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A Despiciable and Presumptuous Article In The Washington Post: Using Harvey As Political Cannon Fodder
Posted: 27 August 2017 07:27 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Before I present the article, I am going to present context of the current atmosphere here in Texas.  As we speak my wife is watching Twitter feeds of people risking their own lives and going out in their personal boats to rescue people.  Search the hashtag #hurricaneharvey.  There are also a lot of Texans showing off their unbreakable spirit; tubing down flooded streets, standing in the rain challenging the winds, and fishing in their living rooms.  The toll is not complete, but we know hundreds if not thousands have lost their homes and a few their lives.  On we will toil with our hearts bruised, but our spirits unbroken.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/08/25/hurricane-harvey-threatens-more-than-you-think/?utm_term=.91ad681048fd
 
This article, which I have debated about even linking, tries to connect our current disaster with the “Great Galveston Hurricane Of 1900”.  The connection is not made through the strength of the hurricane though.  Neither is it the damage and lives lost, which is mentioned but not the main point of his argument.  No, Mr. Horowitz doesn’t see this as the most tangible link between the two storms.  His far left mind took the issue straight to looting and the persecution of African Americans.  Now as of yet I have only read one story on looting coming out of Odem, but no one was caught and it generally offers no evidence a crime was even committed.  How could you equate all this suffering and triumph over adversity to such a horrific story?  Just because they are both set to the back drop of a major storm? 

  I know it sounds pretentious, but Texas is different than most states and certainly different than it was 117 years ago.  There are definitely problems of racial intolerance, but the state has evolved and should not be grouped with as a whole with hate groups.  I strongly believe in equal opportunity and we have that here in spades, because once you live in Texas you are a Texan.  You are one of us and we would gladly put our ideological beliefs aside to stand with you in desperate times.  I know my point of view is based entirely on conjecture, that I can not speak for every single Texan.  But I can tell you in my own experience this has always been the case.

  Yes, this is personal to me.  I am biased and so my argument doesn’t hold up very well beyond challenging the ethicality of this article.  But I could not let this stand unchallenged and I did not give myself time to put together a formal argument.  This was a quick retort; I will monitor and examine the response to this thread as I form a more concise argument.  I am currently writing a paper on the demarcation problem, confirmation bias and ANTIFA using these concepts manufacture the fire and the fuel to keep it going.  I am a liberal democrat, but I feel lost in this current state.  Articles like this are so prevalent, they are diluting the truth down to an unrecognizable solvent.  A solvent no longer able to dissolve the sticky web of lies we find ourselves in.  I present this not as an objective argument, but as a scrupulous personal assessment.

[ Edited: 28 August 2017 08:16 PM by WaylonCash ]
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Posted: 28 August 2017 12:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Good find. It’s an absurd article but it is typical of the mainstream media now.

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Posted: 28 August 2017 01:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Beltane - 28 August 2017 12:18 AM

Good find. It’s an absurd article but it is typical of the mainstream media now.

You mean the mainstream media like the National Review, the Washington Times, Fox News, Breitbart News, the New York Observer, the New York Post, the National Inquirer?

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[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
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Posted: 28 August 2017 10:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Beltane - 28 August 2017 12:18 AM

Good find. It’s an absurd article but it is typical of the mainstream media now.

Trump is right about the most of the media.

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Posted: 28 August 2017 12:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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MikeYohe - 28 August 2017 10:39 AM
Beltane - 28 August 2017 12:18 AM

Good find. It’s an absurd article but it is typical of the mainstream media now.

Trump is right about the most of the media.

Just like Mike Yohe is regarding climate change denial by using a medium that by its very nature directly supports the science behind climate change.

Neither makes any sense at all because that is their entire intent, claim there is no “truth” other than that which they present…. with no supporting evidence.

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Posted: 28 August 2017 01:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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How exactly is it despicable and presumptuous to present in a very clear and concise way the parallels that exist between events in 1900 and 2017.

There were extensive laws passed across the US south that prevented blacks from voting and often left them vulnerable to abuses of law that could be and quite often were deadly. If you think that isn’t happening now then you’ve been completely tuned out from what is occurring in the US currently. Police are killing black men with impunity, the current president garnered great support by directly attacking the reputation of entire segments of the US population then told his almost entirely white supporters at rallies that if they wanted to beat the hell out of anyone who showed up to protest he’d pay their legal bills. And the people they violently attacked were almost invariably black.

