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Yet another “Intelligent design” argument
Posted: 08 November 2017 06:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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Write4U - 07 November 2017 08:25 PM

Offler said,
I brought him up because I thought he might have the answer to how the God Idea came about. That’s it.

You’ll need to go back much, much further in time.
We can go back in time by observing the behavior of our distant cousin, the chimpanzee.

I saw a recorded NOVA presentation of a family of common Chimpanzees during a monsoon storm.

While the entire family sought shelter as best they could, the Alpha male exercised his duty as protector of his family.
At one point he began to run around in a clearing, beating the ground and brush with a stick, to show his power to scare off out this “unseen enemy” who was making loud noises, and threw bright lights and water at him and his family. The end of the clip showed him standing in the middle of the clearing shaking his stick to the air above him, because he realized this threat came form “above”.

He had no idea this was a natural phenomenon, but assumed it was an “intentional assault” by an “unseen enemy” on his troupe. He had seen plenty of birds living in the sky, so he was familiar with the concept that living beings could and did live in the sky above, but he knew this was not an ordinary bird, but something much more powerful, even as it was invisible.

IMO, this was the first rudimentary assumption of a intentional but unseen being which lived in the sky. Later in the evolution of the homo sapiens’ brain, these unexplainable phenomena were given names such as the god of rain, the god of thunder, the god of lightning and still later in our evolution of the brain, eventually these gods were identified by proper names, such as Thor and a host of other “named” gods. And along with these “angry gods”, other named gods were invented, each ruling there own domain and occasionally making war on each other.

Throughout history, humans have ascribed various powers to supernatural beings. Chief among this world of spirits and powers are the immortal gods and goddesses. Some are given credit for the creation of the world and mankind, or food, warfare, love, and all the other good and bad elements of life. In pagan societies, people turned to specific gods for specific needs: seeking favor for good harvests, success in war, fertility in the home, and more.

https://www.thoughtco.com/gods-goddesses-of-world-mythology-120541

IMO, the concept of a god (an immortal, powerful, but unseen being or spirit) started with the first hominids, and to me this sounds like a very reasonable argument and also explains the persistence of belief in gods and other spiritual beings as being causal to unexplained natural phenomena, which to the ignorant must have appeared as “miracles”.  I believe this reasoning of the evolution of the god concept meets Occam Razor in explaining the origin of the concept itself.

Much later in the evolution of man, these concepts were not discarded, but refined and monotheism was born. But a variety of gods still exist in many cultures.

But as science is able to explain the natural physics of naturally occurring phenomena, the concept of god or gods is steadily declining.

This is very nice. Thank you so much for taking time. I have no problem with your entire post. I am personally not worried about god existing or not. What I am more into at this point is the visible vs. the invisible. What do you think of the visual of half full glass vs. the same glass being half empty. They are not mutually exclusive as they are both true. If that’s not a good example, let’s state for example a color that’s been bleached out by a chemical. Carbone monoxide, etc. science can sort out some stuff but not all of it. It’s on the way of doing that, but, while waiting for experts to get us there, what do we do in the mean time? Science tells us that there is no invisible anything but on the other hand, it seeks to break out to a parallel universe via building for example the great hadron collider. This causes me to be skeptical and rebellious. I hang on to this because I had experiences that necessitate for me to sort out before I move on. Thank you so much.

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Posted: 08 November 2017 07:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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InBetween - 08 November 2017 06:34 PM

Science tells us that there is no invisible anything but on the other hand, it seeks to break out to a parallel universe via building for example the great hadron collider. This causes me to be skeptical and rebellious. I hang on to this because I had experiences that necessitate for me to sort out before I move on. Thank you so much.

I believe you are looking at this from the wrong perspective.

In order to prove how the universe works, scientists need to create infinitely (relatively) small models of universal conditions as they may exist in its almost incomprehensible vastness.

To the universe the Cern collider is totally insignificant, but to our scientist it was a great leap in understanding one aspect of the greater whole.

