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Posted: 03 September 2017 05:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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I was not referring to you Citizenchallenge, when I said “almost none of you actually read anyone else’s post”.  If you look a little closer you will realize that is not a typo it is a conscious attempt at spelling.  I am not the grammar police, but when you couple that with the overall summary of the OP, you can interpolate that he is incapable of objective analysis.  Everything that informs this guy is only the information his bias deems acceptable.
  Everything else, citizen, you are right about.  Especially:“and that making and that making mistakes is part of the learning process and not something to get all defensive about”, all of us on this forum, myself included, need to take this point to heart.  I admit I am a little disheartened by my own contribution to this problem, so feeling helpless I wrote that post. 
  Citizenchallenge, you are right.  We should not give up, we should try to educate and expose.  Mike is the closest thing to a representation of a dangerous opposing view point and you must debate him.  But I have read his posts across the forum and he is a weak facsimile of a much more calculating and unscrupulous opponent.
  I apologize for original post, it came from an emotional place.  But regardless, Mike yohe is an idiot and is only useful as a punching bag not a sparring partner.

[ Edited: 03 September 2017 05:56 AM by WaylonCash ]
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Posted: 03 September 2017 07:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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WaylonCash - 03 September 2017 05:53 AM

I was not referring to you Citizenchallenge, when I said “almost none of you actually read anyone else’s post”.  If you look a little closer you will realize that is not a typo it is a conscious attempt at spelling.  I am not the grammar police, but when you couple that with the overall summary of the OP, you can interpolate that he is incapable of objective analysis.  Everything that informs this guy is only the information his bias deems acceptable.
  Everything else, citizen, you are right about.  Especially:“and that making and that making mistakes is part of the learning process and not something to get all defensive about”, all of us on this forum, myself included, need to take this point to heart.  I admit I am a little disheartened by my own contribution to this problem, so feeling helpless I wrote that post. 
  Citizenchallenge, you are right.  We should not give up, we should try to educate and expose.  Mike is the closest thing to a representation of a dangerous opposing view point and you must debate him.  But I have read his posts across the forum and he is a weak facsimile of a much more calculating and unscrupulous opponent.
  I apologize for original post, it came from an emotional place.  But regardless, Mike yohe is an idiot and is only useful as a punching bag not a sparring partner.

Fair enough and I read that late last night, probably should have passed on commenting, but sometimes I can’t keep my mouth shut.

You are correct, although I do take on the bones his type tosses out, as a sort of challenge.  Phony’s like Yohe have provided me with many learning opportunities.  Unfortunately, that’s about as far as it goes, still haven’t converted one.  I hope perhaps it’s helps some onlookers.  But I’ll admit sure seems like it’s pissing in the wind.

cheers.

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Posted: 03 September 2017 11:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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WaylonCash - 02 September 2017 09:23 PM

None of you noticed he emphasized CREDITABILITY….
Really??? 
That’s what science needs CREDITABILITY; uhh the ability to use credit???
  It’s CREDIBILITY!!!
  Almost none of you actually read anyone else’s post.  Let alone the articles posted.  That has been the most significant trend I have seen on this forum.  If you read the OP and took a few minutes to reflect on it, you might come to the inevitable conclusion that he is a moron. 
  Why are we always trying to convince people who lack the level if comprehension required to process such concepts?  Hell, why are we trying to explain something that we don’t fully understand ourselves?
Unless you hold a PhD in an field associated with climate change, you have no business attempting to portray the role of spokesperson.

Sorry for you making your life ruff on understanding the misspelling of a word. I am sure that must have hurt you. I would take more time in reviewing my grammar, but your check has not arrived. So, deal with it.
 
I was trained on the American phonic alphabet to spell words the way they sound. There are no vowels or double consonants in that phonic alphabet. I have tried everything thinkable to pick up our alphabet with no luck. Maybe if we had computers and the internet and could have debated the good points of the American phonic alphabet, such as no illiteracy, years ago. Then today you would be using the phonic alphabet. Using the phonic alphabet would cut one year off schooling. Spelling bees would be impossible. The alphabet also has speed and volume which makes reading much more enjoyable.
 
I have spell check and grammar on the computer. But words are still going to get by that are incorrect. It isn’t that others on the site did not notice the misspelling. Most likely they are aware of my spelling mistakes. And for needing a PhD to debate a subject. There has only been one president with a PhD, Woodrow Wilson back in 1913. When it comes to money, you don’t even need an education or to speak the same language to understand money. And Trump slowing the flow of money is helping the science by letting it rebalance the political powers involved.

