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In regards to Skepticism
Posted: 14 November 2017 06:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
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because I want to give a complete picture of the issue so that there are no mistakes or misunderstandings. That and I’m not good at summarizing points.

Also I don’t think that’s the exact quote

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Posted: 14 November 2017 06:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
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Titanomachina - 14 November 2017 06:47 PM

because I want to give a complete picture of the issue so that there are no mistakes or misunderstandings. That and I’m not good at summarizing points.

Also I don’t think that’s the exact quote

Well, I think we’re plenty summarized and the picture is plenty complete.

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Posted: 14 November 2017 11:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
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Are you sure?

But what about the stuff they said like how objects change based on the distance and point of view, or the way different objects affect people differntlyV

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Posted: 15 November 2017 05:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
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Titanomachina - 14 November 2017 11:15 PM

Are you sure?

But what about the stuff they said like how objects change based on the distance and point of view, or the way different objects affect people differntlyV

What about that stuff?

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Posted: 15 November 2017 08:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
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Titanomachina - 14 November 2017 11:15 PM

Are you sure?

But what about the stuff they said like how objects change based on the distance and point of view, or the way different objects affect people differntlyV

This will explain the entire question. Watch it, please do. https://www.ted.com/talks/anil_seth_how_your_brain_hallucinates_your_conscious_reality

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Posted: 15 November 2017 10:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
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Went ahead and risked having it be documented that I’m watching videos at work. It was worth it.

Combining this with something I just read in Dennet’s “Breaking the Spell”, and some personal experience: Dennet says it is unusual for people to be curious and more common for them to follow the traditions and memes. That doesn’t make curious people better. If we were all breaking traditions constantly, we’d probably be more like packs of wolves than modern thinking humans. People who stick to tradition think they are better because of it, so it just becomes something to fight about.

Almost everyone experiences this realization that the world is not what they think it is. We are kept in a bubble as children, then shown the adult world. In the indigenous world, they had rites of passage so you knew you were being shown something. Whether or not you understood it, well. In the modern world, you turn 18 and hopefully figure it out.

This leads to things like people seeing things like a tower collapsing as if it was a controlled demolition. Even though they saw an airplane hit it, they have no context for that, so they need to fill in what they saw with some other information. And they do. And there are other people who agree with them, so it becomes reality. And since it’s their brain filling it in, they trust that more than anything else, eventually becoming impervious to any other facts or evidence or logic.

Titanomachina searches the internet for people who should probably not be allowed to publish anything and for philosophies that have been built upon, fixed, improved upon for centuries, but he throws all that information out and tries to make sense of it on his own. He knows “reality is a hallucination”, but doesn’t have context to work through what that means, so he tries to reconcile it with traditions. Like Averroes, Thomas Aquinas or Tielhard de Chardin, he fails.

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Posted: 15 November 2017 12:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
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Write4U - 15 November 2017 08:10 AM
Titanomachina - 14 November 2017 11:15 PM

Are you sure?

But what about the stuff they said like how objects change based on the distance and point of view, or the way different objects affect people differntlyV

This will explain the entire question. Watch it, please do. https://www.ted.com/talks/anil_seth_how_your_brain_hallucinates_your_conscious_reality

I know about that, and I suspect they did too. So how can you not adopt a Pyrrhonist point of view then? Like they say we can’t trust our eyes because an object changes based on your view point. Or how sometimes things change in relation to other things.

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Posted: 15 November 2017 02:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
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Titanomachina - 15 November 2017 12:56 PM
Write4U - 15 November 2017 08:10 AM
Titanomachina - 14 November 2017 11:15 PM

Are you sure?

But what about the stuff they said like how objects change based on the distance and point of view, or the way different objects affect people differntlyV

This will explain the entire question. Watch it, please do. https://www.ted.com/talks/anil_seth_how_your_brain_hallucinates_your_conscious_reality

I know about that, and I suspect they did too. So how can you not adopt a Pyrrhonist point of view then? Like they say we can’t trust our eyes because an object changes based on your view point. Or how sometimes things change in relation to other things.

You missed the part about shared reality. We don’t have to trust our own eyes, we have over 6 billion other sets of eyes. Watch it again.

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Posted: 15 November 2017 04:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
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Lausten - 15 November 2017 02:56 PM
Titanomachina - 15 November 2017 12:56 PM
Write4U - 15 November 2017 08:10 AM
Titanomachina - 14 November 2017 11:15 PM

Are you sure?

But what about the stuff they said like how objects change based on the distance and point of view, or the way different objects affect people differntlyV

This will explain the entire question. Watch it, please do. https://www.ted.com/talks/anil_seth_how_your_brain_hallucinates_your_conscious_reality

I know about that, and I suspect they did too. So how can you not adopt a Pyrrhonist point of view then? Like they say we can’t trust our eyes because an object changes based on your view point. Or how sometimes things change in relation to other things.

You missed the part about shared reality. We don’t have to trust our own eyes, we have over 6 billion other sets of eyes. Watch it again.

When people’s best guess of what we see all agree, that’s when we cal it reality. And when things seem to change from the perspective of the observer, we call that Relativity.

When we look at a wall from a 90 degree angle it is 20 feet long. When I look at it from a 0 degree angle it looks 6 inches long.
Nothing has physically changed, only the point of observation. Nothing mysterious about it.

