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Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR and TREBLINKA II?
Posted: 02 January 2018 08:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Well, it says this on their website:

Last note: Not one person who espouses the orthodox stories of these five so-called “holocausts within the holocaust” and/or has fallen for the big “scientifically proven” lie, has ever mustered the courage / integrity / character to accept - The C.S.I. or The U.S. Courtroom Challenge. In fact, the very “scientists” involved in this transparent criminal charade - like cornered rats - cravenly avoid The N.A.F.H. challenges like the plague. (What does that tell you?) And don’t forget: 4 out of the 89 so-called “huge mass graves” have actually been located / proven to exist and to conclusively contain human remains - so why won’t the craven, delusional true-believers invalidate the so-called “holocaust deniers” by proving the claims / allegations / insinuations made about the other 85? What are they so afraid of? (They’re terrified - because they know they have been forensically cornered - and by accepting these challenges, they’ll expose who the real deniers / liars are.)

http://www.nafcash.com/

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Posted: 02 January 2018 08:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Lausten

We understand what questions are.


Here is another one that I found on The National Association of Forensic Historians website that one should easily be able to answer:


#57 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 16 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people.

But I haven’t been able to yet.

Maybe I’ll get some answers today when I watch that Eric Hunt video.

[ Edited: 02 January 2018 08:50 AM by Denzel ]
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Posted: 02 January 2018 08:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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I also found this on the site:

* * * * * The 16 so-called “huge mass graves” of Treblinka II (#1/74 though #16/89 of the alleged 89) are shown in the map in this link here:

[img]
Collfinalpic.png
[/img]

Edited to add:

And I just found this on another site, called Collstreblinkamap:


https://postimg.org/image/qbddkg1dn/

[ Edited: 02 January 2018 09:06 AM by Denzel ]
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Posted: 02 January 2018 09:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Further reading:

Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka
Holocaust Denial and Operation Reinhard
A Critique of the Falsehoods of Mattogno, Graf and Kues
http://www.academia.edu/7069909/Belzec_Sobibor_Treblinka._Holocaust_Denial_and_Operation_Reinhard._A_Critique_of_the_Falsehoods_of_Mattogno_Graf_and_Kues


Introduction
From the earliest days of their movement, Holocaust deniers have largely centred their arguments on the Auschwitz death camp. Surveying the literature which makes up so-called Holocaust Revisionism, the obsession with Auschwitz is undoubtedly one of its defining features. Since the early 1990s, with the advent of the modern world-wide web, Holocaust deniers have taken to the internet to try and argue their case. Until recently, the ensuing online debates between advocates of Holocaust denial and their critics have likewise focused on Auschwitz. In 2005, there was even a formal debate on Auschwitz between several prominent Revisionists and their critics, hosted at the Real Open Debate on the Holocaust forum.


Around the same time, however, a noticeable shift in Revisionist discourse began to make itself felt. After arguing for so long over Auschwitz, and losing those arguments in open court during the Irving vs Lipstadt libel trial of 2000, deniers began to turn their attention to the so-called Aktion Reinhard camps of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka. Although these camps had been discussed in passing in many older Revisionist works, it was not until the mid-2000s that they became a veritable fixation for Holocaust deniers.

In 2005, sometime National Alliance activist Greg Gerdes created a website to promote a fictitious ‘National Association of Forensic Criminologists and Historians’ offering a reward for “proof” of the existence of mass graves at the three Reinhard camps - what constituted “proof”, needless to say, was entirely up to Gerdes to dictate. The following year, perhaps inspired by the success of the 9/11 conspiracy video ‘Loose Change’, another American Revisionist, ‘denierbud’ (aka ‘Mike Smith’ from California), released the first substantive attempt at a Revisionist You Tube documentary, the 30-part ‘One Third of the Holocaust’ video. Anti-deniers noticed that their opponents were losing interest in Auschwitz and becoming more obsessed with Treblinka . . .

