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I would like to talk about the god thingy
Posted: 11 January 2018 11:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 226 ]
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MikeYohe - 11 January 2018 11:00 AM

Where I am going with this? The castes systems have created footprints in history. For example, the Jewish castes Cohanim, Leviim, and Israelites Caste system is similar to the Hindus caste system. The Catholic church which says all Christians are the same still used the Christian Caste System in India. These societies can change based upon geographically locations. When you look at the overall picture of how the caste system works in India. If Buddha does not use a caste, then it is most likely not from India. Lausten point out that Buddha came from an upper caste. Therefore, if Buddha created the system he would have used the caste system. He may have gotten into trouble trying to teach outside of his caste. I think he would have had better luck importing a system than trying to create one in India.

The caste system started some 1,000 years before Buddhism. Why do you ignore facts that can be easily looked up?

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Posted: 11 January 2018 09:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 227 ]
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Lausten - 11 January 2018 11:46 AM
MikeYohe - 11 January 2018 11:00 AM

Where I am going with this? The castes systems have created footprints in history. For example, the Jewish castes Cohanim, Leviim, and Israelites Caste system is similar to the Hindus caste system. The Catholic church which says all Christians are the same still used the Christian Caste System in India. These societies can change based upon geographically locations. When you look at the overall picture of how the caste system works in India. If Buddha does not use a caste, then it is most likely not from India. Lausten point out that Buddha came from an upper caste. Therefore, if Buddha created the system he would have used the caste system. He may have gotten into trouble trying to teach outside of his caste. I think he would have had better luck importing a system than trying to create one in India.

The caste system started some 1,000 years before Buddhism. Why do you ignore facts that can be easily looked up?


The caste system started in pre-history. So, it was more than 10,000 years before Buddhism. As stated in post #218 the Buddha saying were also used in Krishna and Lao Tzu. What the puzzle is starting to show is that the caste system most likely help mankind develop knowledge and technology. And the caste help keep knowledge evolving as it was ping ponging from East to West do to plagues, natural disasters and conflicts. 
   
Why the caste system is important to understanding religion. The caste help advance knowledge. A person born into a profession kept that profession alive and advancing over time. It is most likely the Jewish religion would not be around today if it was not for the Jewish caste system. Going back to the beginning of history you have Egypt and India. Both with cast systems. India with the gods of knowledge and Egypt with everything created by the word or (knowledge). A common factor is that early successful realms used a caste system. 
 
The Buddha sayings in the bible are mostly examples. And if they are found in many religions, then it shows the saying were good saying and used over long periods of time. What Boris is saying is that Buddha text came from the Greek area. Where the Greek got the sayings? Most likely they came to the Greeks from the East and then after a couple of plagues the people who brought them were no longer around. It is believed that some of the plagues wiped out up to half the population. And plagues like leprosy only wipe out the people from the East.
 
What Boris is saying is that Buddha started in the Greek area. This is interesting because the same every old quotes used in the bible were used in the Buddha texts. This would mean that the text from the East got Hellenized over time and all signs of text relating to the caste system were not needed in the Greek area. Then the Hellenized text is the text that Buddha used in India. And that may be the reason for no caste in the Buddha religion in India. As we know it is more than just the text in the bible that came from earlier time periods. Just about everything in the bible came from the older religions.

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Posted: 12 January 2018 08:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 228 ]
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Aw, don’t be myopic. Buddhism had spread into the far east before Alexander made his entrace in the story.

As to the cast esystem, it was very much in vogue during Buddha’s time. He was a prince born in privilige and seclusion from the world below.
Being curious, he disguised himself as a commoner and listened and later became a preacher. His greatest desire was to find out why some people suffer, while others seem happy, regardless of circumstances, IOW, the meaning of suffering.

To that purpose he became an ascetic, denying himself every thing but little food and water. After awhile of abusing and endangering his own life system he became ill and came to the conclusion that joy and pain are necesary opposites, and one must accept (and eventualy ignore) these emotions in order to find enlightenment. Leading a controlled balanced life.

This was later adorned with symbolic representations and the religion/philosophy spread East ward long before Alexander and his keen interest in Buddhism (while believing and obeying the Greek Gods). A long stretch for a quick spread of Buddhism (in any form). More than likely, it spread from vilage to village. THE REASON IS THAT IT IS A SCIENTIFICALLY SECULAR TRUTH.

This is the condensed story of the origins of Buddhism, by any other name.

[ Edited: 12 January 2018 08:14 AM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 12 January 2018 11:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 229 ]
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Mankind has laws going back into pre-history. Before there were laws there were quotes like the Buddha quotes. It seems if the quote was agreed upon by enough people then it had a chance of becoming a law. Items like murder, marriage, etc…  This system worked easily in the caste system but not so well in the religious systems of the West. As the religion was building in the West without the caste system we see commandments and the laws of god come into play. The point trying to make here is that people would follow knowledgeable text more than a belief in god. There are over fifty known gods that were born the same date as Jesus from a virgin mother, and had twelve disciples. It does not seem like that is really what the people wanted. The question is, the quotes made the NT and Jesus’s writing did not. To fix the problem take the quotes accredited them to Jesus and bingo you have something the people like.