[ Edited: 15 November 2017 04:29 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 16 November 2017 01:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]
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Lausten - 15 November 2017 02:56 PM
Titanomachina - 15 November 2017 12:56 PM
Write4U - 15 November 2017 08:10 AM
Titanomachina - 14 November 2017 11:15 PM

Are you sure?

But what about the stuff they said like how objects change based on the distance and point of view, or the way different objects affect people differntlyV

This will explain the entire question. Watch it, please do. https://www.ted.com/talks/anil_seth_how_your_brain_hallucinates_your_conscious_reality

I know about that, and I suspect they did too. So how can you not adopt a Pyrrhonist point of view then? Like they say we can’t trust our eyes because an object changes based on your view point. Or how sometimes things change in relation to other things.

You missed the part about shared reality. We don’t have to trust our own eyes, we have over 6 billion other sets of eyes. Watch it again.

Something just struck me. Our shared reality is also a product of a collective hive mind, similar to any hive mind, but of course at a much deeper, even abstract level.
Seems to me that is also the foundation of scientific inquiry, especially if a new idea is proposed.  In science we analyze the proposition, test if consistent results can be achieved, or if it can be falsified, and finally come to a consensus if the proposition is true or not.

I saw a NOVA presentation of an experiment with bees.  A bee hive was placed in the middle of an island with a good food source and at each end of the island other food sources were placed. But one of the locations also provided a better general environment to establish a hive than the other.

When it was time to swarm, due to overcrowding of the center hive, scouts were sent out to seek a favorable spot for establishing a new hive.

When the scouts came back, both had information of food rich locations and each scout did their famous dance to indicate location and abundance.  This dance lasted for a considerable length of time and apparently one of the scouts was able to convince the rest of the hive of the benefits of her discovered source and sure enough, by consensus the part of the hive which was about to swarm picked the most favorable spot and the entire swarm set straight out to that spot.

I was astounded by the ability of simple insects to make such a subtle decision, based on the information provided by the scouts.  If we think about Anil Seth’s lecture of how the brain makes best guesses based on conflicting information, it would seem that even at such a fundamental level there exists a form of decision making based on processing available information.

But if we consider that lemurs and macaque monkeys have shown that by some innate counting mechanism they can tell the difference between more or less of something as well as humans, it shows that this ability occurs at a very fundamental evolutionary level. How do animals acquire the ability to use sonar, or colors, or scents or even the earth’s magnetic fields to navigate.

I find this truly remarkable and is one of the reasons why I am so interested in the mirror neural system of any animal with even rudimentary brains, which allows them to make choices, based on experience and observation.

This link is just one example of the incredible evolution of the mirror function of the cuttlefish, which evolved from a sea slug.

[ Edited: 16 November 2017 01:28 AM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 16 November 2017 01:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]
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This is the link I referred to above; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-cxg8mF_Lw

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Posted: 16 November 2017 02:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]
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I didn’t know that about the bees. That’s kind of interesting, but i suspected they were pretty smart on at least some kind of level.

But what also gets me about skepticism or at least this brand is their stance on opinions. Like how they say that labeling things as bad makes then appear worse than they are and that labeling things good makes us crave them and causes suffering.

I guess I’m just concerned that those who follow this find peace according to it and that if I do anything else I am doing something wrong.

I browsed the web and saw a few responses people had about Pyrrhonism:

You may find peace by stripping away the absolutes that block your real ability to question and move on.

Skepticism allows a humility to question everything including yourself in a fresh and fluid way.
A way that doesn’t have an answer and doesn’t need one.

Getting to the star’s is amazing.
Understanding awareness is impossible.

found peace through Pyrrhonism. Thanks to the systematical dismantling of delusion I was able to restore myself to an unconditioned state from which a true personality could arise.

 

It’s only confusing because you keep asking the questions.
Its only depressing because you thought you had the answers.

 


Teasing at happenings trying to control.
Something objective to fulfil the soul.
Forgetting perhaps why they began.
Is spinning in nothing spinning at all.

Tangling the tales that comfort and sedate.
Something so human something innate.
Missing through force wider perspective.
Why do so many follow what so few create.

Reforming with a self realised lack of validity.
Understanding nothing understanding humility.
Seeing the things that don’t exist.
I don’t believe in objectivity.

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Posted: 16 November 2017 02:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]
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And one more:

Knowing that you cannot is an oxymoron.
Thinking that you know is worse.

To attain the state that he was talking about means perpetual meditation….a constant flux.
Imo not cunducive with someone who posts on shroomery/has real world needs.

Perhaps like with most philosophy and especially the pre you should take what you can while understanding that many philosophers since have moved on.

Thr base understanding that most have taken from this school is that to be sure is intellectually fallible not to think.

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Posted: 16 November 2017 05:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]
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Titanomachina - 16 November 2017 02:38 PM

Perhaps like with most philosophy and especially the pre you should take what you can while understanding that many philosophers since have moved on.

 

Perhaps

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Posted: 16 November 2017 10:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]
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found peace through Pyrrhonism. Thanks to the systematical dismantling of delusion I was able to restore myself to an unconditioned state from which a true personality could arise.

But what about this?

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