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Why death is not the answer
Posted: 27 September 2017 09:28 AM   [ Ignore ]
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This isn’t so much about the Vietnam documentary currently airing on PBS, just about one of the men’s stories. He’s a marine. In the first few episodes you get what it was like for him to decide to enlist, then how the fights went, how two people were wounded carrying him off the battlefield, how 3 doctors walked by him giving him up for dead, then his years of having no real relationships with people because America was not too welcoming of its Vietnam Vets. He held his handgun to his head on more than one evening. Then he discovered the anti-war movement and his life had meaning again.

http://www.military.com/off-duty/television/2017/09/18/john-musgrave-plays-key-part-ken-burns-vietnam-war-series-pbs.html

[ Edited: 27 September 2017 12:09 PM by Lausten ]
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Posted: 27 September 2017 02:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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First and most important I’m happy that the young Marine chose life.
Second, I haven’t seen a minute of the documentary because I was there and still am more than aware of what went on in Vietnam and back in what we called the world.  I don’t pretend to know everything about what went on but I know more than enough to prefer to keep dormant memories dormant.  But knowing how well Mr. Burns has done with other documentaries its probably best for those who weren’t there to take a good look see, then do a lot of thinking.

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Posted: 09 October 2017 03:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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deros - 27 September 2017 02:11 PM

First and most important I’m happy that the young Marine chose life.
Second, I haven’t seen a minute of the documentary because I was there and still am more than aware of what went on in Vietnam and back in what we called the world.  I don’t pretend to know everything about what went on but I know more than enough to prefer to keep dormant memories dormant.  But knowing how well Mr. Burns has done with other documentaries its probably best for those who weren’t there to take a good look see, then do a lot of thinking.


Pilger Criticizes Ken Burns’s ‘The Vietnam War’

For decades, the U.S. mainstream media has shied away from a clear-eyed view of the Vietnam War, not wanting to offend the war’s apologists, a residue of which tainted the recent PBS series, as John Pilger told Dennis J Bernstein.

By Dennis J Bernstein
 

October 03, 2017 “Information Clearing House” - Ken Burns’s 18-hour documentary on the Vietnam War, which aired on PBS and BBC, presented extraordinary footage of the war’s grotesque brutality but also soft-pedaled the motivations of U.S. policymakers as well-meaning albeit misguided, or as the prologue put it, a conflict begun in “good faith by decent people out of fateful misunderstandings.”

This glossing over of U.S. neocolonialism and its deadly consequences angered John Pilger, who cut his journalistic teeth covering the Vietnam War for a decade. I spoke to Pilger after he watched the first couple of hours of the highly touted series.

Dennis Bernstein: I was reading your piece called “The Killing of History” and these lines stood out for me: “The revisionism never stops and the blood never dies. The invader is pitied and purged of guilt while ‘searching for some meaning in this terrible tragedy’.” What is your initial response to the framework of the film?

John Pilger: That quote, “searching for some meaning in this terrible tragedy,” is from Lynn Novick, who is Ken Burns’ collaborator on this series on the Vietnam War. If we don’t understand the meaning of the Vietnam War by now, I don’t know where our brains have been all these years.

Like so many colonial wars, it was an invasion based on a series of deceptions and lies. This is effectively denied in the Burns series. It starts off with the narrator saying that it was all conducted in good faith by decent people. It was all a big misunderstanding that grew out of the Cold War, and so on. That is complete nonsense.

 

 


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/47954.htm

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Posted: 09 October 2017 07:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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So, this is not an apologia for Ken Burns’ apologia of Kennedy. This is a story of a man who believed he was doing the right thing, learned from experience, dealt with being wrong, then found a new life with other like minded people.

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Posted: 09 October 2017 12:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Lausten - 09 October 2017 07:04 AM

So, this is not an apologia for Ken Burns’ apologia of Kennedy. This is a story of a man who believed he was doing the right thing, learned from experience, dealt with being wrong, then found a new life with other like minded people.

Just doing the right thing. Like the Nazis - just following orders.

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Posted: 09 October 2017 06:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Adamski - 09 October 2017 12:23 PM
Lausten - 09 October 2017 07:04 AM

So, this is not an apologia for Ken Burns’ apologia of Kennedy. This is a story of a man who believed he was doing the right thing, learned from experience, dealt with being wrong, then found a new life with other like minded people.

Just doing the right thing. Like the Nazis - just following orders.

And then he realized he wss wrong. What is your problem?

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Posted: 09 October 2017 10:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Lausten - 09 October 2017 06:11 PM
Adamski - 09 October 2017 12:23 PM
Lausten - 09 October 2017 07:04 AM

So, this is not an apologia for Ken Burns’ apologia of Kennedy. This is a story of a man who believed he was doing the right thing, learned from experience, dealt with being wrong, then found a new life with other like minded people.

Just doing the right thing. Like the Nazis - just following orders.

And then he realized he wss wrong. What is your problem?

How tragic. He didn’t mean to be trained killer. It was all a mistake

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Posted: 10 October 2017 04:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Adamski - 09 October 2017 10:06 PM
Lausten - 09 October 2017 06:11 PM
Adamski - 09 October 2017 12:23 PM
Lausten - 09 October 2017 07:04 AM

So, this is not an apologia for Ken Burns’ apologia of Kennedy. This is a story of a man who believed he was doing the right thing, learned from experience, dealt with being wrong, then found a new life with other like minded people.

Just doing the right thing. Like the Nazis - just following orders.

And then he realized he wss wrong. What is your problem?