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Posted: 03 September 2017 12:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 02 September 2017 03:59 PM
MikeYohe - 02 September 2017 02:12 PM

All this chatter coming from a person who will not list the items of agreements and disagreements of the Global Warming issues between us so that a dialog can be done in a scientific method.

That from a guy who freely calls LIE, but doesn’t outline what he’s calling out as a lie.

You post and ask me to look at what George Manbiot has to say. OK, he starts off with a lie. Follow by another lie. And then starts a bitching. There is time spent I will never get back.

Come on list them.

You are also the guy that can’t enunciate serious questions to answer.

Here’s what we know for sure

* Global warming is definitely directly related to that hot Gulf of Mexico waters that fed an explosive intensification of a tropical storm.

* Global warming is definitely directly related to the fact that the atmosphere is holding more moisture and making it available for storm systems such as Harvey to collect and dump.

* Global warming is definitely directly related to the fact that our Jet Stream has gotten weirder and is currently causing the stalling and reversal of Harvey’s northward movement.

* Global warming is definitely directly related to the fact that sea level is rising and thus adding substantially to damaging storm surges.

* Global warming is definitely directly related the Brown Ocean Effect that continued feeding moisture, energy into Harvey after it made land fall.

 

I don’t give a f__k about what someone said about something else.  How about sticking to the facts of the geophysics involved.
Oh yeah, the suspicious is that you constitutionally incapable of it.

Now replace “Global Warming” with “Earth’s natural temperature cycles”. Unless you have the computer models agreeing, you really got nothing but the promoting of political agendas. Where’s the beef (science)? Give me something that both sides agree upon otherwise it is contested science you are using.

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Posted: 03 September 2017 12:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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trouble with the spam program on last posting.

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Posted: 03 September 2017 01:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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MikeYohe - 03 September 2017 12:32 PM

Now replace “Global Warming” with “Earth’s natural temperature cycles”. Unless you have the computer models agreeing, you really got nothing but the promoting of political agendas. Where’s the beef (science)? Give me something that both sides agree upon otherwise it is contested science you are using.

Well they have.  Only you need a serious education before you can understand how to read them.

Your criminality is that you believe it’s just fine to ignore the exquisitely detailed understanding scientists have established.
You can delude yourself with all that pompous bullshit that merely serves to underscore your profound lack of understanding for the most fundamental climate science understanding.

One more time

* Global warming is definitely directly related to that hot Gulf of Mexico waters that fed an explosive intensification of a tropical storm.

* Global warming is definitely directly related to the fact that the atmosphere is holding more moisture and making it available for storm systems such as Harvey to collect and dump.

* Global warming is definitely directly related to the fact that our Jet Stream has gotten weirder and is currently causing the stalling and reversal of Harvey’s northward movement.

* Global warming is definitely directly related to the fact that sea level is rising and thus adding substantially to damaging storm surges.

* Global warming is definitely directly related the Brown Ocean Effect that continued feeding moisture, energy into Harvey after it made land fall.

Everyone of those statements is based on observation and models based understanding.  There is a treasure trove of knowledge available for the curious with a good faith desire to understand our planet and her processes.

But, as in your case it means nothing, all you know is your political agenda.

The real tragedy is that Americans en mass had so little curiosity, so little critical thinking, so little concern for this Earth (our mother, in every sense of the word!), the thing that provides our life support system - that the con job was a cinch.  All it needed was driven very wealthy absolutists, ruthlessness and lacking all scruples, and zero concern for what they left behind for future generations, them and their sycophantic servants such as our pal here.

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Posted: 03 September 2017 02:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Follow up for CC from post #7.
The George Manbiot issue.
 
What is President Trump? He is not a true Republican or Democrat. He had to fight both parties during the election. He acts like a progressive.
 
George Monbiot says that President Trump censors the discussion of climate change.
 
That is a lie. What President Trump has done is stopped the American efforts of globalization of the world by the use of climate change. Now that was the real story that needs to be published. But who would publish the truth? Maybe Fox.  Now explain to me how he is censoring the discussion of climate change when we are discussing the matter right now! Do you feel censored, I don’t?
 