Nothing we do on earth affects the universe, it affects only life on earth. The universe doesn’t care, never has, never will.

Compare the size of Cern,  where we managed to create a few bosons, to super-novae which create entire galaxies. Perspective!

[ Edited: 08 November 2017 07:34 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 09 November 2017 02:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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Write4U - 08 November 2017 07:19 PM

I believe you are looking at this from the wrong perspective.

In order to prove how the universe works, scientists need to create infinitely (relatively) small models of universal conditions as they may exist in its almost incomprehensible vastness.

Thank you. Pretty cool as outrageous as that sounds. Amazing!

To the universe the Cern collider is totally insignificant, but to our scientist it was a great leap in understanding one aspect of the greater whole.

Nothing we do on earth affects the universe, it affects only life on earth. The universe doesn’t care, never has, never will.

Compare the size of Cern,  where we managed to create a few bosons, to super-novae which create entire galaxies. Perspective!

I tried to look up the meaning of “boson” but Google threw me bunch of other terms I never heard of. Is boson a type of sub-atom, or sub/sub-atom?
And I never said the universe cared. Not that it’s not alive or it does not have its own brain or some type of equivalency. It probably does.
Also, something else, the thing about the monkey who thought the moon (and whatever else) has had it for him and his clan. Him having grown under it and accustomed to seeing it come on every night should eliminate the supposition or the conclusion the NOVA show gave. So we’re back to square one. But still, I agree with the general theme.

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Posted: 09 November 2017 07:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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InBetween said, I tried to look up the meaning of “boson” but Google threw me bunch of other terms I never heard of. Is boson a type of sub-atom, or sub/sub-atom?

Look up Higgs boson and Higgs field.

Higgs boson
The Higgs boson is an elementary particle in the Standard Model of particle physics. It is the quantum excitation of the Higgs field—a fundamental field of crucial importance to particle physics theory, first suspected to exist in the 1960s, which, unlike other known fields such as the electromagnetic field, takes a non-zero constant value almost everywhere

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson

and

The Higgs field is an energy field that is thought to exist everywhere in the universe. The field is accompanied by a fundamental particle called the Higgs boson, which the field uses to continuously interact with other particles.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_field

As we cannot observe the Higgs boson directly, we had to create the approximate conditions which allowed to make the Higgs boson visible. This was the reason for building the Cern collider, which is used also for other experiments of the fundamental nature of spacetime.

[ Edited: 09 November 2017 07:41 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 09 November 2017 07:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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The Cern collider is a remarkable machine. It is able to circulate two massive particles in opposite directions and on a collision course. Each particle cannot travel at the speed of light, but the closing speed between the particles comes close to attaining the speed of light (the universal constant “c”.)

Like two cars at 50 mph on a collision course will result in them closing and colliding at 100mph (50 + 50 = 100).

[ Edited: 09 November 2017 07:54 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 10 November 2017 09:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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Write4U - 09 November 2017 07:35 PM

  Look up Higgs boson and Higgs field.

Higgs boson
The Higgs boson is an elementary particle in the Standard Model of particle physics. It is the quantum excitation of the Higgs field—a fundamental field of crucial importance to particle physics theory, first suspected to exist in the 1960s, which, unlike other known fields such as the electromagnetic field, takes a non-zero constant value almost everywhere

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson

and

The Higgs field is an energy field that is thought to exist everywhere in the universe. The field is accompanied by a fundamental particle called the Higgs boson, which the field uses to continuously interact with other particles.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_field

As we cannot observe the Higgs boson directly, we had to create the approximate conditions which allowed to make the Higgs boson visible. This was the reason for building the Cern collider, which is used also for other experiments of the fundamental nature of spacetime.

WoW!!!!!
.....Now I have a sense of what you guys and girls mean.  Thank you ever Soooo OoooO so much!!!!!

Maybe I should start praying that Atheists take over the Educational System in this country…..and I mean this literally.

