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Texas church shooting
Posted: 05 November 2017 07:34 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I have nothing but compassion for the people affected by this atrocity, but I couldn’t help hearing how hollow it rang when everybody rushed to call for prayers, for God to comfort and be with the families of the victims.  I wouldn’t begrudge anyone a belief structure that helps them to get through a thing like this, but I would think at least SOMEONE would have felt a twinge of irony when calling for their god to finally take an interest in the situation.

Anyway, enough of my snottiness.  Does anyone know of a victim fund or anything to which a devout heathen could donate?

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I believe that the goal of a truly moral life should be to relieve suffering and promote happiness among living beings in the real world.  By contrast, I believe that much of religious doctrine . . . glorifies suffering and condemns happiness as sin, in favor of some abstract reward in a non-existent afterlife.

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Posted: 06 November 2017 12:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Neighborhood Heathen - 05 November 2017 07:34 PM

I have nothing but compassion for the people affected by this atrocity, but I couldn’t help hearing how hollow it rang when everybody rushed to call for prayers, for God to comfort and be with the families of the victims.  I wouldn’t begrudge anyone a belief structure that helps them to get through a thing like this, but I would think at least SOMEONE would have felt a twinge of irony when calling for their god to finally take an interest in the situation.

Anyway, enough of my snottiness.  Does anyone know of a victim fund or anything to which a devout heathen could donate?

There are funds to help victims, some of them might be connected to the church. You don’t have to be a member or a believer to donate. But if you really want to help on a broader scale, donate to a group that is working for gun control. That would be more helpful than anything and they don’t care if you’re an atheist.

https://blog.greatnonprofits.org/9-organizations-making-progress-towards-gun-control/

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[color=red“Nothing is so good as it seems beforehand.”
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Posted: 06 November 2017 07:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Great idea.

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I believe that the goal of a truly moral life should be to relieve suffering and promote happiness among living beings in the real world.  By contrast, I believe that much of religious doctrine . . . glorifies suffering and condemns happiness as sin, in favor of some abstract reward in a non-existent afterlife.

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Posted: 06 November 2017 08:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Just about every argument against gun control falls apart with this shooting. It was in a small town, the people were actually praying at the time, they can’t be accused of being godless, the guy was not motivated by some religion that Americas are unfamiliar with, race was not an issue, he was not stopped by someone else with a gun, the list goes on.

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Posted: 06 November 2017 03:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Guy was a typical angry atheist, so that is a possible motive:

Friends on Facebook said that in recent years, Mr. Kelley had become vocally anti-Christian, to the point where many stopped communicating with him. His Facebook page, which has been deleted, listed that he liked a number of atheist groups.

“He was always talking about how people who believe in God were stupid and trying to preach his atheism,” one of his Facebook friends, Nina Rosa Nava, posted on the site, saying she unfriended him because of it.

Hopefully it was not a factor.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/devin-patrick-kelley-texas.html

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Posted: 06 November 2017 10:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Beltane - 06 November 2017 03:32 PM

Guy was a typical angry atheist, so that is a possible motive:

Friends on Facebook said that in recent years, Mr. Kelley had become vocally anti-Christian, to the point where many stopped communicating with him. His Facebook page, which has been deleted, listed that he liked a number of atheist groups.

“He was always talking about how people who believe in God were stupid and trying to preach his atheism,” one of his Facebook friends, Nina Rosa Nava, posted on the site, saying she unfriended him because of it.

Hopefully it was not a factor.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/devin-patrick-kelley-texas.html

He said he was an atheist but a lot of people say that and they are not atheists. He was probably like a lot of people, he was angry at his god—perhaps for allowing him to be convicted of crimes. So he calls himself an atheist, hoping all along that god will take pity on him and bring him back to the fold. I supect he was a dyed-in-the wool Christian nutcase. Not at all unusual. He wouldn’t have wanted his mass killing to be blamed on a Christian, so he pretended to be an atheist without knowing what an atheist is. An atheist is not someone who is mad at god.

Lois

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Posted: 07 November 2017 04:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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LoisL - 06 November 2017 10:13 PM
Beltane - 06 November 2017 03:32 PM

Guy was a typical angry atheist, so that is a possible motive:

Friends on Facebook said that in recent years, Mr. Kelley had become vocally anti-Christian, to the point where many stopped communicating with him. His Facebook page, which has been deleted, listed that he liked a number of atheist groups.

“He was always talking about how people who believe in God were stupid and trying to preach his atheism,” one of his Facebook friends, Nina Rosa Nava, posted on the site, saying she unfriended him because of it.

Hopefully it was not a factor.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/06/us/devin-patrick-kelley-texas.html

He said he was an atheist but a lot of people say that and they are not atheists. He was probably like a lot of people, he was angry at his god—perhaps for allowing him to be convicted of crimes. So he calls himself an atheist, hoping all along that god will take pity on him and bring him back to the fold. I supect he was a dyed-in-the wool Christian nutcase. Not at all unusual. He wouldn’t have wanted his mass killing to be blamed on a Christian, so he pretended to be an atheist without knowing what an atheist is. An atheist is not someone who is mad at god.

