7 of 9
7
Why is death not the “answer”?
Posted: 14 October 2017 06:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 91 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7809
Joined  2009-02-26

@ Titanomachine

This may be of interest in context of the discussion:

“Based on these interviews, he compiled a list of ten dimensions of complexity-ten pairs of apparently antithetical characteristics that are often both present in the creative minds. The list includes:

1. Bursts of impulsiveness that punctuate periods of quiet and rest.

2. Being smart yet extremely naive.

3. Large amplitude swings between extreme responsibility and irresponsibility.

4. A rooted sense of reality together with a hefty dose of fantasy and imagination.

5. Alternating periods of introversion and extroversion.

6. Being simultaneously humble and proud.

7. Psychological androgyny-no clear adherence to gender role stereotyping.

8. Being rebellious and iconoclastic yet respectful to the domain of expertise and its history.

9. Being on one had passionate but on the other objective about one’s own work.

10. Experiencing suffering and pain mingled with exhilaration and enjoyment.”

Mario Livio, The Equation That Couldn’t Be Solved: How Mathematical Genius Discovered the Language of Symmetry


https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/226501-the-equation-that-couldn-t-be-solved-how-mathematical-genius-discovered

 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 October 2017 11:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 92 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1007
Joined  2015-12-29

That is actually not relevant at all to the discussion. What I am saying it that sometimes life feels too long. The fact that living isn’t mandatory bothers me, it makes me wonder why bother building a life is one doesn’t have to live. But without the courage to end it, it just feels like I have to seek things to fill my time until I die lest I spend the rest of existence bored. If I don’t have to stay alive, then why bother?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 October 2017 11:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 93 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1601
Joined  2016-12-24
LoisL - 13 October 2017 09:24 AM
Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 11 October 2017 07:48 AM

Titanomachina I still think you would appreciate
“The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance” simply reading along with Phaedrus’ sturm und drang I believe you would find fascinating.


yeah, yeah typos - eyes and fingers don’t harmonize on this newfangle lousy keyboard apple has switched to.
Oh for the good old days   tongue wink

It’s Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

The Zen part should not be overlooked.

Ouch, yes.  sick  But I did include it earlier!  red face

Now that you bring it up, I actually engaged in Zen and the Art of VW hippy maintenance on a road trip, it works.
Oh but that was the good old days.
These new fangled cars, >90s, no zen will help with the maintenance, so I just drive ‘em easy and have my mechanic who’s fortunately zen like.

Guess I got too caught up thinking about Phaedrus, that dude was not Zen like, as I remember it.
and i still think T would find Phaedrus most interesting.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 October 2017 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 94 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1601
Joined  2016-12-24
LoisL - 08 October 2017 12:02 AM
Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 06 October 2017 07:59 AM

Or as my dear Auntie Rosanna Anna Danna used to say,
Life means as little or as much as you want it to mean.  kiss

It was Roseanne Roseannadanna

Sheesh!

Oh poop, you busted me. 
It’s true i never did visit her near as often as they tell me I should have,
and I never was any good at writing letters, so thanks for setting me straight.

Got it,
Auntie Roseanne Roseannadanna, god rest her frisky little soul.

thanks   kiss

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 October 2017 12:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 95 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1007
Joined  2015-12-29

Again, this is getting off topic.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 October 2017 12:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 96 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1007
Joined  2015-12-29

What I am saying is that if I don’t have to stay alive then why bother? Without any sort of grand purpose or use then why struggle? Joy and pleasure only make sense to me if I have to stay alive, because if I have to I might as well make it pleasant until the end. But I don’t have to stay alive, and that makes it apparent that I don’t want to be alive. I don’t see life as a journey or adventure, becuaee that’s not what it is. It seems like a cage match where it’s just struggle after struggle until you are broken and then only way out is death.

Life just seems so long, especially when you don’t have to be here. And if I don’t have to be here then why continue?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 October 2017 03:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 97 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4314
Joined  2014-06-20
Titanomachina - 15 October 2017 12:40 PM

What I am saying is that if I don’t have to stay alive then why bother? Without any sort of grand purpose or use then why struggle? Joy and pleasure only make sense to me if I have to stay alive, because if I have to I might as well make it pleasant until the end. But I don’t have to stay alive, and that makes it apparent that I don’t want to be alive. I don’t see life as a journey or adventure, becuaee that’s not what it is. It seems like a cage match where it’s just struggle after struggle until you are broken and then only way out is death.

Life just seems so long, especially when you don’t have to be here. And if I don’t have to be here then why continue?

If you haven’t been able to find a reason for living by the time you reach adulthood, I’m sorry to say you’re probably sunk. You had a shot at making your life worth living you have apparentlyfailed. Most people manage to something or create a life worth living. It’s unfortinate that you couldn’t do it. As far as anyone can tell, you only get one chance and you blew it.