George Monbiot next sentence. This is why, though the links are clear and obvious, the majority of news reports on Hurricane Harvey have made no mention of the human contribution. Monbiot posted on September 2nd. On August 28th, Politico Magazine was saying Harvey Is What Climate Change Looks Like. The Guardian also on August 28th, It’s a fact: climate change made Hurricane Harvey more deadly. And that was written by somebody I think you know, Michael Mann.

Where are we on the count, three lies. Next, Trump believes Climate Change is a hoax. As of June 1st, Trump does not agree with that statement as reported in Newsweek. So we are being misled as the least.
 
Next, he blasts the news networks for their coverage. That’s correct and good. Then he says we should question the entire political and economic system as it relates to climate. That’s great. I agree.
 
Next, he is confusing by saying “climate breakdown” and linking to Harvey. He defined climate breakdown earlier to include our current economic policy and political system.
 
I will stop here because you get the idea. He didn’t balance his story by telling us that as CO2 has been on the rise and the number of hurricanes has been dropping over the last couple of decades. And that new data puts the hurricanes closer to matching the sun cycles than the CO2 data.

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Posted: 03 September 2017 06:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Who are you kidding you joker.  Donald trump is exactly who the Republican Party is!

He’d have been impeached by now, if not for that sad fact.
just for starters . . .

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Posted: 03 September 2017 07:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 03 September 2017 06:59 PM

Who are you kidding you joker.  Donald trump is exactly who the Republican Party is!

He’d have been impeached by now, if not for that sad fact.
just for starters . . .

I don’t know about “exactly”, but he’s not a progressive either. He’s blatantly pro-business. Anyway, it seems to me we’re in a transition phase, on the scale of the Southern Strategy. When it’s over, “Republican” will mean something different than it does now. It’s hard to imagine a three party system here, but there is a definite split going on and I don’t think the party names mean much of anything right now.

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Posted: 03 September 2017 08:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Science is science and facts are facts. My administration will ensure that there will be total transparency and accountability without political bias. The American people deserve this and I will make sure this is the culture of my administration.
 
Who do you think made this statement?

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Posted: 04 September 2017 07:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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MikeYohe - 03 September 2017 08:12 PM

Science is science and facts are facts. My administration will ensure that there will be total transparency and accountability without political bias.{What a great idea, I’m all for it.}
The American people deserve this and I will make sure this is the culture of my administration. 
 
Who do you think made this statement?

I don’t know, who?  John Kennedy?


Please don’t tell me your prez. trump.


For Your Eyes Only -  wouldn’t want to embarrass you in front of all your friends  kiss

T r u m p ’ s   L i e s

Many Americans have become accustomed to President Trump’s lies. But as regular as they have become,
the country should not allow itself to become numb to them.
So we have catalogued nearly every outright lie he has told publicly since taking the oath of office.
Updated July 21: The president is still lying, so we’ve added to this list, and provided links to the facts in each case.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html

All False statements involving Donald Trump

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Posted: 04 September 2017 07:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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All False statements involving Donald Trump

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/

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Posted: 04 September 2017 08:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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MikeYohe - 03 September 2017 02:15 PM

George Monbiot says that President Trump censors the discussion of climate change.
 
That is a lie. What President Trump has done is stopped the American efforts of globalization of the world by the use of climate change. Now that was the real story that needs to be published. But who would publish the truth? Maybe Fox.  Now explain to me how he is censoring the discussion of climate change when we are discussing the matter right now! Do you feel censored, I don’t?

Your train of logic is an amazing thing to try and follow.
But, yes the idiots and liars and slanders have been given another green light.

Can Trump Censor Climate Science?
08/31/2017 11:55 pm ET
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/can-trump-censor-climate-science_us_59a8d108e4b0bef3378cd786
Global warming embarrasses President Trump’s insular creed of “America First.” Government scientists recently confirmed all-time record-high temperatures and sea levels around the world. Yet President Trump has promised the United States will be virtually alone in refusing to honor the commitments it had made in the Paris climate agreement. Indeed, his administration has systematically deregulated previous efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, while dismantling efforts to protect the country’s air, water, and wildlife.

More elusive threats to climate science are lurking behind the scenes. The Trump administration ordered the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to shut down its climate webpage, gagged EPA and Department of Agriculture employees from using terms like “climate change” and “emissions reduction” in any written communications, and forbid scientists there from discussing their research with anyone outside of the agency. The White House has also defunded climate science and terminated ongoing studies into environmental threats ranging from the toxicity levels of Midwestern streams to the health risks of Appalachian mining.

