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Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR and TREBLINKA II?
Posted: 31 December 2017 08:19 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR or TREBLINKA II?

2DE8CADB00000578-3295228-Mass_graves_Museum_staff_at_Sobib_r_Nazi_death_camp_in_Poland_fo-a-5_1446453391739.jpg


I’m looking for help locating the sceintificl proof that there is a larger mass grave (one that contains the remains of at least 7 people) at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor or Treblinka II, than the one shown above. (Which was excavated at Sobibor.)

Thanks in advance.

[ Edited: 31 December 2017 08:38 PM by Denzel ]
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Posted: 01 January 2018 09:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Additional info:

It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II - hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive claims / allegations / insinuations to the contrary, the simple truth is; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 89 so-called “huge mass graves” alleged to have been scientifically located / proven to currently exist at these five sites - in which actual, verified human remains have literally / truly been physically unearthed / tangibly located by archaeologists / forensic investigators - by means of bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science; contains the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.

http://www.nafcash.com/

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Posted: 01 January 2018 11:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I know many say, Don’t feed the trolls!! - But ! Allowing such insanity to stand without objection or offering relevant real world evidence, don’t make any f’n sense either.

“There are facts, there are opinions, and there are lies,” says historian Deborah Lipstadt, telling the remarkable story of her research into Holocaust deniers—and their deliberate distortion of history. Lipstadt encourages us all to go on the offensive against those who assault the truth and facts. “Truth is not relative,” she says.

https://www.ted.com/talks/deborah_lipstadt_behind_the_lies_of_holocaust_denial

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Posted: 01 January 2018 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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How Holocaust Denial Works
What motivates some people to reject the overwhelming historical evidence and claim the Holocaust never occurred?
https://www.snopes.com/2017/04/17/how-holocaust-denial-works/

By David Emery 14 April 2017

The Holocaust happened.

It is a fact that some six million European Jews were systematically murdered by Nazi Germany and its collaborators between 1941 and 1945 in a state-sponsored program of genocide.

The National Socialists came to power in part by convincing Germans that many of the country’s problems were caused by its Jewish minority, whom they labeled an “inferior race” and depicted as depraved and animal-like in anti-Semitic propaganda. They named their plan for exterminating the Jews the “Final Solution.” Their implementation of a plan to exterminate the Jews — the “Final Solution,” they called it — has been well documented, starting with the 3,000 tons of confiscated of Third Reich paperwork presented in evidence at the Nuremberg trials immediately after the war.

Yet, despite universal agreement among historians about all of the above (“No serious historian questions that the Holocaust took place,” the American Historical Association affirmed in a 1991 statement), there exists a tiny but vocal group of naysayers — conspiracy theorists, actually, given that they claim that “Jewish-controlled” academic and media institutions “invented” the Holocaust — whose mission it is to sow doubt that the genocide of European Jews ever happened. They are known (to everyone but themselves) as Holocaust deniers.

Here are some basic tenets of Holocaust denialism (via the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum): ...

Holocaust Denial and Distortion
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

Holocaust denial is an attempt to negate the established facts of the Nazi genocide of European Jewry. Holocaust denial and distortion are forms of antisemitism. They are generally motivated by hatred of Jews and build on the claim that the Holocaust was invented or exaggerated by Jews as part of a plot to advance Jewish interests.

These views perpetuate long-standing antisemitic stereotypes, hateful charges that were instrumental in laying the groundwork for the Holocaust. Holocaust denial, distortion, and misuse all undermine the understanding of history.

WHY IT’S IMPORTANT TO CONFRONT DENIAL
The Nazi persecution of the Jews began with hateful words, escalated to discrimination and dehumanization, and culminated in genocide. The consequences for Jews were horrific, but suffering and death was not limited to them. Millions of others were victimized, displaced, forced into slave labor, and murdered. The Holocaust shows that when one group is targeted, all people are vulnerable.

Today, in a world witnessing rising antisemitism, awareness of this fact is critical. A society that tolerates antisemitism is susceptible to other forms of racism, hatred, and oppression.

The denial or distortion of history is an assault on truth and understanding. Comprehension and memory of the past are crucial to how we understand ourselves, our society, and our goals for the future. Intentionally denying or distorting the historical record threatens communal understanding of how to safeguard democracy and individual rights.

