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Is this the largest mass grave ever proven to exist at BELZEC, CHELMNO, PONARY, SOBIBOR and TREBLINKA II?
Posted: 11 January 2018 05:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 166 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 10 January 2018 10:19 AM

kjq

http://sobibor.info.pl/?page_id=1248

http://sobibor.info.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/SobibĂłr-Bem-Mazurek-ANG..pdf
page 35.

Sobibór - archaeological research…
 
workers, as well as the results of a professional evaluation and the inspection of the scene of the crime. The camp was situated in Włodawa Province in Lublin Voivevodship, right next to the Sobibór railway station on the Chełm-Włodawa- Brześć [Brest] route. From the north, south and east, the camp was surrounded by a thin pine forest, which also partly grows in the northern and western ends of the camp. Along the western border of the camp runs the track of the above- mentioned railway route. The Sobibór railway station is also located here, from which, starts a small siding running into the area of the camp. The measurements taken during the court examination showed that the camp had been 58 hectares in size.

At present, none of the devices used directly to kill the victims in the camp have remained, whereas a few houses (damaged to a great extent), which served as dwelling houses for the camp personnel have been preserved. In the middle part of the camp, probably in the places meant to hide the ashes, there is a young two-year- old pine forest which occupies about 1200 square metres. Trial diggings have proved that under the layer of sand, there is a one-and-a-half-metre deep layer of ashes and the remains of human bones mixed with sand.

Not far from the eastern border of the camp, there was found a pit, 20 x 15 metres, which had formerly contained chloride. One can come across human bones over the whole area of the camp. The results of the expert evaluation also point towards the real function of the camp. Thus, the Institute of Forensic Medicine at Jagiellonian University ruling states that the examined bones are human bones. The Institute of Court Expertise in Cracow ruling says that the sand sampled from the diggings contains an admixture of human bone ashes and fat.

In the places where, according to the witnesses’ testimonies, the building containing the gas chambers was located, a certain amount of rubble was found. On the basis of the measurements made during the examination of the place, a plan of the camp area has been drafted. On this, all the remains of the camp have been marked. Apart from that, the files contain a plan of the camp from the period when it was operational, made by former camp prisoners, and sent by the Central Jewish Historical Commission.

The site where the rubble was found during the examination, by and large, coincides with the location of the gas chamber drawn upon this reconstruction plan [...] The liquidation of the camp took place after the revolt, in November 1943. All the machinery and metalwork was taken away, while the brick buildings were blown up; even the rubble was removed by train. A forest was planted over part of the camp area [...]18.

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Posted: 12 January 2018 08:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 167 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3:

When are you going to establish the validity of NAFH ???

How many times do you have to be reminded Citizenschallenge-v.3:

Remember: ...this is clearly about - SCIENCE - and all that is being done here is the common-sense act of simply asking to see the alleged “archaeological proof” that the weak-minded true-believers insist is so “undeniable.”

http://www.nafcash.com/

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Posted: 12 January 2018 08:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 168 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3:

Sobibór - archaeological research…
 
Trial diggings have proved that under the layer of sand, there is a one-and-a-half-metre deep layer of ashes and the remains of human bones mixed with sand… Thus, the Institute of Forensic Medicine at Jagiellonian University ruling states that the examined bones are human bones. The Institute of Court Expertise in Cracow ruling says that the sand sampled from the diggings contains an admixture of human bone ashes and fat.

Citizenschallenge-v.3,

Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 24 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed at least one pound of scientifically verified human cremains - Yes. - or - No. - ??

[ Edited: 12 January 2018 08:24 AM by Denzel ]
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Posted: 12 January 2018 08:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 169 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3:

You can’t even acknowledge cremation and pulverized remains !

Citizenschallenge-v.3,

#32 - Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 94 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed at least one pound of scientifically verified human cremains - Yes. - or - No. - ??

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Posted: 12 January 2018 09:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 170 ]
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So let me back up just a bit here. I have received information from The N.A.F.H. regarding their latest update, which included adding 4 more “huge mass graves” to the previous 20 at Sobibor.

