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Yet another “Intelligent design” argument
Posted: 03 November 2017 03:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Write4U - 01 November 2017 05:59 PM

How do you know that? have you been “out there”?

I return the question to you as this is a 2 way street exchange. you all think you know it all and no one should dare to contest your view because you have a background in ‘science’ if at all. That’s pointless. Unless you think science is your god. then it’s your problem not mine.  Common sense dictates that if there are that many creatures here, there should be just as much out there. If you cannot see a germ unless you use a microscope, then the same process should be used in reverses outward. Now I can tell you there are no germs or micro organisms, it’s all in your head. but I know better. I am going my way and let you go yours. The day someone convinces me of something, I concede. Til then I am moving on.

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Posted: 03 November 2017 05:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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In your travels on forums, you may come across the phrase, burden of proof

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Posted: 06 November 2017 07:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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InBetween - 03 November 2017 01:23 PM

He does not refer to space aliens as “gods”, he does not. You guys need to drop that false accusation. IN fact he gets annoyed at those who, refer to beings who happen to simply be more evolved than we are,  as “Gods”.

I used a lower-case “g”, meaning that I was referring to a character from folklore.  Are you saying that he doesn’t claim that, for example, Quetzalcoatl was a space alien?  Quetzalcoatl was a god.  I don’t know how else to say it.

did you know that Phil Schneider, an American Geologist, Structural Engineer and Explosives Expert, came face to face with 2 Alien Grays, when he was working with the US Government back in 73, as they were digging underground tunnels to connect various Deep Underground military Bases?!?!? I believe this guy.

That’s fine.  Believe it if that’s what your judgment tells you.  My judgment tells me that an engineer who was supposedly working on what was a Secret project in the first place would have been put in prison if he disclosed that information to the public.  Therefore the government must not have believed his story about aliens either.

According to him, they have been living under earth for last 4 to 500 years.  And who knows how they got here?!

Yes, who knows?

BTW, Phil Schneider was strangled to dearth in 96. But not b4 he gave no less than 30 lectures about this.

Thirty lectures?  I found some of them on YouTube, so we have to figure millions have seen them by now.  And the government obviously doesn’t think they’re serious enough to have taken them off the Internet?

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Posted: 06 November 2017 05:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Lausten - 03 November 2017 02:02 PM
InBetween - 03 November 2017 01:23 PM

He does not refer to space aliens as “gods”, he does not.

Maybe he should have given the book a different title? !

He is not the one who chose it, his publisher pressured him to use it as I said in one of the above posts. At least that’s what he claim in the beginning of the book. And he is not the first I read who had such problem with publishers. Publishers probably recommend key words in the title that they think will be good magnets for readers to generate the most sales.  And I don’t blame them for that. As far as I am concerned, it was not misleading at all.

Anyway, glad you didn’t run away IB. Always good to stretch one’s logic muscles.

Well, that’s very nice of you to say that. Believe it or not, I LOVE Atheists, they are the ones who taught me to think outside the box….I mean a little bit, I still have ways to go. You should see me defending them on generally theistic websites. I beat the dung out of those who attack ‘em. MERCILESSLY! And how do you suppose I do that?!?!? by citing bible verses as there are so many that vouch on their behalf if one can discern, and from a totally unexpected angles. Amazing. To this day I still, deep in my heart, I believe they are the most honest category of all as far as Doing and not just lip servicing. When Jesus said something along the lines “you will do greater things than the ones I did.” In John 14:12 I think, I believe he meant that mankind will attain them through Science Because spiritually, we are Xtremely corrupt beings.

Being open minded, I’ll just ask an open ended question. Why do you believe Phil Schneider? There are no credentials in the universe that I would accept for an “alien spotter”. Claims like that require a couple more witnesses and some additional evidence. Barring that, some things would need to be explained; why didn’t he go back with a camera? Where did this happen? If they were there for 400 years, you’d think there’d be some evidence, like living quarters or some garbage.

Or, if you want to pursue a different angle, how am I suppressing this?