Lois

Sounds like a “just-so story”.

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Posted: 07 November 2017 05:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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I don’t buy that religion had anything to do with it, except for location and social circles.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/link-between-domestic-violence-mass-killings/

Also, statistics speak louder than politicians - or, at least we wish they did:

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/texas-church-shooting/mass-public-shootings-are-getting-deadlier-experts-say-n818176

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Posted: 07 November 2017 05:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Atheism isnt a religion by definition.

And assault rifle isnt designed for self-defense, by definition.

And to people in Europe, USA laws regarding guns sounds really weird and crazy. (mainly because guns, which can be concealed are not that dangerous - either range, accurancy or force - when compared to rifles which cannot.)

[ Edited: 07 November 2017 05:21 PM by Offler ]
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Posted: 07 November 2017 06:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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TromboneAndrew - 07 November 2017 05:08 PM

I don’t buy that religion had anything to do with it, except for location and social circles.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/link-between-domestic-violence-mass-killings/

Also, statistics speak louder than politicians - or, at least we wish they did:

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/texas-church-shooting/mass-public-shootings-are-getting-deadlier-experts-say-n818176

I think the chance of atheism being a major factor here is rather small, but still on the table. If for no other reason, selecting a church as a massacre site is unusual, since there’s countless other public venues available if your goal is simply to kill a lot.

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Posted: 07 November 2017 11:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Beltane - 07 November 2017 06:20 PM
TromboneAndrew - 07 November 2017 05:08 PM

I don’t buy that religion had anything to do with it, except for location and social circles.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/link-between-domestic-violence-mass-killings/

Also, statistics speak louder than politicians - or, at least we wish they did:

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/texas-church-shooting/mass-public-shootings-are-getting-deadlier-experts-say-n818176

I think the chance of atheism being a major factor here is rather small, but still on the table. If for no other reason, selecting a church as a massacre site is unusual, since there’s countless other public venues available if your goal is simply to kill a lot.


But churches have been the venue of more than a few mass killings. Churches and schools. Places where innocent people gather and where there are likely to be children. There is no way to figure out what a disturbed person is thinking. But in the US we place guns in their hands. It seldom happens in civilized countries where most people have more sense than a slug.

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Posted: 08 November 2017 07:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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LoisL - 07 November 2017 11:27 PM

It seldom happens in civilized countries where most people have more sense than a slug.

Ants,
slugs never learned to organize.  cheese

hmmm

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Posted: 08 November 2017 07:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Beltane - 07 November 2017 06:20 PM

I think the chance of atheism being a major factor here is rather small, but still on the table. If for no other reason, selecting a church as a massacre site is unusual, since there’s countless other public venues available if your goal is simply to kill a lot.

I gather that it was a domestic problem.  He was trying to strike back at his wife or at her wife’s family, or something like that.  If he’d had a grudge against religion itself, it would have made much more sense to hit one of those mega-churches they have in Texas.  On the other hand, some evidence suggests that he hoped to get away with it.  i.e., he wasn’t in the mood for suicide.

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Posted: 08 November 2017 10:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I would like some politician to take the 2nd amendment completely seriously BUT change the constitution so that it means exactly what the founders meant - muskets! Anyone should be allowed to arm themselves with muskets.

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Posted: 08 November 2017 01:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Advocatus - 08 November 2017 07:43 AM
Beltane - 07 November 2017 06:20 PM

I think the chance of atheism being a major factor here is rather small, but still on the table. If for no other reason, selecting a church as a massacre site is unusual, since there’s countless other public venues available if your goal is simply to kill a lot.

I gather that it was a domestic problem.  He was trying to strike back at his wife or at her wife’s family, or something like that.  If he’d had a grudge against religion itself, it would have made much more sense to hit one of those mega-churches they have in Texas.  On the other hand, some evidence suggests that he hoped to get away with it.  i.e., he wasn’t in the mood for suicide.

Maybe, but if it was primarily a domestic problem he wouldn’t have killed 26 people unconnected to the situation. At this early date I would posit that he was consumed by uncontrollable rage at everything.

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Posted: 08 November 2017 02:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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CuthbertJ - 08 November 2017 10:49 AM

I would like some politician to take the 2nd amendment completely seriously BUT change the constitution so that it means exactly what the founders meant - muskets! Anyone should be allowed to arm themselves with muskets.

And not just that, they should be required to belong to and train with a fully organized official militia that is responsible for their actions. If any member of a militia harms anyone with the weapons they are allowed under the 2nd. Amendment the entire organization is held responsible. The militia officers would be liable to both civil and criminal action in response to the deaths of anyone by their personnel.

The intent of the 2nd. Amendment was to provide for the security of the nation from outside forces, not turn all of America in a nut job vigilante Hogan’s Alley.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/second_amendment

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

It was never intended to allow the lunatic fringe to rule in America which is what is going on now. Both on the streets with gun violence out of control and in government where legislators are unwilling to take on the powerful gun lobby.

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