Please forgive my past, present and future idiocies. ... I almost have the goose bumps LMHO.

[ Edited: 10 November 2017 09:41 AM by InBetween ]
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Posted: 10 November 2017 09:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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Write4U - 09 November 2017 07:51 PM

The Cern collider is a remarkable machine. It is able to circulate two massive particles in opposite directions and on a collision course. Each particle cannot travel at the speed of light, but the closing speed between the particles comes close to attaining the speed of light (the universal constant “c”.)

Like two cars at 50 mph on a collision course will result in them closing and colliding at 100mph (50 + 50 = 100).

Yeah I got the speed part. And the universal constant “c”,  does it have to do with the theory of everything? because Google said it ” is a universal physical constant important in many areas of physics.”.

Also, another question.  How did they know the compounded speed of the 2 particles will come to add up to the speed of light, not below and not above? or is the sum of both a range within which the speed of light happens to ‘fall’? Thank you so much.

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Posted: 18 November 2017 03:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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InBetween - 10 November 2017 09:55 AM
Write4U - 09 November 2017 07:51 PM

The Cern collider is a remarkable machine. It is able to circulate two massive particles in opposite directions and on a collision course. Each particle cannot travel at the speed of light, but the closing speed between the particles comes close to attaining the speed of light (the universal constant “c”.)

Like two cars at 50 mph on a collision course will result in them closing and colliding at 100mph (50 + 50 = 100).

Yeah I got the speed part. And the universal constant “c”,  does it have to do with the theory of everything? because Google said it ” is a universal physical constant important in many areas of physics.”.

Also, another question.  How did they know the compounded speed of the 2 particles will come to add up to the speed of light, not below and not above? or is the sum of both a range within which the speed of light happens to ‘fall’? Thank you so much.

In my layman’s opinion, the speed of light (“c”) is a limit imposed by QM.  My speculation is that a quantum event requires time for the physical change of states. If something travels a superluminal (faster than light) speed it ceases to be physical beause there is not enough time for a physical quantum change to occur.

As I understand it, a massive particle can never attain “c” , but a photon has the ability to reach this speed because it has zero restmass and is exempt from the limitation of quantum change. However when a photon reaches “c” it does acquire mass from its momentum alone, and becomes subject to quantum limitation. So it is forever traveling at “c”, which may be the speed limit imposed by the Higgs field itself.

What I find most interesting is the fact that a photon instantly attains the speed of “c”, without having to accelerate to reach that speed. I believe this has profound secondary implications, as all massive particles require acceleration to reach their own speed limit allowed by its mass.

I may be completely wrong in this speculative thinking, but I intuit a fundamental aspect of the properties of spacetime.

[ Edited: 18 November 2017 03:15 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 20 November 2017 05:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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Write4U - 18 November 2017 03:09 PM


In my layman’s opinion, the speed of light (“c”) is a limit imposed by QM.  My speculation is that a quantum event requires time for the physical change of states. If something travels a superluminal (faster than light) speed it ceases to be physical because there is not enough time for a physical quantum change to occur.

“layman”? then I must be, ...a praying mantis. And to you I probably am.

You said “requires time”. Time is elastic. So in that regard it is unreliable. So why do we need it? 

What I find most interesting is the fact that a photon instantly attains the speed of “c”, without having to accelerate to reach that speed. I believe this has profound secondary implications, as all massive particles require acceleration to reach their own speed limit allowed by its mass.


I have a vertigo. LOL. how does a photon reach such speed without any “assistance? does it do it on its own?  and since a photon is massless, its “behavior, or mechanics”  can’t be compared to those of particles that are different than its own?

I may be completely wrong in this speculative thinking, but I intuit a fundamental aspect of the properties of spacetime.

“spacetime”. They are both alterable or manipul-able. So can their properties be relied on to conduct a work that will allow one to draw safe conclusions ? txs.