 Signature 

[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 October 2017 03:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 98 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1007
Joined  2015-12-29
LoisL - 15 October 2017 03:16 PM
Titanomachina - 15 October 2017 12:40 PM

What I am saying is that if I don’t have to stay alive then why bother? Without any sort of grand purpose or use then why struggle? Joy and pleasure only make sense to me if I have to stay alive, because if I have to I might as well make it pleasant until the end. But I don’t have to stay alive, and that makes it apparent that I don’t want to be alive. I don’t see life as a journey or adventure, becuaee that’s not what it is. It seems like a cage match where it’s just struggle after struggle until you are broken and then only way out is death.

Life just seems so long, especially when you don’t have to be here. And if I don’t have to be here then why continue?

If you haven’t been able to find a reason for living by the time you reach adulthood, I’m sorry to say you’re probably sunk. You had a shot at making your life worth living you have apparentlyfailed. Most people manage to something or create a life worth living. It’s unfortinate that you couldn’t do it. As far as anyone can tell, you only get one chance and you blew it.

It’s not a matter of creating, it’s know that whatever you create doesn’t matter. That knowing you don’t have to stay alive. Knowing that nothing you make or create will change it and that the void will still be there. D you think creating a life worth living solves the problem it doesn’t, you just hide from it. None of it matters and none of it is necessary. They don’t understand that in death there is no need for anything they work for and they can’t take it with them.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 October 2017 04:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 99 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4167
Joined  2009-10-21

You can’t take it with you? I’ve never heard that before!! Pure genius. You should get that copyrighted.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 October 2017 05:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 100 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1007
Joined  2015-12-29

I’m being serious here.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 October 2017 08:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 101 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1601
Joined  2016-12-24
Lausten - 15 October 2017 04:50 PM

You can’t take it with you? I’ve never heard that before!! Pure genius. You should get that copyrighted.

Titanomachina - 15 October 2017 05:48 PM

I’m being serious here.

Into this world you were born naked, and out of the world naked you will leave.

I heard it in a western once: “My life is but a journey from my birthplace to the place of my death.”
As he rode off into the sunset.

Point being, all those truisms don’t mean you need to make every day a living misery.
Nor are they a good reason to kill to yourself.
Although there are too many people on this planet already, but lets be pragmatic, that’s a different story.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 15 October 2017 10:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 102 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1007
Joined  2015-12-29
Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 15 October 2017 08:10 PM
Lausten - 15 October 2017 04:50 PM

You can’t take it with you? I’ve never heard that before!! Pure genius. You should get that copyrighted.

Titanomachina - 15 October 2017 05:48 PM

I’m being serious here.

Into this world you were born naked, and out of the world naked you will leave.

I heard it in a western once: “My life is but a journey from my birthplace to the place of my death.”
As he rode off into the sunset.

Point being, all those truisms don’t mean you need to make every day a living misery.
Nor are they a good reason to kill to yourself.
Although there are too many people on this planet already, but lets be pragmatic, that’s a different story.

It’s more like how if living isn’t mandatory then why are we here? If you aren’t obligated or mandated to do anything, then why do it? There isn’t anything we “have to” do, even if we think so. Helping others doesn’t work since all I am doing is facilitating an environment where they can notice the meaninglessness we live in. They can see nothing has any grand purpose and all the meaning is whatever we decide on and it vanishes with us.

Maybe ligotti was right and life is a confidence trick we play on ourselves to avoid facing the cruelty of reality and the nature of our existence.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 October 2017 06:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 103 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4167
Joined  2009-10-21
Titanomachina - 15 October 2017 10:05 PM
Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 15 October 2017 08:10 PM
Lausten - 15 October 2017 04:50 PM

You can’t take it with you? I’ve never heard that before!! Pure genius. You should get that copyrighted.

Titanomachina - 15 October 2017 05:48 PM

I’m being serious here.

Into this world you were born naked, and out of the world naked you will leave.

I heard it in a western once: “My life is but a journey from my birthplace to the place of my death.”
As he rode off into the sunset.

Point being, all those truisms don’t mean you need to make every day a living misery.
Nor are they a good reason to kill to yourself.
Although there are too many people on this planet already, but lets be pragmatic, that’s a different story.

It’s more like how if living isn’t mandatory then why are we here? If you aren’t obligated or mandated to do anything, then why do it? There isn’t anything we “have to” do, even if we think so. Helping others doesn’t work since all I am doing is facilitating an environment where they can notice the meaninglessness we live in. They can see nothing has any grand purpose and all the meaning is whatever we decide on and it vanishes with us.

Maybe ligotti was right and life is a confidence trick we play on ourselves to avoid facing the cruelty of reality and the nature of our existence.