WHY DO PEOPLE DENY THE HOLOCAUST? ... 
https://www.ushmm.org/confront-antisemitism/holocaust-denial-and-distortion

Holocaust Denial, Explained
United States Holocaust Memorial Museum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtfR31PGZVA

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Posted: 01 January 2018 11:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007273

COMBATING HOLOCAUST DENIAL: ORIGINS OF HOLOCAUST DENIAL

Nazi policy did a great deal to facilitate denial of the Holocaust even as the killing operation unfolded across German-occupied Europe during World War II.

The Holocaust was a state secret in Nazi Germany. The Germans wrote down as little as possible. Most of the killing orders were verbal, particularly at the highest levels. Hitler’s order to kill Jews was issued only on a need-to-know basis. The Nazi leaders generally avoided detailed planning of killing operations, preferring to proceed in a systematic but often improvised manner. The Germans destroyed most documentation that did exist before the end of the war. The documents that survived and related directly to the killing program were virtually all classified and stamped “Geheime Reichssache” (Top Secret), requiring special handling and destruction to prevent capture by the enemy. Heinrich Himmler, Reich Leader of the SS and Chief of the German Police, said in a secret speech to SS generals in Posen in 1943 that the mass murder of the European Jews was a secret, never to be recorded.

In order to hide the killing operation as much as possible from the uninitiated, Hitler ordered that the killings not be spoken of directly in German documentation or in public statements. Instead, the Germans used codenames and neutral-sounding terms for the killing process. In Nazi parlance, for example, “action” (Aktion) referred to a violent operation against Jewish (or other) civilians by German security forces; “resettlement to the East” (Umsiedlung nach dem Osten) referred to the forced deportation of Jewish civilians to killing centers in German-occupied Poland; and “special treatment” (Sonderbehandlung) meant killing.

Both at the time and later, such euphemisms impeded a clear understanding of what the Nazis were doing. This was partly to facilitate the killing process by keeping the victims in the dark about their fate as long as possible. Widespread Jewish resistance was only possible once Jews understood that Nazi policy was to kill all of them. Furthermore, Hitler could not just assume that almost no one would protest the killing of Jews. Even within his own party there were those who agreed with the campaign of persecution against Jews but who occasionally balked at systematic murder. For example, Wilhelm Kube, the German civilian administrator of occupied Belarus, fully supported the murder of the Belarusian Jews, but protested when the SS deported German Jews to Minsk and shot them there.

Hitler had reason to fear possible unfavorable reaction should all the details of the Holocaust become public. ...

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Posted: 01 January 2018 11:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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http://auschwitz.org/en/history/holocaust-denial/

Holocaust denial

Denial of the Holocaust and the genocide in Auschwitz
The concealment of the crime and removal of evidence by the perpetrators

Despite the fact that the tens of thousands of prisoners who survived Auschwitz were witnesses to the crimes committed there; despite the fact that they left behind thousands of depositions, accounts, and memoirs; despite the fact that considerable quantities of documents, photographs, and material objects remain from the camp—despite all of this, there are people and organizations who deny that hundreds of thousands of people were murdered in this camp, that gas chambers operated there, or that the crematoria could burn several thousand corpses per day. In other words, they deny that Auschwitz was the scene of genocide.

Auschwitz is, in many ways, the main target of attacks by deniers, yet the denial of genocide, the existence of the gas chambers, and mass murder nevertheless extends to all the camps, the death camps, and, generally, the mass killing of the Jews.

The scale of this phenomena and its social harmfulness have been acknowledged in many countries as a threat to the social order and made punishable under the law. The legal procedures launched every so often against the deniers prove that the problem is real. It a problem not only for public prosecutors, but also a challenge for historians and educational institutions.

There is nothing new about denial of the crime of genocide or silence about genocide. From the beginning of the war, mainly for political reasons, the Nazis themselves did everything they could to keep international public opinion, and above all the Allied and neutral countries, but also the potential victims, in the dark about the extermination of people in the occupied countries.

Among themselves, however, the narrow circle of the Nazi ruling elite did not conceal these criminal acts.

Addressing high ranking officers in Poznań on October 4, 1943, Himmler, the head of the German police and the SS, said that “Most of you here know what it means when 100 corpses lie next to each other, when 500 lie there. . .. This is an honor roll in our history which has never been and never will be put in writing” (IMT translation).

What did the Nazis do to conceal the crime they had committed? What did they do so that this “honor roll in our history”—or roll of shame—would never be put in writing?

First: they limited the written record of their crime to a minimum;

Second: they falsified the record, to the degree that technical and organizations made its existence necessary;

Third: they destroyed the superfluous and the most incriminating part of the record, once it had served its purpose, in the final phase of the Third Reich. They destroyed not only documents. They also destroyed the mass killing apparatus and liquidated the witnesses.

