2017 03:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Lausten - 27 October 2017 10:28 AM

  Thanks for the Marcion reference. I probably won’t go looking for the Mark Prophet thing. It sounds like he made it up out of nothing. The idea of 2 teachings is right in the NT text though, so I don’t he has anything “stunning”. It’s called “mystery cult”. It’s like a video game, you get tired of the one story, so they say, “but there’s more, there’s this other adventure that you are now ready for”, to get you to buy the next version.

No. It’s really good book. He is a rogue one. He doesn’t belong to the religious establishment at all. A good part of the book was just too wild for me to follow, and I plan to re-read it to work to absorb its content after I read the other 3, but the one where he would discuss various scriptures within the context he believes applies. Man, did I have a good ride or what!? it was awesome. And I don’t think he made up anything. he might be wrong about some points on honest basis, but not to intentionally mislead his readers. I don’t think so. I have been looking up Jesus for quite some times now and many other authors who are also the typical “heretics”, having nothing to do with him, do state that some of the Apostles if not all of them have a second books that we never Knew anything about.

I’ve read the NT few times and I have not noticed that. Would you be kind to give me an example of how the 2 teachings for different societal classes already is in there please, because I can’t remember any. And I m not playing any games here. This is an honest question.

Dude. I love you guys and girls: For the Atheists that you are, you sure are better Christians than we could ever hope to be. This is so spooky and weird. LOL.
thanks so much for the thread.

[ Edited: 27 October 2017 03:19 PM by InBetween ]
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