It’s hard to take you seriously. When you ask “do you think creating a life worth living solves the problem?”, how do I answer that? If the problem is that life is not worth living, and you know how to create one worth living, then, yes, you’ve solved the problem. You then present death as if that somehow negates life. It doesn’t. It’s the part that comes at the end.

Even better, “Helping others doesn’t work”, doesn’t work for whom? If they are in pain, and you help them, I think they will see that as helpful. They might experience some other pain, but a lot of people will take that trade off.

And your final statement, that life is a trick to avoid the nature of existence. You just said, life is a trick to avoid life. I don’t think you need to spend any more time reading Ligotti.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 October 2017 07:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 104 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4314
Joined  2014-06-20
Titanomachina - 15 October 2017 03:25 PM
LoisL - 15 October 2017 03:16 PM
Titanomachina - 15 October 2017 12:40 PM

What I am saying is that if I don’t have to stay alive then why bother? Without any sort of grand purpose or use then why struggle? Joy and pleasure only make sense to me if I have to stay alive, because if I have to I might as well make it pleasant until the end. But I don’t have to stay alive, and that makes it apparent that I don’t want to be alive. I don’t see life as a journey or adventure, becuaee that’s not what it is. It seems like a cage match where it’s just struggle after struggle until you are broken and then only way out is death.

Life just seems so long, especially when you don’t have to be here. And if I don’t have to be here then why continue?

If you haven’t been able to find a reason for living by the time you reach adulthood, I’m sorry to say you’re probably sunk. You had a shot at making your life worth living you have apparentlyfailed. Most people manage to something or create a life worth living. It’s unfortinate that you couldn’t do it. As far as anyone can tell, you only get one chance and you blew it.

It’s not a matter of creating, it’s know that whatever you create doesn’t matter. That knowing you don’t have to stay alive. Knowing that nothing you make or create will change it and that the void will still be there. D you think creating a life worth living solves the problem it doesn’t, you just hide from it. None of it matters and none of it is necessary. They don’t understand that in death there is no need for anything they work for and they can’t take it with them.

Why have you chosen to live then? You could end your suffering at any time, yet you haven’t. So even you must have a reason to live, even if it’s by default and even if you can’t articulate it.

 Signature 

[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

Profile
 
 
Posted: 16 October 2017 01:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 105 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1007
Joined  2015-12-29
Lausten - 16 October 2017 06:11 AM
Titanomachina - 15 October 2017 10:05 PM
Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 15 October 2017 08:10 PM
Lausten - 15 October 2017 04:50 PM

You can’t take it with you? I’ve never heard that before!! Pure genius. You should get that copyrighted.

Titanomachina - 15 October 2017 05:48 PM

I’m being serious here.

Into this world you were born naked, and out of the world naked you will leave.

I heard it in a western once: “My life is but a journey from my birthplace to the place of my death.”
As he rode off into the sunset.

Point being, all those truisms don’t mean you need to make every day a living misery.
Nor are they a good reason to kill to yourself.
Although there are too many people on this planet already, but lets be pragmatic, that’s a different story.

It’s more like how if living isn’t mandatory then why are we here? If you aren’t obligated or mandated to do anything, then why do it? There isn’t anything we “have to” do, even if we think so. Helping others doesn’t work since all I am doing is facilitating an environment where they can notice the meaninglessness we live in. They can see nothing has any grand purpose and all the meaning is whatever we decide on and it vanishes with us.

Maybe ligotti was right and life is a confidence trick we play on ourselves to avoid facing the cruelty of reality and the nature of our existence.

It’s hard to take you seriously. When you ask “do you think creating a life worth living solves the problem?”, how do I answer that? If the problem is that life is not worth living, and you know how to create one worth living, then, yes, you’ve solved the problem. You then present death as if that somehow negates life. It doesn’t. It’s the part that comes at the end.

Even better, “Helping others doesn’t work”, doesn’t work for whom? If they are in pain, and you help them, I think they will see that as helpful. They might experience some other pain, but a lot of people will take that trade off.

And your final statement, that life is a trick to avoid the nature of existence. You just said, life is a trick to avoid life. I don’t think you need to spend any more time reading Ligotti.

Not that it’s a trick to avid living but to avoid dealing with the truth and exposing the positives as lies.

Death does in as sense negate life. I mean creating a life worth living seems to make sense if one has to stay alive. But if one doesn’t have to, then there isn’t a need to make a life worth living nor do they have to. They can just die. I mean in the end you won’t remember what you did in your life, none of those experiences live on and you can’t take them with you. There isn’t a difference between dying now and later. Regret does with you also, so there doesn’t seem to be any reason to keep living.

Profile
 
 
   
7 of 9
7