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Posted: 01 January 2018 11:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Dougsmith, I was going to send you a PM, but might as well ask you in public.

This seems to be the wrong board for such an alt-reality OP -
I’d like to petition you to move it to a more appropriate category -

specifically “Pseudoscience and The Paranormal”

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Posted: 01 January 2018 01:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Additional info:

Remember: If the alleged Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II “holocausts” really did happen, then there actually would be numerous discernable extant huge mass graves filled with the remains of hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of people to prove it. So this is not a historical issue per se; this is clearly about - SCIENCE - and all that is being done here is the common-sense act of simply asking to see the alleged “archaeological proof” that the weak-minded true-believers insist is so “undeniable.” (Remember also - legitimate scientists do not refuse to answer pertinent questions about their claimed discoveries.)

http://www.nafcash.com/

Makes sense to me.

That’s why I’m asking the following simple question (and asking for help finding the answer):

Denzel - 31 December 2017 08:19 PM

Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR or TREBLINKA II?

2DE8CADB00000578-3295228-Mass_graves_Museum_staff_at_Sobib_r_Nazi_death_camp_in_Poland_fo-a-5_1446453391739.jpg

It either is or it isn’t.

If it is, then the answer to my question is yes.

If it is not, then the answer to my question is no.

Couldn’t be simpler.


Edited to add another question:

Are the remains of over 2.1 million jews really buried in the 89 alleged mass graves?

It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II - hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive claims / allegations / insinuations to the contrary, the simple truth is; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 89 so-called “huge mass graves” alleged to have been scientifically located / proven to currently exist at these five sites - in which actual, verified human remains have literally / truly been physically unearthed / tangibly located by archaeologists / forensic investigators - by means of bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science; contains the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.

[ Edited: 01 January 2018 01:36 PM by Denzel ]
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Posted: 01 January 2018 05:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I would request that no one click on the link provided. I’m trying to find out more about it, but I did find this:

“National Association of Forensic Historians is a hoax. It has no members, no constitution, no published work and the so called website is one page of questions taken from the archaeological studies by Haimi, Kola etc. He even cites Hunt, despite Hunt rejecting denialism.”

I would be interested in any counter evidence to this claim, but meanwhile, don’t add clicks to this website’s count.

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Posted: 01 January 2018 10:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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I’m looking for counter evidence as well, that’s why I started this thread.

I have clicked on the link a number of times with no problems and have found the provided links very interesting.

Surely at least one of the 89 claimed mass graves currently contains the remains of at least 7 people, which is what I’m most interested in finding at the moment. (Sorry, but I just don’t buy the “magically disappearing jew theory.”)

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Posted: 01 January 2018 10:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I also find their challenges most compelling:

$1,000.00 - will be remitted for each one of the 89 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant “huge mass graves” of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II that have been identified by The N.A.F.H. - that have been scientifically proven to actually exist and to currently contain the remains of at least 21 people.

and

The N.A.F.H. challenges any doubtful eligible potential claimant to a specific individual reward offer to accept a wager on its ability to prove that it has the ways and means to make good on the promised payment. To date, no one has dared to accept the wager, nor has anyone ever dared to accept the wager offered for disproving the reality that - The C.S.I. Challenge is in fact backed by an association of financial supporters.

and

The N.A.F.H. also offers - a monetary reward for simply identifying / proving any untrue statement of fact found on this webpage.

Looks like they have a lot of confidence in what they say is true.

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Posted: 01 January 2018 10:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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He even cites Hunt, despite Hunt rejecting denialism.”

That would mean they are looking at the evidence from both sides of the issue. Good for them.

But I wonder, how many graves has this Hunt proven to actually exist?

$1,000.00 - will be remitted for each one of the 89 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant “huge mass graves” of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II that have been identified by The N.A.F.H. - that have been scientifically proven to actually exist and to currently contain the remains of at least 21 people.