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Posted: 12 January 2018 11:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 230 ]
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Write4U - 12 January 2018 08:04 AM

Aw, don’t be myopic. Buddhism had spread into the far east before Alexander made his entrace in the story.

As to the cast esystem, it was very much in vogue during Buddha’s time. He was a prince born in privilige and seclusion from the world below.
Being curious, he disguised himself as a commoner and listened and later became a preacher. His greatest desire was to find out why some people suffer, while others seem happy, regardless of circumstances, IOW, the meaning of suffering.

To that purpose he became an ascetic, denying himself every thing but little food and water. After awhile of abusing and endangering his own life system he became ill and came to the conclusion that joy and pain are necesary opposites, and one must accept (and eventualy ignore) these emotions in order to find enlightenment. Leading a controlled balanced life.

This was later adorned with symbolic representations and the religion/philosophy spread East ward long before Alexander and his keen interest in Buddhism (while believing and obeying the Greek Gods). A long stretch for a quick spread of Buddhism (in any form). More than likely, it spread from vilage to village. THE REASON IS THAT IT IS A SCIENTIFICALLY SECULAR TRUTH.

This is the condensed story of the origins of Buddhism, by any other name.

Maybe, but I bet if he was a prince he had a party every night and a harem of women. Like the pharaohs of Egypt, lived one life but the people were told he lived a different type of lifestyle.  I think of the quotes like a song. How many songs of love has there been? All saying the same thing. But some song connects with the people better than others. As time evolves, so to do our songs. Same meaning, but needing updating over time.

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Posted: 12 January 2018 03:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 231 ]
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Buddhism was dying out and the Greeks only became interested after Alexander died and we see the Greek statues of the Buddha

look at this statue - c 180 BCE

http://balkhandshambhala.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/gandharan-bodhisattva.html

These were only done by Greeks in the colonies Alexander set up and some of which remained

The Greeks and only the Greeks got the original religion and added to it greatly and spread it to the rest of the Far East whereas it was only in theGreco-Bactrian Kingdom which was Greek

The Greeks then spread the religion

“In order to propagate the Buddhist faith, Ashoka explains he sent emissaries to the Hellenistic kings as far as the Mediterranean, and to people throughout India, claiming they were all converted to the Dharma as a result. He names the Greek rulers of the time, inheritors of the conquest of Alexander the Great, from Bactria to as far as Greece and North Africa, displaying an amazingly clear grasp of the political situation at the time.”

“The Gandhāran Buddhist Texts (oldest Buddhist manuscripts yet discovered, from ca. 1 CE) are attributed to the Dharmaguptaka school. And some believe that the founder of that Buddhist school was…a Greek .....“Dhammarakkhita (Pali, “protected by the Dharma”), was one of the missionaries sent by the Mauryan emperor Ashoka to proselytize the Buddhist faith. He is described as being a Greek (Pali yona) in the Mahavamsa, and his activities are indicative of the strength of the Hellenistic Greek involvement during the formative centuries of Buddhism. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharmaraksita)

.....“One of the major missionaries was Yonaka Dhammarakkhita. He was…a Greek monk, native of ‘Alasanda’ (Alexandria). He features in the Pali tradition as a master of psychic powers as well as an expert on Abhidhamma…...(http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/13687/oḍḍiyana-interesting-tidbits)

“The Legacy of the Indo-Greeks starts with the formal end of the Indo-Greek Kingdom from the 1st century CE, as the Greek communities of central Asia and northwestern India lived under the control of the Kushan branch of the Yuezhi, apart from a short-lived invasion of the Indo-Parthian Kingdom. The Kushans founded the Kushan Empire, which was to prosper for several centuries. In the south, the Greeks were under the rule of the Western Kshatrapas.”

The 36 Indo-Greek kings known through epigraphy or through their coins belong to the period between 180 BC to 10–20 AD…..

“Isidorus of Charax in his 1st century CE “Parthian stations” itinerary described “Alexandropolis, the metropolis of Arachosia” as being Greek:.....“Beyond is Arachosia (Old Persian Hara[h]uvati, Avestan Haraxvaiti)). And the Parthians call this White India; there are the city of Biyt and the city of Pharsana and the city of Chorochoad (Haraxvat) and the city of Demetrias; then Alexandropolis, the metropolis of Arachosia; it is Greek, and by it flows the river Arachotus(Harahvati). As far as this place the land is under the rule of the Parthians.”—“Parthians stations”, 1st century AD.”

