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I would like to talk about the god thingy
Posted: 11 November 2017 03:55 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Can we do that?

Now for starters I am a scholar so I can discuss this topic as it fascinates me.

To kick the discussion off, the Jewish god has many distinct eras:

The Pre Exile era,

The Exile Era

The Persian Era

The Hellenistic Era

The Roman Era

The Jewish god or Hebrew god changed dramatically in each and every one of these time periods.

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Posted: 11 November 2017 04:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Interesting question: In which era did Judaism become monotheistic?

Oh, and what is your academic field, just out of curiosity?

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I believe that the goal of a truly moral life should be to relieve suffering and promote happiness among living beings in the real world.  By contrast, I believe that much of religious doctrine . . . glorifies suffering and condemns happiness as sin, in favor of some abstract reward in a non-existent afterlife.

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Posted: 11 November 2017 04:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Neighborhood Heathen - 11 November 2017 04:40 PM

Interesting question: In which era did Judaism become monotheistic?

Oh, and what is your academic field, just out of curiosity?

Statues of Asherah (gods wife) can be found by the thousands in domestic ruins right up to the Babylonian Exile when the Jews entered the Persian Period.

The Persian Zoroastrians had a warm relationship with the Jews for 500 years and influenced them with Zoroastrianism and changed the Jewish alphabet and religion for all time.

The Persians gave Monotheism to the Jews in the Persian Period.

I am an author and an atheist and close to Richard Dawkins

[ Edited: 11 November 2017 05:22 PM by Boris ]
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Posted: 13 November 2017 03:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Boris - 11 November 2017 04:46 PM
Neighborhood Heathen - 11 November 2017 04:40 PM

Interesting question: In which era did Judaism become monotheistic?

Oh, and what is your academic field, just out of curiosity?

Statues of Asherah (gods wife) can be found by the thousands in domestic ruins right up to the Babylonian Exile when the Jews entered the Persian Period.

The Persian Zoroastrians had a warm relationship with the Jews for 500 years and influenced them with Zoroastrianism and changed the Jewish alphabet and religion for all time.

The Persians gave Monotheism to the Jews in the Persian Period.

I am an author and an atheist and close to Richard Dawkins

It’s a pleasure! wow. Wasn’t Asherah an idol that the Canaanites worshipped? And apparently the Jews ended up burning incense to according to Jeremiah 44? they even gave her the title of “Queen of heaven”, the same title Catholics assigned to Mary, mother of Jesus (Probably stole it from them)?

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Posted: 14 November 2017 04:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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The Hebrews were Canaanites

The Jews came back from Babylon’‘'Asherah was the wife of El (Ale as in Israel EL)

With Asheral El has 70 children - the Elohim

That all changed with Zoroastrianism after Cyrus

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Posted: 14 November 2017 09:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Your title fooled me. I thought this thread was about god, my mistake, I see its about religion.

see ya

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Posted: 14 November 2017 09:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 14 November 2017 09:18 AM

Your title fooled me. I thought this thread was about god, my mistake, I see its about religion.

see ya

Good point. I remember starting threads like this when I first on forums. I probably did it at parties in college too. Just walk up to people and say, “hey, I wanna talk about….” They’d look at me, sip their beers, then find a reason to walk away slowly.

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Posted: 14 November 2017 03:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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It is about god - he changed its his history

He started off as El with a wife Asherah and 70 children - a pantheon of gods

But as soon as the Persians took Babylon the Zoroastrians edjamaked the Jews and El became YHWH who is one and the same with the Zoroastrian god Ahura Mazda

Yes the car was named after the Zoroastrian god.

So the Jewish Christian Muslim god of today changed dramatically over the centuries and is now the Zoroastrian god with no wife and no children

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Posted: 14 November 2017 05:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Boris - 14 November 2017 04:15 AM

The Hebrews were Canaanites

Not according to the bible, they are not. They ended up mixing with them through marriage but they were not blood Canaanites. They wouldn’t be Hebrews otherwise. There was one point where they came to realize that what they did was not a good thing, so they proceeded to expel the Canaanites women they married as well as the half Canaanite children these women conceived with them.

The Jews came back from Babylon’‘'Asherah was the wife of El (Ale as in Israel EL)

With Asheral El has 70 children - the Elohim

I am reading the gnostic bible by Willis Barnstone and Marvin Myer, And some of the books (Nag Hammadi library) cover that.
Can I please ask you a question, how did they come to know that such conceptions took place? And Elohim, Yahweh, etc. are just deities, they are not the big honchos as the bible highlights.
I am just a student who is trying to sort some stuff out. So I am not making any claims here, just trying to find stuff out.