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[ Edited: 20 November 2017 05:12 PM by InBetween ]
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Posted: 07 February 2018 01:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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if we cannot tell the difference between higher being, and a god, is there really any difference???

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Posted: 07 February 2018 04:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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Write4U - 18 November 2017 03:09 PM

As I understand it, a massive particle can never attain “c” , but a photon has the ability to reach this speed because it has zero restmass and is exempt from the limitation of quantum change. However when a photon reaches “c” it does acquire mass from its momentum alone, and becomes subject to quantum limitation. So it is forever traveling at “c”, which may be the speed limit imposed by the Higgs field itself.

I think you mean relativity theory, not quantum mechanics. c is the ‘cosmic speed limit’. It is the only possible velocity of all particles without mass.(Photons, gravitation). As you say, particles with mass can never reach c. You can pump more and more energy in them, but the effect on the velocity becomes less and less (but energy and momentum increase further). I am not aware of any connection with the Higgs, because photons do not interact with the Higgs-field. And not all masses are due to interaction with the Higgs field.

Write4U - 18 November 2017 03:09 PM

What I find most interesting is the fact that a photon instantly attains the speed of “c”, without having to accelerate to reach that speed. I believe this has profound secondary implications, as all massive particles require acceleration to reach their own speed limit allowed by its mass.

Photons are the quanta of the Electro-Magnetic field. Any change in an electrical or magnetic field travels with c. So there is no need to accelerate for photons: it is their natural velocity.

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Posted: 07 February 2018 04:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
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InBetween - 20 November 2017 05:08 PM

I may be completely wrong in this speculative thinking, but I intuit a fundamental aspect of the properties of spacetime.

“spacetime”. They are both alterable or manipul-able. So can their properties be relied on to conduct a work that will allow one to draw safe conclusions ? txs.

Spacetime is four-dimensional: 3 space directions and one time direction. c is the ‘scaling factor’ between the space dimensions on one side, and the time dimension on the other. See Minkowski diagram.

Spacetime can only be ‘manipulated’ by velocity (and gravitation). One can imagine it like this: when you move in space, you move less in time. So ‘manipulations’ of spacetime are related, like a rotation in normal 3-D space: when a line turns shorter from your view point because it rotates, you can bet on it that there is at least one other view point, where the line becomes longer.

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Posted: 07 February 2018 08:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
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Erickem - 07 February 2018 01:47 AM

if we cannot tell the difference between higher being, and a god, is there really any difference???

That depends how you define “god”.  The general definition is “a superior being of supreme power and worthy of unconditional worship”.  I personally have very high standards for “unconditional worship”.  smile

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Posted: 07 February 2018 10:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
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Advocatus - 07 February 2018 08:01 AM
Erickem - 07 February 2018 01:47 AM

if we cannot tell the difference between higher being, and a god, is there really any difference???

That depends how you define “god”.  The general definition is “a superior being of supreme power and worthy of unconditional worship”.  I personally have very high standards for “unconditional worship”.  smile

This whole “worship” notion is intentional misleading, because it assumes that the higher “state of being” is also sentient.

If we were to replace the term “worship” with “respect for it’s implacable power” then we are looking in the right direction, IMO.

From Webster;

Definition of implacable
: not placable : not capable of being appeased, significantly changed, or mitigated

Thus worship is a self-serving activity to make the person doing the worshipping believe he/she is actually communicating with a higher sentience.

Of course this would be a waste of time, but might in fact offer comfort to an individual’s psyche.

[ Edited: 08 February 2018 01:20 AM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 08 February 2018 12:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
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Erickem - 07 February 2018 01:47 AM

if we cannot tell the difference between higher being, and a god, is there really any difference???

We cant tell difference between something existing and non existing if we dont have objective fact proving that. We can tell only the burden of proof on side of people who claim there is such being.

Yet the question you ask is answered by thelogians in a manner that you should be able to tell difference between God and Devil - which is actually just a personification for good and evil.

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