“.....the first anthropomorphic representations of the Buddha himself are often considered a result of the Greco-Buddhist interaction. Before this innovation, Buddhist art was “aniconic”: the Buddha was only represented through his symbols (an empty throne, the Bodhi tree, the Buddha’s footprints, the Dharma wheel). This reluctance towards anthropomorphic representations of the Buddha, and the sophisticated development of aniconic symbols to avoid it (even in narrative scenes where other human figures would appear), seem to be connected to one of the Buddha’s sayings, reported in the Digha Nikaya, that discouraged representations of himself after the extinction of his body…..Probably not feeling bound by these restrictions, and because of “their cult of form, the Greeks were the first to attempt a sculptural representation of the Buddha”.

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Posted: 12 January 2018 04:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 232 ]
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yeah well, you forgot to include this little tidbit

Pyrrho was a Skeptic who created the school named Pyrrhonism. He too wrote after his stay in India that nothing really exists, but said that human life is governed by convention. These two statements are purely Buddhist - showing the connection between the religions of the ancient Greeks with Buddhism. It also shows how attractive Buddhism was to other religions at the time

  Which means that Buddhism was a thriving religion in India and beyond and not at the brink of extinction as you suggested.

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Posted: 12 January 2018 04:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 233 ]
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Confusing thread, “I would like to talk about the god thingy”
Why does poor Buddha keep getting dragged all over the place?

Did he ever speak, write about God?

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Posted: 12 January 2018 04:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 234 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 12 January 2018 04:31 PM

Confusing thread, “I would like to talk about the god thingy”
Why does poor Buddha keep getting dragged all over the place?

Did he ever speak, write about God?

Hubris?

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Posted: 12 January 2018 04:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 235 ]
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If Buddhism was so attractive to other religions, should we not say that Buddhism was exported from its place of origin and influenced other religions, not the other way around?

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Posted: 12 January 2018 06:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 236 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 12 January 2018 04:31 PM

Confusing thread, “I would like to talk about the god thingy”
Why does poor Buddha keep getting dragged all over the place?

Did he ever speak, write about God?

Boris hijacked the thread. It wasn’t going anywhere anyway.

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Posted: 12 January 2018 06:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 237 ]
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its my thread - I started it to talk about Zoroastrianism and Judaism

and then I mentioned that Buddhism was a Greek religion

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Posted: 12 January 2018 06:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 238 ]
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Write4U - 12 January 2018 04:17 PM

yeah well, you forgot to include this little tidbit

Pyrrho was a Skeptic who created the school named Pyrrhonism. He too wrote after his stay in India that nothing really exists, but said that human life is governed by convention. These two statements are purely Buddhist - showing the connection between the religions of the ancient Greeks with Buddhism. It also shows how attractive Buddhism was to other religions at the time

  Which means that Buddhism was a thriving religion in India and beyond and not at the brink of extinction as you suggested.

No it wasn’t it was almost dead and was dying out until the Greeks converted to it and developed it and spread it

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Posted: 12 January 2018 07:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 239 ]
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Boris - 12 January 2018 06:53 PM
Write4U - 12 January 2018 04:17 PM

yeah well, you forgot to include this little tidbit

Pyrrho was a Skeptic who created the school named Pyrrhonism. He too wrote after his stay in India that nothing really exists, but said that human life is governed by convention. These two statements are purely Buddhist - showing the connection between the religions of the ancient Greeks with Buddhism. It also shows how attractive Buddhism was to other religions at the time

  Which means that Buddhism was a thriving religion in India and beyond and not at the brink of extinction as you suggested.

No it wasn’t it was almost dead and was dying out until the Greeks converted to it and developed it and spread it

Can you not see the contradiction in your argument? If the Buddhist philosophy was so bad that it was a dying cult, why should it be so attractive that other religions would bother with adopting it into their religions.

If Buddhism was a bad philosophy, it would have died, just as many other cults. It wasn’t, and it didn’t, and Buddha was not a Greek. Thus Buddhism originated where Buddha lived, from whence it spread.

You must give credit to the author, else it becomes plagiarism.

[ Edited: 12 January 2018 07:13 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 12 January 2018 07:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 240 ]
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Write4U - 12 January 2018 07:04 PM
Boris - 12 January 2018 06:53 PM
Write4U - 12 January 2018 04:17 PM

yeah well, you forgot to include this little tidbit

Pyrrho was a Skeptic who created the school named Pyrrhonism. He too wrote after his stay in India that nothing really exists, but said that human life is governed by convention. These two statements are purely Buddhist - showing the connection between the religions of the ancient Greeks with Buddhism. It also shows how attractive Buddhism was to other religions at the time

  Which means that Buddhism was a thriving religion in India and beyond and not at the brink of extinction as you suggested.

No it wasn’t it was almost dead and was dying out until the Greeks converted to it and developed it and spread it

Can you not see the contradiction in your argument.

no

the Greeks changed Buddhism and spread it - that is the fact

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