White supremacists are openly marching in the US and have already begun to kill those who are exercising their Constitutional rights to stand firm against them. Voting laws are being passed that are no different in intent and effect than the poll taxes that in the past have disenfranchised minority groups like African Americans, something that the Texan government and Trump openly support right now.

I find it very hard to see how the thread starter is a liberal democrat in any sense, he’s obviously angry at the state of Texas being called out on current actions that have done harm to thousands in the past and seems to object to anyone openly pointing out the same thing is in the process of happening again.

Democracy and freedom do not come cheap and there is a constant battle in the US - as there is anywhere - on the part of the few to impose their values and their power on everyone else. In the past that has given us slavery in the US and then many decades of oppression and persecution of minority groups that the current US president and state governments like the one in Texan would obviously like to see a return of.

Taking away the right of people to representation and a voice in how their lives are controlled is just the start of the process. As it proceeds it includes the silencing of any voices of dissent - like driving a car at high speed into a large crowd trying to kill as many people as possible - the restriction of essential services like education, health care and access to well paying employment. Then on to the enslaving of entire groups for economic and political reasons.

The US is already well down the road to this kind of truly despicable society, there are more US citizens incarcerated by capita than any place on Earth, proportionally far more blacks. Where many are put to work for wealthy corporations for almost no pay some with no chance of freedom ever, some for what is in reality petty theft due to things like clearly racially motivated “three strikes you’re out” laws.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/prison-labor-in-america/406177/

Crops stretch to the horizon. Black bodies pepper the landscape, hunched over as they work the fields. Officers on horseback, armed, oversee the workers.

To the untrained eye, the scenes in Angola for Life: Rehabilitation and Reform Inside the Louisiana State Penitentiary, an Atlantic documentary filmed on an old Southern slave-plantation-turned-prison, could have been shot 150 years ago. The imagery haunts, and the stench of slavery and racial oppression lingers through the 13 minutes of footage.

The film tells two overlapping stories: One is of accomplishment against incredible odds, of a man who stepped into the most violent maximum-security prison in the nation and gave the men there—discarded and damned—what society didn’t: hope, education, and a moral compass. Burl Cain, the warden of Angola Prison, which is in Louisiana, has created a controversial model for rehabilitation. Through work and religion, they learn to help each other, and try to become better fathers to their children on the outside. Perhaps the lucky few even find redemption.

But there is a second storyline running alongside the first, which raises disquieting questions about how America treats those on the inside as less than fully human. Those troubling opening scenes of the documentary offer visual proof of a truth that America has worked hard to ignore: In a sense, slavery never ended at Angola; it was reinvented.

There is little in the way of justice or even representation for a huge proportion of Americans now and for far too many that has resulted in lives that are much shorter and much harsher than they should actually be in a country that is supposed to be based on the concept of universal equality and freedom.

What’s despicable is those who are imposing their rule on millions of Americans and those who are cheering them on or who are remaining silent because they simply don’t care.

Remember how Vyazma claimed to be a lefty then turned out to be one of the biggest fascists here… I’m not saying that’s happening with this poster but someone who openly advocates eugenics and loudly protests when someone points out how unequal and unjust the US has been in the past and still is today doesn’t fit my definition of a genuine liberal.

More likely a right winger in disguise..

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Posted: 28 August 2017 08:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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DougC.  The word despicable was an emotional word, and only my point of view.  I say it was presumptuous for at least two reasons: 1. if this article were simply about the events surrounding the 1900 hurricane I would have no objection.  But the tone is that this will likely happen again. (not to mention a lot his evidence is conjecture as well, “did this happen?  Probably”)  2. In the middle of a natural disaster it is not appropriate to assume the worst and try to link such an event to your personal ideology.

  “White supremacists are openly marching in the US and have already begun to kill those who are exercising their Constitutional rights to stand firm against them. Voting laws are being passed that are no different in intent and effect than the poll taxes that in the past have disenfranchised minority groups like African Americans, something that the Texan government and Trump openly support right now.”

  Yes, there was a horrible murder and attack perpetrated by a white supremacist.  But the violence recently has been disproportionately being committed by our side.  Or those that claim to be on our side, extremist and anarchist.  Just because you do not accept it or don’t believe it does not make it untrue.  What is worse is that now these people represent us without our consent and it is looked down upon to condemn their violence in many instances.  I don’t care if it is not a popular opinion, no one has the right to commit violence against another, no matter what they say or even do.  ANTIFA seems hell bent on starting another civil war. 