Well, he is dead. Murdered (that’s evidence # 1!). They tried to kill him at least 16 times b4 that. They killed him shortly after they killed a close colleague of his who also went public about this by writing a book. They probably never thought he would leave. He said he didn’t even pick up his last pay check!!! He showed his audience small blocks of special metal, metal they used to make Stealth fighters. According to him Aliens are the ones who let them in on this metal’s special make as it can withstand temperatures that range in the 10’s of 1000!!! He just blew the lid off the top when it comes to black budget, Mach 2 speed train that can go from east to west underground in 30 mns. He never got on it but his friend has.  His Ex wife said all the physical evidence has been removed when he has been found dead. He is all over UTube, even though they sanitized lot of what he said.

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Posted: 06 November 2017 10:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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If there were a designer god he woukd have died laughing by now. Not even a god could survive laughing as hard as he would have laughed at the antics of humans. He woukd have had to say, “What horror have I wrought!”

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Posted: 07 November 2017 05:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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You started with Daniken and that was for me all I needed to know…

I will put it this way. I was born in Czechoslovakia during rule of communism. I happened to never adopt any religious belief, nor even be considered “cultural christian”. That does not mean I dont like art, or that I dont appreciate beauty of cathedrals or churches, regardless that many of communists were also cultural barbarians.

When there was first approach of christianity to me i already had plenty of books with faerie tales. Faerie tales from Germany, Czech and Slovak republic and everything in the Central European region are ... little bit tough. They usually give sort of moral story, such as “dont trust strangers” or “you should bake the grandma in the oven”. So approach of christianity to me was through books, with christmas tales.

My reaction was like “ok, there is some moral in the story in the book, but why it should imply something more?”. Aswers like “its different” were not enough for me as a 10 year child, because there was followup question “how different?”.

Historians use scientific approach. Which means looking up in the archives. Journalists have to base their articles on facts, which can be proven and documented. This is how I perceive non-fiction literature. I did not read much of Daniken, but he took some fact and make huge exxageration on that base. In case of Bible, or Old and New Testament i percieve the whole as a subjective interpretation of events. Claim itself does not provide proof and thats why starting to argue with books is simply wrong. You have to first convince me that its objective non-fiction.

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Posted: 07 November 2017 05:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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LoisL - 06 November 2017 10:43 PM

If there were a designer god he woukd have died laughing by now. Not even a god could survive laughing as hard as he would have laughed at the antics of humans. He woukd have had to say, “What horror have I wrought!”

Speaking of which, right now one or maybe more than one of your own brain cells are laughing at what you uttered, they know you exist but here you are insinuating you don’t. Diiing! That’s basically what you are saying. ....Because if you Know for Sure, so do they….

[ Edited: 07 November 2017 05:23 PM by InBetween ]
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Posted: 07 November 2017 05:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Offler - 07 November 2017 05:39 AM

You started with Daniken and that was for me all I needed to know…

I will put it this way. I was born in Czechoslovakia during rule of communism. I happened to never adopt any religious belief, nor even be considered “cultural christian”. That does not mean I dont like art, or that I dont appreciate beauty of cathedrals or churches, regardless that many of communists were also cultural barbarians.

When there was first approach of christianity to me i already had plenty of books with faerie tales. Faerie tales from Germany, Czech and Slovak republic and everything in the Central European region are ... little bit tough. They usually give sort of moral story, such as “dont trust strangers” or “you should bake the grandma in the oven”. So approach of christianity to me was through books, with christmas tales.

My reaction was like “ok, there is some moral in the story in the book, but why it should imply something more?”. Aswers like “its different” were not enough for me as a 10 year child, because there was followup question “how different?”.

Historians use scientific approach. Which means looking up in the archives. Journalists have to base their articles on facts, which can be proven and documented. This is how I perceive non-fiction literature. I did not read much of Daniken, but he took some fact and make huge exxageration on that base. In case of Bible, or Old and New Testament i percieve the whole as a subjective interpretation of events. Claim itself does not provide proof and thats why starting to argue with books is simply wrong. You have to first convince me that its objective non-fiction.