How tragic. He didn’t mean to be trained killer. It was all a mistake

Seriously, what is wrong with you? Are you saying every young man in history who ever took up a weapon had a character flaw? That the entire military history of the world is simply bad choices made by young men following the direction of older men?

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Posted: 10 October 2017 12:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Lausten - 10 October 2017 04:26 AM
Adamski - 09 October 2017 10:06 PM
Lausten - 09 October 2017 06:11 PM
Adamski - 09 October 2017 12:23 PM
Lausten - 09 October 2017 07:04 AM

So, this is not an apologia for Ken Burns’ apologia of Kennedy. This is a story of a man who believed he was doing the right thing, learned from experience, dealt with being wrong, then found a new life with other like minded people.

Just doing the right thing. Like the Nazis - just following orders.

And then he realized he wss wrong. What is your problem?

How tragic. He didn’t mean to be trained killer. It was all a mistake

Seriously, what is wrong with you? Are you saying every young man in history who ever took up a weapon had a character flaw? That the entire military history of the world is simply bad choices made by young men following the direction of older men?

Yes when it comes to unjust illegal wars of aggression.
muhammond Ali had no problem in identifying this

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Posted: 10 October 2017 01:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Adamski - 10 October 2017 12:59 PM

Yes when it comes to unjust illegal wars of aggression.
muhammond Ali had no problem in identifying this

I’m not arguing for war. That Muhammad Ali and many other people took a conscientious stand does not make the reality of how wars have been prosecuted throughout time any different.

I didn’t miss you while you were gone and won’t miss you when you leave again.

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Posted: 10 October 2017 11:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Lausten - 10 October 2017 01:12 PM
Adamski - 10 October 2017 12:59 PM

Yes when it comes to unjust illegal wars of aggression.
muhammond Ali had no problem in identifying this

I’m not arguing for war. That Muhammad Ali and many other people took a conscientious stand does not make the reality of how wars have been prosecuted throughout time any different.

I didn’t miss you while you were gone and won’t miss you when you leave again.

Poor old Americas. Victims of their own imperialist wars.

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Posted: 11 October 2017 06:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Adamski - 10 October 2017 11:44 PM
Lausten - 10 October 2017 01:12 PM
Adamski - 10 October 2017 12:59 PM

Yes when it comes to unjust illegal wars of aggression.
muhammond Ali had no problem in identifying this

I’m not arguing for war. That Muhammad Ali and many other people took a conscientious stand does not make the reality of how wars have been prosecuted throughout time any different.

I didn’t miss you while you were gone and won’t miss you when you leave again.

Poor old Americas. Victims of their own imperialist wars.

Where are you from again? Australia? Doesn’t matter, it doesn’t make you immune from imperialism or war.

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Posted: 11 October 2017 07:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Lausten - 10 October 2017 01:12 PM

I didn’t miss you while you were gone and won’t miss you when you leave again.

With style and panache.

What a shame we don’t have those “like” buttons

You help keep this place alive Lausten.

A humble hat tip wink

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Posted: 11 October 2017 12:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Lausten - 11 October 2017 06:21 AM
Adamski - 10 October 2017 11:44 PM
Lausten - 10 October 2017 01:12 PM
Adamski - 10 October 2017 12:59 PM

Yes when it comes to unjust illegal wars of aggression.
muhammond Ali had no problem in identifying this

I’m not arguing for war. That Muhammad Ali and many other people took a conscientious stand does not make the reality of how wars have been prosecuted throughout time any different.

I didn’t miss you while you were gone and won’t miss you when you leave again.

Poor old Americas. Victims of their own imperialist wars.

Where are you from again? Australia? Doesn’t matter, it doesn’t make you immune from imperialism or war.

On that note - Australia participated in Vietnam.

https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/event/vietnam

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Posted: 12 October 2017 05:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Beltane - 11 October 2017 12:24 PM
Lausten - 11 October 2017 06:21 AM
Adamski - 10 October 2017 11:44 PM
Lausten - 10 October 2017 01:12 PM
Adamski - 10 October 2017 12:59 PM

Yes when it comes to unjust illegal wars of aggression.
muhammond Ali had no problem in identifying this

I’m not arguing for war. That Muhammad Ali and many other people took a conscientious stand does not make the reality of how wars have been prosecuted throughout time any different.

I didn’t miss you while you were gone and won’t miss you when you leave again.

Poor old Americas. Victims of their own imperialist wars.

Where are you from again? Australia? Doesn’t matter, it doesn’t make you immune from imperialism or war.

On that note - Australia participated in Vietnam.

https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/event/vietnam

You don’t say and so what?


The good guys??? How about the kids who refused to go (many out of righteous opposition), who fled into exile in Canada or Sweden, or who, like boxer Muhammad Ali lost his right to fight for three years, or the Fort Hood 3 who went to prison, or the professors and journalists who lost their jobs, the protestors beaten by riled up construction workers, Martin Luther King who went public with his opposition in 1967, the priests who raided draft offices and burned their records, Alice Hertz and two other Americans who burned themselves to death in honor of the Buddhist monks who did the same in South Vietnam protesting our puppet regime — these are not worth profiling, all tinged by the same brush, they are the bad guys who disrespected our troops and went violent. What a wonderful authoritarian message that gives to viewers. Don’t protest an evil war or your country’s war crimes.


Where is the focus of these people in the film? Oh that’s right. It doesn’t fit the narrative.

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Posted: 12 October 2017 05:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Adamski - 12 October 2017 05:42 PM

What a wonderful authoritarian message that gives to viewers.

Did you watch it? Did you notice that some of the things you listed were included? Oh sorry, didn’t mean to put a crimp in your narrative.

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