  There are no voting laws which restrict anyone from being able to vote.  There are no poll taxes.  Simply asking for an I.D. is more than reasonable regardless of the intention(which is obviously to hinder minorities from voting). But no one can accomplish anything in America without an I.D., and it is has been that way for too long to make an issue out of it.  The redistricting that took place a while back, now that was suppression.  But it was suppression of Democrats as a whole, not necessarily any particular race.  This problem should be amended.
 
  Sir, I am liberal, just because I don’t agree with everything you do doesn’t mean we don’t share the same broad political view.  I support DACA, planned parenthood, gun control, health care for all, stem cell research, right to choose regardless of financial means.  My ideas align perfectly with the moderate democratic platform; no I am not far left of center but I resent you calling to question my integrity and principles.  I have tried to be as fastidious and polite as I can when I present a formal issue, critique, or rebuttal.  I included in my post that this was completely personal, but it was not a personal attack.  It is not a stretch to see that this article was intended to incite anger, only the title and a few lines made it anything more than a history lesson.  Had the title been different, the timing been different, or the specious link not made, then I wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.  I might even use it as research material, but the author reveals his motive too easily.  Also, you forgot to criticize me on the spelling in the title of the thread.  Kind of makes me think you didn’t read it.

[ Edited: 28 August 2017 08:16 PM by WaylonCash ]
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Posted: 28 August 2017 08:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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MikeYohe - 28 August 2017 10:39 AM
Beltane - 28 August 2017 12:18 AM

Good find. It’s an absurd article but it is typical of the mainstream media now.

Trump is right about the most of the media.

  Trump is not right about most of the media; coincidentally one of his egotistical, self serving conspiracy theories happens to line up with what’s actually going on.  To imply that he is right about this would mean that its all about him.  It isn’t.  I refer you to broken clock analogy…

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Posted: 28 August 2017 09:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Don’t want to get into this discussion, but, we need not go back to 1900.

New Orleans Police Officers Plead Guilty in Shooting of Civilians
By CAMPBELL ROBERTSON - APRIL 20, 2016
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/21/us/hurricane-katrina-new-orleans-danziger-bridge-shootings.html

... The case began on Sept. 4, 2005, in a city still without order and drowning in floodwaters. Two groups of families and friends, all of them black,
were crossing the Danziger bridge in search of food and relatives when police officers rushed to the scene in a Budget rental truck.
The officers, responding to a distress call, opened fire with shotguns and AK-47s, sending those on the bridge, all of whom were unarmed,
diving and running for cover.

Four people were severely injured — one woman lost part of her arm — and two were killed: James Brisette, and Ronald Madison,
a 40-year-old developmentally disabled man who took a shotgun blast in the back. ...

              .        long face

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Posted: 28 August 2017 09:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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WaylonCash - 28 August 2017 08:11 PM

  But the violence recently has been disproportionately being committed by our side.

What you are is full of it, you’re basically echoing the voice of Trump and his “many sides” idiocy.

We’re talking about a man who almost certainly got into office by working closely with a government hostile to the US and by playing as hard as he could on all the existing divides in America, not just racial. It’s highly likely that one of Trump’s main functions is to create as much violence and chaos in the US as he can in Russia’s interests, his actions clearly support that.

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/19539/

Under the document that created the nation and sentiments of some of the most influential architects of the nation, it’s not just the right of Americans to oppose tyranny by any means at hand but their duty.

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

In case you missed it the US is already at war and it is already watering the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots like Heather Heyer.

Want to guess who the tyrant is in this paradigm?

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” - Thomas Jefferson

So blaming those who are already dying and being maimed by those working in the interests of a tyrant is supporting that tyrant whatever you may claim.

Which means you really aren’t on “our” side at all. People who care about other people don’t advocate the kind of eugenics - as you did in another thread - that led to the Holocaust.

Fascists do though.