I don’t need to convince you of anything as I love Atheists just the way they are. If they were just like me, I would not have had the privilege to learn from them in the past the way I have. The book is full of evidence. Of course one has to go out and double check everything that is cited on there. Or at least some of it. And that in and of itself requires some effort. I brought him up because I thought he might have the answer to how the God Idea came about. That’s it.

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Posted: 07 November 2017 08:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Offler said,
I brought him up because I thought he might have the answer to how the God Idea came about. That’s it.

You’ll need to go back much, much further in time.
We can go back in time by observing the behavior of our distant cousin, the chimpanzee.

I saw a recorded NOVA presentation of a family of common Chimpanzees during a monsoon storm.

While the entire family sought shelter as best they could, the Alpha male exercised his duty as protector of his family.
At one point he began to run around in a clearing, beating the ground and brush with a stick, to show his power to scare off out this “unseen enemy” who was making loud noises, and threw bright lights and water at him and his family. The end of the clip showed him standing in the middle of the clearing shaking his stick to the air above him, because he realized this threat came form “above”.

He had no idea this was a natural phenomenon, but assumed it was an “intentional assault” by an “unseen enemy” on his troupe. He had seen plenty of birds living in the sky, so he was familiar with the concept that living beings could and did live in the sky above, but he knew this was not an ordinary bird, but something much more powerful, even as it was invisible.

IMO, this was the first rudimentary assumption of a intentional but unseen being which lived in the sky. Later in the evolution of the homo sapiens’ brain, these unexplainable phenomena were given names such as the god of rain, the god of thunder, the god of lightning and still later in our evolution of the brain, eventually these gods were identified by proper names, such as Thor and a host of other “named” gods. And along with these “angry gods”, other named gods were invented, each ruling there own domain and occasionally making war on each other.

Throughout history, humans have ascribed various powers to supernatural beings. Chief among this world of spirits and powers are the immortal gods and goddesses. Some are given credit for the creation of the world and mankind, or food, warfare, love, and all the other good and bad elements of life. In pagan societies, people turned to specific gods for specific needs: seeking favor for good harvests, success in war, fertility in the home, and more.

https://www.thoughtco.com/gods-goddesses-of-world-mythology-120541

IMO, the concept of a god (an immortal, powerful, but unseen being or spirit) started with the first hominids, and to me this sounds like a very reasonable argument and also explains the persistence of belief in gods and other spiritual beings as being causal to unexplained natural phenomena, which to the ignorant must have appeared as “miracles”.  I believe this reasoning of the evolution of the god concept meets Occam Razor in explaining the origin of the concept itself.

Much later in the evolution of man, these concepts were not discarded, but refined and monotheism was born. But a variety of gods still exist in many cultures.

But as science is able to explain the natural physics of naturally occurring phenomena, the concept of god or gods is steadily declining.

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Posted: 07 November 2017 08:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Correction; the opening quote should have read “InBetween said:  etc

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Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

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Posted: 08 November 2017 12:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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InBetween - 07 November 2017 05:19 PM
LoisL - 06 November 2017 10:43 PM

If there were a designer god he woukd have died laughing by now. Not even a god could survive laughing as hard as he would have laughed at the antics of humans. He woukd have had to say, “What horror have I wrought!”

Speaking of which, right now one or maybe more than one of your own brain cells are laughing at what you uttered, they know you exist but here you are insinuating you don’t. Diiing! That’s basically what you are saying. ....Because if you Know for Sure, so do they….

Wow! How profound!

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Posted: 08 November 2017 12:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Write4U - 07 November 2017 08:25 PM

Offler said,
I brought him up because I thought he might have the answer to how the God Idea came about. That’s it.

You’ll need to go back much, much further in time.
We can go back in time by observing the behavior of our distant cousin, the chimpanzee.

I saw a recorded NOVA presentation of a family of common Chimpanzees during a monsoon storm.

While the entire family sought shelter as best they could, the Alpha male exercised his duty as protector of his family.
At one point he began to run around in a clearing, beating the ground and brush with a stick, to show his power to scare off out this “unseen enemy” who was making loud noises, and threw bright lights and water at him and his family. The end of the clip showed him standing in the middle of the clearing shaking his stick to the air above him, because he realized this threat came form “above”.