The latest controversy concerns the Climate Science Special Report prepared by top scientists from 13 federal agencies. The next one—due out this month—won’t be released unless and until the Trump administration approves it. This is the President who’s referred to climate change as “bullshit” peddled by “so-called ‘scientists’” and a “total hoax” perpetrated by the Chinese. He’s also appointed staunch climate-change skeptics Scott Pruitt and Rick Perry to lead the EPA and Department of Energy. Little wonder the scientists who prepared the draft report were so worried it’d be edited, rejected, or concealed that they leaked a copy to the New York Times. ...

The climate report scientists are afraid Trump will censor, explained
The report is a reminder US climate politics are still insane.
David Roberts Aug 9, 2017,
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/8/9/16117406/leaked-climate-report-scandal

You’ll find words to love, while ignoring the essence of the article, namely that we have a president so hostile to climate science that they can no long trust his integrity to allow them to share their understanding.  Why?  Refer to the information offered in the first article.

On a related note, here’s some of the reasons why honest folks distrust and in fact fear the trump.

All False statements involving Donald Trump
http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/

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Posted: 04 September 2017 11:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Again, a lot of money science is all you got. I agree that all the items you listed affect global warming. As does the truck going across the golden gate bridge or the cows farting in Colorado.
 
None of these items are the MAIN DRIVING FORCE that caused Harvey to form. What is a hurricane? It is nature’s way of redistributing the energy on earth. What is the driving force that put that energy on earth? The sun of course. And when I say sun, it is understood that it is not the sun by itself. It is the sun used in combination with earth’s orbit, the moon, the water cycles, carbon based lifeforms, natural disasters, land changes, water vapor, greenhouse gasses and carbon dioxide. I listed them in order of importance. Greenhouse gasses and carbon dioxide being the least important. Ref: 58:45 from http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iObmapEm2a4

The CO2 helps hold some of the energy from going back out in space. But 93% of that energy that stays on earth is stored in the oceans. Ice could be freezing the Panama Canal and the CO2 level could be over a 1,000 ppm. You could pump more CO2 in the air and the Panama Canal would still freeze. Because the CO2 is not the main driving force. 
 
The problem we are dealing with today has more to do with political forces and money than the real science. The Republican leadership is threating to reduce funds on climate research. Are the Republican scientists complaining? If they are, you can’t hear them. The academics to the left, outnumber the conservatives by 8 to 1. As Jonathan Haidt names them the “tribal-moral community”.
 
How much money are we talking about each year? Well, the green groups get $500 million and the Feds are spending more than $10 billion. The groups that are supposed to keep the issues going down the correct path and inform the public, they get $15 million. So, $15 million. That’s not peanuts. Well compare to the other side it is. But we should be hearing something from them. Do you think that groups from the left that tried to get Attorney General Loretta Lynch to charge the think tanks not backing the CO2 as the main driving force with federal racketeering laws may have backed them off?  Seems like it did something. Their free speech rights must have gotten over powered by political forces. 
 
How long is the USA going to keep pumping billions into climate research? The answer is most likely, as long as the CO2 is looked at as the main driving force. If it is decided that the sun is the main driving force, then the funds will be directed to the infrastructure to combat global warming. CO2 research papers that cost the taxpayers a hundred billion will be moved to the college library to sit on the shelf next to the papers proving the existence of aether winds.
 
Just how political is climate science today? Trump wants Sam Clovis to work in the U.S. Department of Agriculture who disagrees with the scientific consensus on climate change. Now he has a battle to win. http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/348931-dems-prep-for-major-fight-over-trump-usda-science-pick

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Posted: 04 September 2017 02:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Here Mike.  Call this money science, please.  This is the report by Exxon Mobil that was hidden from the public for 30 yrs.  Their own scientists concluded co2 from fossil fuels would cause catastrophic climate change.  This is directly in opposition to their own interests.  Tell me they gave money to SRI to purposely make them look like assholes. This was Exxon, not influenced by other groups, and before climate change was a polotical issue,so I would consider that independent.  Make sure you actually scroll down and read the actual excerpts.  Then Google the American petroleum institute.
You can refute this to us if you choose, but if you read it, you and I will both know that deep down you that your only trying to justify yourself and not the truth.
https://www.smokeandfumes.org/documents/document16

[ Edited: 04 September 2017 02:21 PM by WaylonCash ]
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