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Does America need the law of the jungle - the second amenemnt to the US Constitution?
Posted: 18 October 2017 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Keep the guns. I am OK with outlawing combat weapons.

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Posted: 18 October 2017 06:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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deros - 18 October 2017 03:48 AM

For a fact, when written the Second Amendment was needed.  Long story short, as written it is no longer needed.  In saying that I am not advocating that no citizen has the right to own a gun, but what kind and why should be limited.  In the least we should tweak it greatly or totally re-wright it.

Precisely! The Second Amendment should be re-written (dumped and replaced with something better). People should be allowed to have guns with serious oversight by the government. Some conservatives talk about the government being too powerful and controlling people’s life. Well, having people’s representative governments with a good deal of reasonable power is how civilized societies work, so that individual morons cannot have/do anything they want.

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Posted: 19 October 2017 08:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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It’s hard to tell what’s conspiracy theory these days, but it does appear that Republicans are getting close to being able to hold a Constitutional convention. The whole thing is long overdue for a re-write, IMHO. I hope there is someone out there thinking about this and getting ahead of it. If we wait for a minority rule government to start the process, we’ll be in trouble.

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Posted: 20 October 2017 12:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 11 October 2017 07:13 PM
LoisL - 10 October 2017 09:51 PM

Why is it that cicilized people on civilized countries don’t seem to feel the need to carry guns for self defense? And why do they so seldom have a need for a gun for self defense?

LL

Americans are 10 times more likely to be killed by guns than people in other developed countries!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/

And that was found before the spectacular firearm homicides in recent years!!

Doesn’t the USA have a serious reason for being ashamed as a nation?

It certainly does and not only because of guns.

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Posted: 20 October 2017 12:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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MikeYohe - 18 October 2017 03:07 PM

Keep the guns. I am OK with outlawing combat weapons.

So you’re all right with 30,000 men, women and children being killed by firearms in the US every year? The vast majority are not killed with combat weapons, but with pistols and rifles, and the vast majority are not using those weapons for any kind of “defense.”

Lois

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Posted: 20 October 2017 12:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Beltane - 10 October 2017 07:15 PM
LoisL - 09 October 2017 09:19 PM
Beltane - 06 October 2017 01:56 PM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 05 October 2017 06:48 PM

So, what do you think about the information and my comments above the questions that I asked?

I disagree the government is unable to do anything. More likely that politicians are wary about loosing support from the public and donors over an issue that controversial.

There has been some word just recently about the possibility of a bump stock ban.

Well THAT should do a lot to lower the rate of firearm deaths.

The point is one change in legislation may lead to more. (Not that I want that). wink

More what? Deaths by firearms? Why is it that other developed countries have a small fraction of the firearm deaths that the US has? Are people in other countries just that much better than Americans—more moral, mor sensible, less intent on criminal behavior?  Canada has less than half the firearm deaths per 100,000 population than the US, and they have similar racial make up of its population and similar economic standards. Why do you suppose the rate is so much different in a neighboring country with a 3000 mile border with the US?  What are the Canadians doing so right that the US is doing so wrong? Are US residents just naturally more stupid, more psychologically unfit or more criminal? Should stupid and/or psychologocally unfit and/or criminal people have such easy access to guns as they have in the US? What’s wrong with this picture? 

Lois

[ Edited: 23 October 2017 05:50 PM by LoisL ]
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Posted: 21 October 2017 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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LoisL - 20 October 2017 12:33 AM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 11 October 2017 07:13 PM
LoisL - 10 October 2017 09:51 PM

Why is it that cicilized people on civilized countries don’t seem to feel the need to carry guns for self defense? And why do they so seldom have a need for a gun for self defense?

LL

Americans are 10 times more likely to be killed by guns than people in other developed countries!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/

And that was found before the spectacular firearm homicides in recent years!!

Doesn’t the USA have a serious reason for being ashamed as a nation?

It certainly does and not only because of guns.

You did use the word civilized so you answered your own question.

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Posted: 21 October 2017 08:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Beltane - 14 October 2017 09:22 AM
LoisL - 13 October 2017 09:01 PM
Beltane - 13 October 2017 01:59 PM
LoisL - 11 October 2017 09:46 PM
Beltane - 11 October 2017 07:43 PM
LoisL - 10 October 2017 09:51 PM

Why is it that civilized people in civilized countries don’t seem to feel the need to carry guns for self defense? And why do they so seldom have a need for a gun for self defense?

LL

Different histories.

No, brain damage among the Americans. It interferes with sensible legislation.

Do you know what caused this brain damage?

Yes, the ignorance of untrammeled capitalism and the Republican party.

Capitalism is why the 2nd amendment exists? Explain how that works.