Weird infighting amongst the revisionists

Ex-Denier Eric Hunt lectures Fritz Berg on the Holocaust
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLQrEIL_B6s

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Posted: 02 January 2018 09:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Lausten:

One picture from one guy does not answer any of those questions.

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here Lausten.

Let’s answer this simple question first:

Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR or TREBLINKA II?

2DE8CADB00000578-3295228-Mass_graves_Museum_staff_at_Sobib_r_Nazi_death_camp_in_Poland_fo-a-5_1446453391739.jpg

Yes or no?

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Posted: 02 January 2018 09:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3:

...what constituted “proof”, needless to say, was entirely up to Gerdes to dictate.

Please don’t post lies in this thread Citizenschallenge-v.3.

As anyone can easily see, The National Association of Forensic Historians specifically says what it will accept as proof:

$1,000.00 - will be remitted for each one of the 89 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant “huge mass graves” of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II that have been identified by The N.A.F.H. - that have been scientifically proven to actually exist and to currently contain the remains of at least 21 people.

To begin the incredibly easy process of laying claim to each / any reward - and to set any / all required rules:

First - Potential claimants must contact The N.A.F.H. and submit their 57 answers to Part One of the - Mass Graves / Buried Remains Forensic Evaluation Form:

...

Second - Potential claimants must then request and confirm receipt of the official rules.

Third - Potential claimants must then post their alleged proof on an approved website.

Fourth - If a potential claimant can get Michael Shermer to categorically endorse their eligibly submitted proof (by explicitly stating that said posted proof meets his own, Skeptic Magazine’s and The Skeptics Society’s expressed and implied standards of proof) - the claimant will receive the promised cash reward.

http://www.nafcash.com/

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Posted: 02 January 2018 09:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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The National Association of Forensic Historians website also contains this:

Also note: For those weak-willed true-believers who lack the intelligence, courage, integrity and character to accept - The C.S.I. Challenge; The N.A.F.H. also offers - a monetary reward for simply identifying / proving any untrue statement of fact found on this webpage. Potential claimants for this reward need only to seek endorsement from The N.A.F.H. Proviso: Potential claimants - must publicly pledge to take the matter to court - (sans a jury and both sides pro se legal representation) if they disagree with - The N.A.F.H. final ruling.

Which begs the simple question: Why, if the delusional true-believers are so desperate to end “holocaust denial” that they have gotten it criminalized in numerous countries of the world, do they cravenly refuse to take advantage of this golden opportunity to have their so-called “undeniable scientific proof” for the existence of these illusory “huge mass graves” judicially validated in the U.S. via this incredibly simple, easy and inexpensive - U. S. Courtroom Challenge?

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Posted: 02 January 2018 09:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3:

Weird infighting amongst the revisionists


Citizenschallenge-v.3, why are you so desperately trying to misdirect this thread from the OP?

Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR or TREBLINKA II?

2DE8CADB00000578-3295228-Mass_graves_Museum_staff_at_Sobib_r_Nazi_death_camp_in_Poland_fo-a-5_1446453391739.jpg

Is it because you’re afraid of what the answer is?

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Posted: 02 January 2018 09:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Hopefully we can now focus on what I set out to find.

The National Association of Forensic Historians website has this as its opening statement:

BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR and TREBLINKA II

Are the remains of over 2.1 million jews really buried in the 89 alleged mass graves?

It is alleged in orthodox historiography that; during WW II - hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried in numerous “huge mass graves” at Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II. However, despite all the deceptive claims / allegations / insinuations to the contrary, the simple truth is; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 89 so-called “huge mass graves” alleged to have been scientifically located / proven to currently exist at these five sites - in which actual, verified human remains have literally / truly been physically unearthed / tangibly located by archaeologists / forensic investigators - by means of bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science; contains the remains of - ONLY SIX PEOPLE.

I would like to see the scientific proof that there is a grave in one of those locations that currently contains the remains of at least 7 people.

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Posted: 02 January 2018 09:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Denzel - 02 January 2018 09:32 AM

Is it because you’re afraid of what the answer is?