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Posted: 28 August 2017 10:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

  Who is doing that to you?  Is it so tyrannical in the U.S. or are you just exaggerating?  None of the founding fathers could have predicted how far we advanced, none of this is relevant.  I am not blaming anyone who is dead or dying?  I mentioned eugenics once, obviously as great hyperbole, and only to make a point.  A point your own posts show you agree with.  I agree that trump is a fascist, certainly a tyrant.  If someone says one thing that aligns with another person, that does not mean they share the exact same beliefs.  I have been researching ANTIFA for a paper, and it is true they are inciting the majority of violence.  They show up with a violent mentality even when there are no white supremacist present.  During interviews with them they constantly promote violence, they were only organized at local levels a year ago, but have been recruiting and now are operating on a national level.  These guys are not the answer, they are college kids that want to be a part of something and feel like a hero.  Completely misguided…

  You’re not trying to show me where I am wrong in my assessment of this article, you’re pouting because all you care about is being right.  Well, your right.  Obviously, the only way to cast off the oppressive shackles of tyranny is to revolt, put down your mocha lattes, pick up your smart phones and join something you don’t truly understand for causes you have no idea about.  And don’t forget to take lots of selfies and tweet about it.  No one has taken your liberty.  The system just need to be revised with checks and balances instituted to correct all the recent mistakes that happened when everyone was living through their phones and not paying attention.  Infighting is our Black Death….

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Posted: 29 August 2017 07:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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WaylonCash - 28 August 2017 10:14 PM

  No one has taken your liberty. 

Yeah, though I suspect, like me, (and I suspect like you), we are all nice white boys.  So I’m thinking you are missing his point.

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Posted: 29 August 2017 08:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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I removed this post for personal reasons.

[ Edited: 29 August 2017 07:56 PM by WaylonCash ]
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Posted: 29 August 2017 10:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I was about to defend you Waylon. But this story ignores the privileges and opportunities you have had, due to the color of your skin. There are many good sources for understanding this, so I’m not going to attempt to summarize them.

One thing you might want to look into, juvenile crimes stick with you for life now.

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Posted: 29 August 2017 10:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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What privileges did I have?  I have a felony conviction, it stuck with me for 7 years.  I would like to understand.
  I was very reluctant to share this information, but I did knowing it would change the way I was viewed to make a point.  If you were going to defend me, what was the circumstance that changed it?  Could you give me a link to a resource containing information about juvenile records following you. I did a quick search and found nothing.  Everything I found says the opposite, only one article from Chicago Sun Times mentioned that child molesters, murderers, and violent offenders records may follow them.

  Please explain to me what I am missing.  This isn’t about opportunity or privilege, though the discussion is morphing into that.

[ Edited: 29 August 2017 10:34 AM by WaylonCash ]
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Posted: 29 August 2017 10:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Also, that is the third time in this discussion someone has said, “you’re missing the point”, but gives no effort to explain the point I have missed.  I am pretty sure I understand DougC’s point, it isn’t difficult.  But I am looking at it objectively without an axe to grind.  So I must mention how hypocritical his points are of his own stance in other threads.
“There is still a lot of strength left in the US in its Constitution and political structure, but the fact that the leader of Russia was able to shoehorn his candidate into the Oval Office is clear evidence of how bad things have become in US politics.
Trump is a stark lesson in the danger of letting any small fraction of the population take control of a nation in their interests, trump would never have been elected if the US election system hadn’t been so corrupted by massive amounts of money. People don’t matter there anymore, just who can pay the most to get their will done. ” - Doug C
  If this is your point of view then you agree with me that the problems must be solved within the system.  Although, the first sentence is a contradictory statement.  “hadn’t been so corrupted by massive amounts of money”, then you also agree with me that Citizens United is central to this problem and must be overturned, hence working within the system.  If it is dangerous to allow one faction of the population to take control of the nation, then you must agree this includes left populist.  In DougC’s thread “Is Too Much Liberalism a Good Thing?”, the first thing he does is question the tenets he is vehemently defending now, then doubles down on an opposite point of view at the first criticism.  http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/19320/
The reason I believe I can’t understand is because he has no beliefs of his own and has not taken stock and inventory of all the different ideas passed around media and internet to weed out the irrational, irrelevant, impossible, and the just plain ignorant.

  Now I do think we need systemic change, so we agree on that.  I also believe Trump was helped by the Russian hack to win the election.  But I think one of the reasons he still has so many supporters is that they can’t bear to admit they were wrong.  That they were duped and if they keep giving him a chance he may turn it around prove them right somehow.

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