He had no idea this was a natural phenomenon, but assumed it was an “intentional assault” by an “unseen enemy” on his troupe. He had seen plenty of birds living in the sky, so he was familiar with the concept that living beings could and did live in the sky above, but he knew this was not an ordinary bird, but something much more powerful, even as it was invisible.

IMO, this was the first rudimentary assumption of a intentional but unseen being which lived in the sky. Later in the evolution of the homo sapiens’ brain, these unexplainable phenomena were given names such as the god of rain, the god of thunder, the god of lightning and still later in our evolution of the brain, eventually these gods were identified by proper names, such as Thor and a host of other “named” gods. And along with these “angry gods”, other named gods were invented, each ruling there own domain and occasionally making war on each other.

Throughout history, humans have ascribed various powers to supernatural beings. Chief among this world of spirits and powers are the immortal gods and goddesses. Some are given credit for the creation of the world and mankind, or food, warfare, love, and all the other good and bad elements of life. In pagan societies, people turned to specific gods for specific needs: seeking favor for good harvests, success in war, fertility in the home, and more.

https://www.thoughtco.com/gods-goddesses-of-world-mythology-120541

IMO, the concept of a god (an immortal, powerful, but unseen being or spirit) started with the first hominids, and to me this sounds like a very reasonable argument and also explains the persistence of belief in gods and other spiritual beings as being causal to unexplained natural phenomena, which to the ignorant must have appeared as “miracles”.  I believe this reasoning of the evolution of the god concept meets Occam Razor in explaining the origin of the concept itself.


Much later in the evolution of man, these concepts were not discarded, but refined and monotheism was born. But a variety of gods still exist in many cultures.

But as science is able to explain the natural physics of naturally occurring phenomena, the concept of god or gods is steadily declining.

There will always be those who refuse to think and can only believe what they were indoctrinated to believe, no matter how bizarre. What a waste of human brains!

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Posted: 08 November 2017 02:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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InBetween - 07 November 2017 05:33 PM

I don’t need to convince you of anything as I love Atheists just the way they are. If they were just like me, I would not have had the privilege to learn from them in the past the way I have. The book is full of evidence. Of course one has to go out and double check everything that is cited on there. Or at least some of it. And that in and of itself requires some effort. I brought him up because I thought he might have the answer to how the God Idea came about. That’s it.

\

Not even scientific books contain the evidence, rather report about it. You should be able to get to the archive, or museum or archeological site and seek for the evidence. Some books fail at that.

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Posted: 08 November 2017 07:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Offler - 07 November 2017 05:39 AM

Historians use scientific approach. Which means looking up in the archives. Journalists have to base their articles on facts, which can be proven and documented. This is how I perceive non-fiction literature. I did not read much of Daniken, but he took some fact and make huge exxageration on that base. In case of Bible, or Old and New Testament i percieve the whole as a subjective interpretation of events. Claim itself does not provide proof and thats why starting to argue with books is simply wrong. You have to first convince me that its objective non-fiction.

I’ve always thought that if von Daniken had had a little bit more imagination, he would have written his books in the form of novels, and he would have sold a lot more copies.

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Posted: 08 November 2017 08:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Advocatus - 08 November 2017 07:40 AM

I’ve always thought that if von Daniken had had a little bit more imagination, he would have written his books in the form of novels, and he would have sold a lot more copies.

Stories which are semi-fictional get more attention. Great example is Dan Brown and his use of modern buzzwords and how he worked with reality. Daniken either moved that into “Uri Geller” level, when his claims remain ambiguous, or to level of conspiracy theories.

I can closely relate that to nature of metal music culture. Some performers are clear about their real-life statements and they simply see the lyrics as figment of their own creativity. Other adopt the role of the bad guy on the stage, some play that even in real life. Its a way how to get more attention, even from the people who are not interested in the music itself - they will help to spread the word about the band, music or some of their act.

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