No, it’s because I despise con artists and the games they play.

It’s always fun playing game with an uninformed audience.

We don’t know squat about that picture or where or when it was taken and you haven’t offered any background.

Demanding expert answers from non experts is a typical con-artist move.  It does not impress.

What about these?
http:::sobibor.info.pl:?page_id=331#PhotoSwipe1514910654111.png
http://sobibor.info.pl/?page_id=331#PhotoSwipe1514910654111

http:::sobibor.info.pl.png
http://sobibor.info.pl/?page_id=331

Denying the Holocaust
By Deborah Lipstadt
Last updated 2011-02-17

Deborah Lipstadt discusses how misinformation and false claims are used to question the reality of the Nazis’ attempt to exterminate Europe’s Jews.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/deniers_01.shtml

Incidentally, what are you doing here?  Are you denying the holocaust happened, or are you just a head-fuk for the fun of it?

Denzel - 02 January 2018 09:14 AM

Yes or no?

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Posted: 02 January 2018 10:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Denzel - 02 January 2018 09:44 AM

The National Association of Forensic Historians website ...

Have you tried googling them - nothing other than their blog appears, sometimes Holohoax blogs - with wording like that, you want us to take them seriously?
No background information.  Though I did find this from within the community

SEPTEMBER 22, 2009
The Old Chimp and his Apprentice
Author: Roberto Muehlenkamp
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. com/2009/09/old-chimp-and-his-apprentice.html

... Gerdes is the “president”, and apparently also the only member, of an association that now calls itself the “National Association of Forensic Historians” (it used to be “National Association of Forensic Criminologists, Archaeologists, Skeptics and Historians” – “National Association of Fish-Wives, Cretins and Screaming Hysterics” would have been more appropriate, as the president fulfills all membership requirements) and hosts a website that is hard to match for paranoid hollering and colorful hysteria even in “Revisionist” cloud-cuckoo-land.

On this website Gerdes announces a reward of $ 100,000 for “locating / proving the existence of just one grave that contains just one tenth of one percent of the alleged mass murder” at either Treblinka or Sobibor extermination camp. Applicants to the reward are supposed to submit their evidence in an article published in SKEPTIC magazine (“Therefore, all one has to do to become an applicant for THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE TM reward, is to have said claims / results first published in “SKEPTIC” Magazine”), and of course the reward offer is a big fat hoax, already because it is nowhere stated what evidence the NAFH would accept as fulfilling the requirements of its “challenge” and entitling the applicant to the reward (one would also not expect characters like Gerdes and his hillbilly friends to put together anything like $ 100,000, of course – they probably can barely manage to pay their trailer park rents).

I accepted this “challenge” in a previous version (which still included Belzec and Chelmno extermination camps IIRC - both have since vanished for some reason) but have not yet claimed the reward, even though I’m positive that the eyewitness, documentary and physical evidence I can show would convince any historian or any court of justice in Germany or the US that the remains of a number of human beings immensely higher than Gerdes’ idiotic “one tenth of one per cent” lie in the soil of both Sobibor and Treblinka and am also able to locate at least four of the Sobibor mass graves.

The main reason why I have not yet claimed the reward is known to who has been following my discussions with Gerdes and was last expressed in my post # 2089 on the VNN thread Archeological Investigations of Treblinka: Gerdes persistently refused to state what evidence he would accept as proof meeting the requirements for claiming the reward, running away from every question in this sense or responding with meaningless hysterical “what part of the word ‘proof’ do you not understand” – screams.

Mass Graves at Sobibor – 10th Update
http://codoh.blogspot.com/2008/10/

But the reason for my going to Sobibor was not, or not only, an expected confrontation with this scum of mankind. I had booked the trip in the hope that there would be excavations by the Sobibor Archaeological Project at this time, and when this hope did not materialize, I decided that it would nevertheless be worthwhile to familiarize myself with the location and see what the mass grave areas identified in 2001 by Prof. Andrzej Kola and partially visible on air and satellite photographs, which are the subject of this article, looked like from ground perspective. I also wanted to check the accuracy of information on the Wikipedia page about Sobibor, referred to in this article’s 3rd Update, that “close to the burial pits, bone fragments still litter the area”.