Capitalism is what has prevented serious gun controll in this country. If it interferes with someone’s profits, it will never pass. Then there is the NRA, a criminal organization if there ever was one. They have bought off Congress for decades. 30,000 deaths in America every year is the price we pay for everyone’s “right” to own, stockpile and use lethal weapons. Do you feel safe in such a society?

[ Edited: 23 October 2017 05:52 PM by LoisL ]
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Posted: 21 October 2017 08:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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deros - 21 October 2017 03:33 PM
LoisL - 20 October 2017 12:33 AM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 11 October 2017 07:13 PM
LoisL - 10 October 2017 09:51 PM

Why is it that cicilized people on civilized countries don’t seem to feel the need to carry guns for self defense? And why do they so seldom have a need for a gun for self defense?

LL

Americans are 10 times more likely to be killed by guns than people in other developed countries!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/

And that was found before the spectacular firearm homicides in recent years!!

Doesn’t the USA have a serious reason for being ashamed as a nation?

It certainly does and not only because of guns.

You did use the word civilized so you answered your own question.


Indeed!

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― George Eliot, Silas Marner[/color]

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Posted: 23 October 2017 12:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Lausten - 19 October 2017 08:08 AM

It’s hard to tell what’s conspiracy theory these days, but it does appear that Republicans are getting close to being able to hold a Constitutional convention. The whole thing is long overdue for a re-write, IMHO. I hope there is someone out there thinking about this and getting ahead of it. If we wait for a minority rule government to start the process, we’ll be in trouble.

Good luck to your humble opinion! But as I wrote earlier, even the most remarkable liberal in Congress, Bernie Sanders, is not where the country should be. The Second Amendment should be essentially scrapped. Gun ownership should not be a right; it should be a privilege that is to be earned and maintained through serious scrutiny of mental health and sense of the responsibility of handing a deadly weapon. The Republican friends of the NRA in Congress are far less likely to do it than the Democrats.

[ Edited: 23 October 2017 02:20 PM by Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain ]
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Posted: 23 October 2017 05:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Advocatus - 06 October 2017 09:04 AM

You’re right; these tragedies are just going to keep repeating.  It’s too to shut the barn door.  Congress is too beholden to the gun lobby to even pass reasonable legislation to regulate gun ownership.  It’s sad to think about, but this kind of thing is just going to keep happening while Congressmen rake in the PAC money.

They’re not only beholden to the gun lobby, they are spinelss cowards. It is apparenly a main qualification to be in Congress or the White House these days. There is no shortage of spineless cowards running for office.

LL

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Posted: 23 October 2017 05:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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deros - 21 October 2017 03:33 PM
LoisL - 20 October 2017 12:33 AM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 11 October 2017 07:13 PM
LoisL - 10 October 2017 09:51 PM

Why is it that cicilized people on civilized countries don’t seem to feel the need to carry guns for self defense? And why do they so seldom have a need for a gun for self defense?

LL

Americans are 10 times more likely to be killed by guns than people in other developed countries!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-u-s-gun-deaths-compare-to-other-countries/

And that was found before the spectacular firearm homicides in recent years!!

Doesn’t the USA have a serious reason for being ashamed as a nation?

It certainly does and not only because of guns.

You did use the word civilized so you answered your own question.

Indeed. That’s why I use it.

Lois

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[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
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Posted: 23 October 2017 11:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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LoisL - 20 October 2017 12:50 AM
Beltane - 10 October 2017 07:15 PM
LoisL - 09 October 2017 09:19 PM
Beltane - 06 October 2017 01:56 PM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 05 October 2017 06:48 PM

So, what do you think about the information and my comments above the questions that I asked?

I disagree the government is unable to do anything. More likely that politicians are wary about loosing support from the public and donors over an issue that controversial.

There has been some word just recently about the possibility of a bump stock ban.

Well THAT should do a lot to lower the rate of firearm deaths.

The point is one change in legislation may lead to more. (Not that I want that). wink

Why is it that other developed countries have a small fraction of the firearm deaths that the US has? Are people in other countries just that much better than Americans—more moral, mor sensible, less intent on criminal behavior?
Canada has less than half the firearm deaths per 100,000 population than the US, and they have similar racial make up of its population and similar economic standards. Why do you suppose the rate is so much different in a neighboring country with a 3000 mile border with the US?  What are the Canadians doing so right that the US is doing so wrong? Are US residents just naturally more stupid, more psychologically unfit or more criminal? Should stupid and/or psychologocally unfit and/or criminal people have such easy access to guns as they have in the US? What’s wrong with this picture?

Lois

Canada is bad comparison.  Demographically and politically, its very different from America, as are nearly all ‘developed nations”.