As can be seen on their website:

* * * * The 24 so-called “huge mass graves” of Sobibor (#1/56 though #24/79 of the alleged 94) are shown in the map on page 7 in this link here:

Sobibor map 1   And in the map on page 5 in this link here:

Sobibor map 2   (Contact The N.A.F.H. for its grave numbering system for this camp.)

http://www.nafcash.com/


The reason for the change is that Sobibor “huge mass grave” #1/56, which used to be shown on the map as one “huge mass grave,” is now shown on the map to be 3 of them within the same area.

See for yourself in the map shon on page 7 in this link here:

http://sobibor.info.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Report-by-Y.Haimi-Autumn-2013.pdf

So the top “huge mass grave” of the three is #1/56, the bottom left one is #23/78 and the bottom right one is #24/79

[ Edited: 12 January 2018 09:09 AM by Denzel ]
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Posted: 12 January 2018 09:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 171 ]
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Denzel - 12 January 2018 08:17 AM

Citizenschallenge-v.3:

Sobibór - archaeological research…
 
Trial diggings have proved that under the layer of sand, there is a one-and-a-half-metre deep layer of ashes and the remains of human bones mixed with sand… Thus, the Institute of Forensic Medicine at Jagiellonian University ruling states that the examined bones are human bones. The Institute of Court Expertise in Cracow ruling says that the sand sampled from the diggings contains an admixture of human bone ashes and fat.

Citizenschallenge-v.3,

Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 24 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed at least one pound of scientifically verified human cremains - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Isn’t this enough to at least suspend his account? He quotes the answer then asks the question again.

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Posted: 12 January 2018 09:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 172 ]
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Lausten - 12 January 2018 09:07 AM
Denzel - 12 January 2018 08:17 AM

Citizenschallenge-v.3:

Sobibór - archaeological research…
 
Trial diggings have proved that under the layer of sand, there is a one-and-a-half-metre deep layer of ashes and the remains of human bones mixed with sand… Thus, the Institute of Forensic Medicine at Jagiellonian University ruling states that the examined bones are human bones. The Institute of Court Expertise in Cracow ruling says that the sand sampled from the diggings contains an admixture of human bone ashes and fat.

Citizenschallenge-v.3,

Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 24 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed at least one pound of scientifically verified human cremains - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Isn’t this enough to at least suspend his account? He quotes the answer then asks the question again.

If you think I quoted an answer to that question, them tell me what your answer is to it.

Yes. - or - No. - Lausten?

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Posted: 12 January 2018 09:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 173 ]
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The other two added “huge mass graves” of Sobibor are the two orange colored areas seen in the map on page 5 in this link here:

http://sobibor.info.pl/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Autumn_2015-Y.-Haimi.pdf

The one on the left is Sobibor “huge mass grave” #21/76

The one on the right is Sobibor “huge mass grave” #22/77

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Posted: 12 January 2018 09:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 174 ]
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Any questions about the 4 new “huge mass graves” of Sobibor?

It’s pretty simple.

BTW, the original “huge mass grave” #1 at Sobibor once looked like this:
[img]
Kola_09.jpg[/img]

[ Edited: 12 January 2018 09:24 AM by Denzel ]
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Posted: 12 January 2018 09:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 175 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3:

Why not simply try to explain the point you’re trying to make

I think The National Association of Forensic Historians makes the point clearly:

You need only to open your eyes to see through the jews transparent “holocaust archaeology” lies.

By examining each “huge mass grave” allegation separately, an intelligent person can easily see how vacuous and fraudulent the jews “scientifically proven” - mass grave shell game - really is.

http://www.nafcash.com/

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Posted: 12 January 2018 11:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 176 ]
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Lausten - 12 January 2018 09:07 AM
Denzel - 12 January 2018 08:17 AM

Citizenschallenge-v.3:

Sobibór - archaeological research…
 
Trial diggings have proved that under the layer of sand, there is a one-and-a-half-metre deep layer of ashes and the remains of human bones mixed with sand… Thus, the Institute of Forensic Medicine at Jagiellonian University ruling states that the examined bones are human bones. The Institute of Court Expertise in Cracow ruling says that the sand sampled from the diggings contains an admixture of human bone ashes and fat.