Edited to answer my own question:

Last note: Not one person who espouses the orthodox stories of these five so-called “holocausts within the holocaust” and/or has fallen for the big “scientifically proven” lie, has ever mustered the courage / integrity / character to accept - The C.S.I. or The U.S. Courtroom Challenge. In fact, the very “scientists” involved in this transparent criminal charade - like cornered rats - cravenly avoid The N.A.F.H. challenges like the plague. (What does that tell you?) And don’t forget: 4 out of the 89 so-called “huge mass graves” have actually been located / proven to exist and to conclusively contain human remains - so why won’t the craven, delusional true-believers invalidate the so-called “holocaust deniers” by proving the claims / allegations / insinuations made about the other 85? What are they so afraid of? (They’re terrified - because they know they have been forensically cornered - and by accepting these challenges, they’ll expose who the real deniers / liars are.)

http://www.nafcash.com/

Edited again to add the Hunt citation:

Eric Hunt: The Treblinka Archaeology Hoax

click for a larger versionWatch Now!

Were 900,000 Jews “gassed” at Treblinka?

Were 3.9 Million “Steamed to Death” in “steam chambers” there too, as according to Nuremberg trial “evidence”?

The official “Holocaust” story is that Treblinka 2 is the largest mass burial site in the entire world, where the Germans gassed 900,000 Jews in 13 “gas chambers disguised as shower rooms.”

“Holocaust Deniers” or “Holocaust Revisionists” claim there’s no evidence for that, and tales of “gas chambers disguised as shower rooms” are wartime atrocity fiction, similar to previously debunked claims about Jews being made into soap and lampshades.

The Treblinka Archaeology Hoax debunks Zionist British Archaeologist Caroline Sturdy Colls’ fraudulent “investigation” of Treblinka, which included digging near clearly marked Christian graves claiming to find new “hidden mass graves”, falsely assigning homicidal intent to a normal life-saving shower room at Majdanek, and misidentifying a terra-cotta tile excavated at Treblinka as belonging to the floor of a homicidal “gas chamber.”

Free yourself from a lifetime of Holo-brainwashing about “Six Million” Jews “gassed” in “Gas Chambers Disguised as Shower Rooms”—

Watch it!

http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=1008

That looks like a very interesting documentary. I will watch it tomorrow.

[ Edited: 01 January 2018 10:30 PM by Denzel ]
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Posted: 02 January 2018 02:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Hello. I would like to ask you a question.

Government of Slovak State (1938-1945) led by catholic priest Jozef Tiso, made a deal with Nazi Germany. Germany required workforce, from wartime Slovakia so Tiso offered 60 000 slovak jews instead. During negotiations was found out that jewish families would be separated, so Slovak government offered 500 reichsmarks to cover the expenses. Jews were to be resettled in Poland.

During 1943 were transports halted. Slovak government received information that already resettled jews were murdered. Government also decided to create a commitee which was to examine location of resettlement. Germany did not allowed that.

Assuming there was no holocaust, why would pro-nazi and antisemitic government stop the transports?

Thanks.

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Posted: 02 January 2018 08:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I would like to ask you a question Offler:

Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR or TREBLINKA II?

2DE8CADB00000578-3295228-Mass_graves_Museum_staff_at_Sobib_r_Nazi_death_camp_in_Poland_fo-a-5_1446453391739.jpg


Yes or no?

It either is or it isn’t.

If it is, then the answer to my question is yes.

If it is not, then the answer to my question is no.


Edited to add:

Earlier, I forgot to include the actual citation from The National Association of Forensic Historians website concerning Eric Hunt:

* * * * * To watch a full length documentary that exposes - The Treblinka Archaeology Hoax - click on this link here:

http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=1008  (Fraudulent archaeologist Caroline Sturdy Colls’ sham “investigation” of Treblinka is debunked.)


* * * * * To read THE definitive work that clearly exposes - the Treblinka holohoax - click on this link here:

http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=8  (The information in this book will enable critical thinkers to better understand how - via fake news stories - ordinary, previously excavated trash pits are currently being fraudulently passed off as “huge mass graves” by unscrupulous “scientists.”)

[ Edited: 02 January 2018 08:38 AM by Denzel ]
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Posted: 02 January 2018 08:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Denzel - 01 January 2018 10:17 PM

Looks like they have a lot of confidence in what they say is true.

Is there any evidence of someone taking them up on the challenge? Surely, someone has submitted something. How did they respond?

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Posted: 02 January 2018 08:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Denzel - 02 January 2018 08:34 AM

Yes or no?

It either is or it isn’t.

If it is, then the answer to my question is yes.

If it is not, then the answer to my question is no.

We understand what questions are. Did you do any other research? Any other excavations? There have been other people doing similar work. What do they say? We all know that there are people who claim expertise on this, yet disagree. So you have to look a little closer, who? how many? what is their evidence? what were their methods? One picture from one guy does not answer any of those questions.

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