What I found on site is recorded in the photographs and stills from video films available on the RODOH thread My Trip to Sobibor.

The bone fragments I came upon in some parts of the area around the “ash mountain” memorial, especially by the path leading to the memorial and in places where soil had been dug up by wild animals or by robbery diggers, confirmed the Wikipedia information quoted above. I therefore inserted a footnote reference to the aforementioned RODOH thread on the Wikipedia page. Below are some of the photos of bone fragments I took at Sobibor.

Here’s an interesting overview of the “fair and balance” dialogue going on.

Showing posts with label censorship by deniers.
http://codoh.blogspot.com/search/label/censorship by deniers

Oh and to take a stab at your question again - how about the need to hear what the other side (history and evidence) has to say about the disgusting topic.

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Posted: 02 January 2018 10:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Denzel - 02 January 2018 08:41 AM

Well, it says this on their website:

Last note: Not one person who espouses the orthodox stories of these five so-called “holocausts within the holocaust” and/or has fallen for the big “scientifically proven” lie, has ever mustered the courage / integrity / character to accept - The C.S.I. or The U.S. Courtroom Challenge. In fact, the very “scientists” involved in this transparent criminal charade - like cornered rats - cravenly avoid The N.A.F.H. challenges like the plague. (What does that tell you?) And don’t forget: 4 out of the 89 so-called “huge mass graves” have actually been located / proven to exist and to conclusively contain human remains - so why won’t the craven, delusional true-believers invalidate the so-called “holocaust deniers” by proving the claims / allegations / insinuations made about the other 85? What are they so afraid of? (They’re terrified - because they know they have been forensically cornered - and by accepting these challenges, they’ll expose who the real deniers / liars are.)

http://www.nafcash.com/

One of the first clues that someone is not a serious academic or scientist, or adult, is the use of childish language. I’m not doing any more than skimming your posts now, because they are the ramblings of an angry pre-teen (at least the equivalent). It’s called circular reasoning: the website says no one challenged them, therefore no one challenged them.

I’m not “getting ahead of myself”, I’m doing actual historical research where you look at all the evidence and check references against other references.

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Posted: 02 January 2018 10:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Lausten:

I’m not “getting ahead of myself”, I’m doing actual historical research where you look at all the evidence and check references against other references.

Science Lausten, this is about science.

As The N.A.F.H. website clearly states:

Remember: If the alleged Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II “holocausts” really did happen, then there actually would be numerous discernable extant huge mass graves filled with the remains of hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of people to prove it. So this is not a historical issue per se; this is clearly about - SCIENCE - and all that is being done here is the common-sense act of simply asking to see the alleged “archaeological proof” that the weak-minded true-believers insist is so “undeniable.” (Remember also - legitimate scientists do not refuse to answer pertinent questions about their claimed discoveries.)

http://www.nafcash.com/

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Posted: 02 January 2018 10:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3:

Demanding expert answers from non experts is a typical con-artist move.  It does not impress.

...

Incidentally, what are you doing here?  Are you denying the holocaust happened, or are you just a head-fuk for the fun of it?

One simple question Citizenschallenge-v.3.

One simple question:

Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR or TREBLINKA II?

2DE8CADB00000578-3295228-Mass_graves_Museum_staff_at_Sobib_r_Nazi_death_camp_in_Poland_fo-a-5_1446453391739.jpg

Yes or no?

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Posted: 02 January 2018 10:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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These are excellent questions as well, taken directly from The N.A.F.H. website:

#45 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 33 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people.

#48 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 15 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Chelmno identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people.

#51 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 7 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Ponary identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people.

#54 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 18 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people.

#57 - It is known - via a preponderance of scientific evidence - that; the largest (in terms of quantity of remains) of the 16 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - currently contains the remains of no less than __?__ people.

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