Citizenschallenge-v.3,

Can you currently prove - with the same standard of proof applied in U.S. criminal courts - that at least one of the 24 claimed / alleged / insinuated extant graves of Sobibor identified by The N.A.F.H. - has actually been located / proven to exist, in which legitimate archaeologists / forensic investigators have, via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented methodology - literally unearthed at least one pound of scientifically verified human cremains - Yes. - or - No. - ??

Isn’t this enough to at least suspend his account? He quotes the answer then asks the question again.

Yes, thanks.

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Doug

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El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

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Posted: 12 January 2018 11:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 177 ]
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Denzel - 12 January 2018 08:12 AM

Citizenschallenge-v.3:

When are you going to establish the validity of NAFH ???

How many times do you have to be reminded Citizenschallenge-v.3:

Remember: ...this is clearly about - SCIENCE - and all that is being done here is the common-sense act of simply asking to see the alleged “archaeological proof” that the weak-minded true-believers insist is so “undeniable.”

http://www.nafcash.com/

That says nothing about who he (NAFH) is or what he knows.  Why the fear to explain who you are and what your motives might be?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Holocaust_denial

Criticism of Holocaust denial is directed against people who claim that the genocide of Jews during World War II in the Holocaust[1] did not occur in the manner or to the extent described by reputable scholarship. Key elements of such claims are the rejection of any of the following:

That the Nazi government had a policy of deliberately targeting people of Jewish ancestry for extermination as a people;
That between five and seven million Jews[1] were systematically killed by Nazi Germany and its allies and collaborators;
That genocide was carried out at extermination camps using tools of mass murder, such as gas chambers.[2][3]

The methodologies of Holocaust deniers has been criticized as being based on a predetermined conclusion that ignores the overwhelming historical evidence to the contrary.[4]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

Holocaust denial or Holocaust revisionism is the assertion that the Holocaust (often called the “Holohoax” by deniers) perpetrated by Nazi Germany, other Axis powers, and their collaborators in occupied Europe during the Second World War never happened (denial) or happened vastly differently from the “official” story (revision). Like most conspiracy theories, it takes many forms; however, the claims generally fall into three categories:

The Nazi Holocaust was faked (Holocaust truther):
TLDR: The evidence is fabricated.
The Allies faked evidence for the Holocaust to gain the world’s sympathy, and “history is written by the victors”.
The world-controlling Jews faked evidence for the Holocaust to gain the world’s sympathy (see Holocaust profit controversy) and encourage Jewish migration to Eretz Israel.
Surviving death camp witnesses are/were insane, liars, or shills. The Nuremberg testimonies were extracted via torture (and thus untrustworthy) or were otherwise faked.

The Nazi Holocaust didn’t happen (Holocaust denier):
TLDR: The evidence is wrong.
The Final Solution was not genocide, but merely the expulsion of all Jews from Germany. (Repeat for all other races.) As such, concentration camps were pre-emigration camps, gas chambers were delousing stations, etc.
The Holocaust was not genocide, but merely a forced-labor program during wartime. As such, concentration camps were work camps, etc.
Hitler actually protected European Jews.[3]
Other groups supposedly slaughtered by the Holocaust (such as Roma or homosexuals) were not included, and in fact helped the Germans enact it.

The Nazi Holocaust wasn’t that bad (Holocaust revisionist):
TLDR: The evidence is weak.
Reported death counts are overexaggerated, and the 6,000,000 dead Jews figure is especially wrong.
Other groups supposedly included in the Holocaust (such as disabled persons) were not included in the Holocaust.
Stalin killed more people in the Holodomor. (Possibly true, but so what?)
The Allies killed civilians too (e.g., Bombing of Dresden). (Ditto)

Deniers who believe 1 (fake) tend to believe 2 (didn’t happen) and 3 (not bad).[note 1] Deniers who believe 2 (didn’t happen) tend to believe 3 (not bad).
Moreover, People who believe 1 (faked) tend to be harder to discuss evidence with than 2 (didn’t happen); the same for 2 (didn’t happen) than 3 (not bad).
It could thus be argued that there are different “layers” of holocaust denial.

In order of increasing distance from reality: (3) it wasn’t bad, (2) it didn’t happen, and (1) it was faked.

Holocaust denial, as noted, has many variants. This article tries to briefly rebut the most common claims.

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