The fact is most gun related murders occur in poverty stricken urban areas. Mass shootings don’t account for much.

Gun violence is most common in poor urban areas and frequently associated with gang violence, often involving male juveniles or young adult males.[15][16] Although mass shootings have been covered extensively in the media, mass shootings account for a small fraction of gun-related deaths[17] and the frequency of these events steadily declined between 1994 and 2007, rising between 2007 and 2013.

If the urban areas disappeared, the numbers wouldn’t be much different from the rest of the developed world.

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Posted: 24 October 2017 04:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 04 October 2017 06:14 PM

A mentally deranged man can buy guns; and he shoots to kill 26 people, including 20 lovely little children, at an elementary school. And the President of the USA weeps. His administration and the US Congress remain essentially impotent spectators of this kind of horrible tragedies!

One man can buy more than 30 high-powered guns; and he shoots to kill 58 people and injure more than 500 people in an outdoor concert. And the President of the USA is proud to be an American because of the professionalism of the hospital staff that treated the injured and of the victims that showed the bravery to help other fellow victims. But his administration and the US Congress remain essentially impotent spectators of this kind of horrible tragedies!

The tragedies keep repeating!!

Isn’t it overdue for the USA to repeal the second amendment to its Constitution? In civilized human societies, shouldn’t ordinary citizens get protection through laws and law enforces? Should they need private ownership of guns? Should guns be so easily available in this country?

I don’t think you understand the US system, the current US “president” and the republican led US Congress aren’t impotent spectators in this epidemic of violence that over 300 million firearms in civilian hands creates in the US, they are accomplices in this ongoing massacre that is only made possible by hundreds of millions of guns on the streets.

They take huge “donations” from the NRA and the gun industry and then make damn sure that no laws are passed that will impede the introduction of millions of more guns a year onto the streets. This about pure naked capitalism hiding behind the 2nd. Amendment, nothing more.

The entire US political system has been corrupted to the point where it only protects those who are the most ruthless and greedy. The people selling firearms and those who they pay to protect them from any negative repercussions.

So yes the law of the law of the jungle is at work in the US, but not just on the streets. It is also the driving force in the halls of power and business in the US to the highest level.

There is no chance at all that the 2nd. Amendment will be challenged at all as long as there are republicans in power in the US.

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Posted: 24 October 2017 06:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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DougC.V2 - 24 October 2017 04:37 PM
Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain - 04 October 2017 06:14 PM

A mentally deranged man can buy guns; and he shoots to kill 26 people, including 20 lovely little children, at an elementary school. And the President of the USA weeps. His administration and the US Congress remain essentially impotent spectators of this kind of horrible tragedies!

One man can buy more than 30 high-powered guns; and he shoots to kill 58 people and injure more than 500 people in an outdoor concert. And the President of the USA is proud to be an American because of the professionalism of the hospital staff that treated the injured and of the victims that showed the bravery to help other fellow victims. But his administration and the US Congress remain essentially impotent spectators of this kind of horrible tragedies!

The tragedies keep repeating!!

Isn’t it overdue for the USA to repeal the second amendment to its Constitution? In civilized human societies, shouldn’t ordinary citizens get protection through laws and law enforces? Should they need private ownership of guns? Should guns be so easily available in this country?

I don’t think you understand the US system, the current US “president” and the republican led US Congress aren’t impotent spectators in this epidemic of violence that over 300 million firearms in civilian hands creates in the US, they are accomplices in this ongoing massacre that is only made possible by hundreds of millions of guns on the streets.

They take huge “donations” from the NRA and the gun industry and then make damn sure that no laws are passed that will impede the introduction of millions of more guns a year onto the streets. This about pure naked capitalism hiding behind the 2nd. Amendment, nothing more.

The entire US political system has been corrupted to the point where it only protects those who are the most ruthless and greedy. The people selling firearms and those who they pay to protect them from any negative repercussions.

So yes the law of the law of the jungle is at work in the US, but not just on the streets. It is also the driving force in the halls of power and business in the US to the highest level.

There is no chance at all that the 2nd. Amendment will be challenged at all as long as there are republicans in power in the US.

You are right, “impotent spectators” is not the appropriate description of the corrupt gang that runs this country. I stand corrected. (I suppose I was thinking of Barack Obama’s weeping after Sandy Hook when I used that mild and inappropriate phrase). I am pleased that you also feel that the Second Amendment is a law of the jungle. It is indeed too sad that there is no chance for that amendment to be scrapped any time soon. As I noted earlier, even the Democrats do not talk about scrapping the Second Amendment. I think it is very important for organizations like the Center for Inquiry to talk about this shame of the USA.

[ Edited: 25 October 2017 06:03 AM by Sukhamaya (Sam) Bain ]
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