THANKS.

[ Edited: 14 November 2017 05:34 PM by InBetween ]
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Posted: 15 November 2017 12:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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The discoveries of Ugarit have revealed all this

The Canaanites and the Hebrews were one and the same.

The Bible is spin - propaganda - with very little actual truth in it and now real archaeology is revealing that

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Posted: 15 November 2017 09:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Hello Boris. Sounds like you know a lot about religion. It is one of my hobbies. This last year I have been able to do a little research on Zoroastrianism. And that has change my thinking as how the people of the time review religion. Right now, I am looking at the six-finger data and hypothesis.
 
The Canaan people adapted many of the Egyptian religious ideas.  The Zoroastrian sky burials were used in the Canaan area, but it seems to be before the Jewish ideas and methods came about. Once I tried to understand the OT. After months and months of breaking down the bible to its root meaning. I was only able to do a few pages in Genesis. I think if memory severs me correctly, I had five different gods in just the first few pages. And some of the gods were being worshiped not that long ago. Many of the churches of those gods are still standing. At that point I realized I needed to start at the beginning in pre-history religion. I have been working my way forward in history.

News yesterday had a story of how scientists are using the clay tablets to map the area and help the historians find lost cities. They are using the trade data on shipping and other costs to estimate the distance between towns.

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Posted: 15 November 2017 09:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Of course God has changed over the ages, just like any good story told and told again with small improvisations by the story teller.

It all comes down to a single concept, which is purely mathematical in reality.

IMO, David Bohm in his “Wholeness and the Implicate order” had it right when he proposed that universal Potentials are the enfolded probabilities of the properties of spacetime itself, starting with the unfolding (expression of elementary particles which combined to form the stable atoms, as found in the Table of Elements we are so familiar with, the rest is an evolutionary process according to the enfolded potentials becoming expressed (unfolded) in reality.  (Start viewing at 25:10)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlAQLgTwJ_A

In fact, Renate Loll, et al propose that the spacetime fabtic itself unfolds by a geometric based Causal Dynamical Triangulatio, (CDT). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causal_dynamical_triangulation

IOW the theist"s Intentional creative God = atheist’s unfolding of Universal Potentials via a mathematical chemical process..

I am using the word Potential in the most general sense of; “That which may become Reality”.

Which IMO, means, “while not all potential becomes immediately expressed in reality, all reality was, is, and will be preceded by Potential”.

In the end it all works in accordance to the mathematical Laws of Nature, See Tegmark’s “the Great math mystery”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOtAFiI39_I&t=615s

[ Edited: 15 November 2017 10:02 AM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 15 November 2017 11:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Boris - 14 November 2017 03:01 PM

It is about god - he changed its his history

He started off as El with a wife Asherah and 70 children - a pantheon of gods

But as soon as the Persians took Babylon the Zoroastrians edjamaked the Jews and El became YHWH who is one and the same with the Zoroastrian god Ahura Mazda

Yes the car was named after the Zoroastrian god.

So the Jewish Christian Muslim god of today changed dramatically over the centuries and is now the Zoroastrian god with no wife and no children

There is no god, so it’s not about god. You’re talking about the history of a concept. It’s an important distinction. For example when people ask, Do you believe in God? They usually mean: There’s a god, it’s a he, we all agree it exists so we capitalize his name as God, and are you one of us who agrees in His existence. Most people respond, no i don’t believe in your (existing) god. The right response though is, define what you mean by god, without reference to any literature that was supposedly inspired or literally written by it.

But nitpicky discussions about the history of this or that relatively silly concept are pretty boring. Kinda like, did Harry Potter spell his pet’s name with one or two t’s.

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Posted: 15 November 2017 11:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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How cute. Mike has a friend. Go play you two.

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Posted: 15 November 2017 03:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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The reality is the Jews Christians Muslims etc all worship the Zoroastrian god thingy and are in reality Zoroastrians

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Posted: 15 November 2017 03:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Boris - 15 November 2017 03:04 PM

The reality is the Jews Christians Muslims etc all worship the Zoroastrian god thingy and are in reality Zoroastrians

I’m not sure you are correctly using the word “reality” there.

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