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Is astrology harmless?
Posted: 19 April 2018 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Is astrology harmless? I think believing in astrology is means a lack of critical thinking, but it does not ask you to ostracize or harm anyone. What other evil can astrology lead to? Is it harmful to engage in astrology for entertainment?

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Posted: 19 April 2018 01:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Karthik - 19 April 2018 11:11 AM

Is astrology harmless? I think believing in astrology is means a lack of critical thinking, but it does not ask you to ostracize or harm anyone. What other evil can astrology lead to? Is it harmful to engage in astrology for entertainment?

Entertainment, seems fine.

Problems arise when we replace, rational fact based evaluation of situations, with belief in fantasy thinking and faith-blinded nonsense.

Particularly, when the faith demands you ignore down to Earth reality.  Then people start inflicting harm and evil.

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Posted: 19 April 2018 02:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 19 April 2018 01:48 PM
Karthik - 19 April 2018 11:11 AM

Is astrology harmless? I think believing in astrology is means a lack of critical thinking, but it does not ask you to ostracize or harm anyone. What other evil can astrology lead to? Is it harmful to engage in astrology for entertainment?

Entertainment, seems fine.

Problems arise when we replace, rational fact based evaluation of situations, with belief in fantasy thinking and faith-blinded nonsense.

Particularly, when the faith demands you ignore down to Earth reality.  Then people start inflicting harm and evil.

These problems are limited to the individual. If a person believes a fortune teller he/she runs the risk of being fleeced.
Is there a greater harm to the society?  For example, if one follow a religion that says a particular minority/group are a threat to my religion, they will be persecuted.

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Posted: 19 April 2018 02:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Karthik - 19 April 2018 02:11 PM
Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 19 April 2018 01:48 PM
Karthik - 19 April 2018 11:11 AM

Is astrology harmless? I think believing in astrology is means a lack of critical thinking, but it does not ask you to ostracize or harm anyone. What other evil can astrology lead to? Is it harmful to engage in astrology for entertainment?

Entertainment, seems fine.

Problems arise when we replace, rational fact based evaluation of situations, with belief in fantasy thinking and faith-blinded nonsense.

Particularly, when the faith demands you ignore down to Earth reality.  Then people start inflicting harm and evil.

These problems are limited to the individual. If a person believes a fortune teller he/she runs the risk of being fleeced.
Is there a greater harm to the society?  For example, if one follow a religion that says a particular minority/group are a threat to my religion, they will be persecuted.

I think you only have to look at the disaster unfolding in American politics, or the manmade global warming catastrophe we are creating, etc, etc,
to recognize the public dangers of personal dependance on wishful thinking.

Unfortunately what we think, does not remain in our bedrooms.  cheese

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Posted: 19 April 2018 02:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 19 April 2018 02:17 PM

Karthik - 19 April 2018 02:11 PM
Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 19 April 2018 01:48 PM
Karthik - 19 April 2018 11:11 AM

Is astrology harmless? I think believing in astrology is means a lack of critical thinking, but it does not ask you to ostracize or harm anyone. What other evil can astrology lead to? Is it harmful to engage in astrology for entertainment?

Entertainment, seems fine.

Problems arise when we replace, rational fact based evaluation of situations, with belief in fantasy thinking and faith-blinded nonsense.

Particularly, when the faith demands you ignore down to Earth reality.  Then people start inflicting harm and evil.

These problems are limited to the individual. If a person believes a fortune teller he/she runs the risk of being fleeced.
Is there a greater harm to the society?  For example, if one follow a religion that says a particular minority/group are a threat to my religion, they will be persecuted.

I think you only have to look at the disaster unfolding in American politics, or the manmade global warming catastrophe we are creating, etc, etc,
to recognize the public dangers of personal dependance on wishful thinking.

Unfortunately what we think, does not remain in our bedrooms.  cheese

How does global warming relate to this? Counter evidence provided against climate change is much better than evidence provided by an astrologer.

PS. I think climate change is happening and is man made.

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Posted: 19 April 2018 02:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Karthik - 19 April 2018 02:23 PM

How does global warming relate to this? Counter evidence provided against climate change is much better than evidence provided by an astrologer.

PS. I think climate change is happening and is man made.

It’s the embrace of wishful thinking I’m referring to.
It’s the using fantasy thinking to ignore reality and to ignore the consequences of our actions, that I’m referring to.
I link the delusional full throttled embrace of evangelical personal cult - Jesus Savior - promises “After-life” in heaven,
so we can ignore everything downing to this Earth in this life.  The Bible tells us “GOD” tells us consume the Earth fast as fuking possible without
the slightest concern for the consequences of their actions.  Cause God’s got em covered on the rebound, in Heaven, after our bodies are gone and returned from the Earth from whence it came.  (oh boy, you’re getting me going, but I got no time, gotta stop )  Don’t tell me that don’t effect everything ....  cheese

People that presume they know god and “are doing God’s duty”,
to the total rejection of experiential fact based understanding.
They are running the world and destroying the world.


But I’ve got to check out of this conversation for a few days.
If you’re still around next week, we’ll meet again.

Oh and welcome to CFI, hope you have some fun over here.

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Posted: 19 April 2018 02:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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here, chew on this, tell me what you think.

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/19905/

wink

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Posted: 19 April 2018 03:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 19 April 2018 02:55 PM
Karthik - 19 April 2018 02:23 PM

How does global warming relate to this? Counter evidence provided against climate change is much better than evidence provided by an astrologer.

PS. I think climate change is happening and is man made.

It’s the embrace of wishful thinking I’m referring to.
It’s the using fantasy thinking to ignore reality and to ignore the consequences of our actions, that I’m referring to.
I link the delusional full throttled embrace of evangelical personal cult - Jesus Savior - promises “After-life” in heaven,
so we can ignore everything downing to this Earth in this life.  The Bible tells us “GOD” tells us consume the Earth fast as fuking possible without
the slightest concern for the consequences of their actions.  Cause God’s got em covered on the rebound, in Heaven, after our bodies are gone and returned from the Earth from whence it came.  (oh boy, you’re getting me going, but I got no time, gotta stop )  Don’t tell me that don’t effect everything ....  cheese

People that presume they know god and “are doing God’s duty”,
to the total rejection of experiential fact based understanding.
They are running the world and destroying the world.


But I’ve got to check out of this conversation for a few days.
If you’re still around next week, we’ll meet again.

Oh and welcome to CFI, hope you have some fun over here.

Thanks!  I see religion and astrology as two different things.

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Posted: 19 April 2018 06:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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It is harmless. Very few people strongly believe in it, and those people often have other serious psychological problems that deserve far more blame.

Fun fact: In America “professional” astrologers and fortune tellers are often fronts for criminal activity.

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Posted: 20 April 2018 03:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Its not harmless in cases when the fortuneteller is taking large amounts of money from the “customer”.

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Posted: 20 April 2018 06:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I agree that astrologers and fortune tellers can easily fleece gullible people. Should there be a law against it in that case. I don’t know how “fraud” is handled by the legal system.

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Posted: 20 April 2018 09:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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It’s only harmful if it’s the basis of action that affects others. I seem to remember Reagan relying on an astrologer. If that was the case and he used it as a basis for decisions, then yes very bad, even if the decisions themselves resulted in something positive.

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Posted: 20 April 2018 10:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Karthik - 19 April 2018 02:11 PM
Citizenschallenge-v.3 - 19 April 2018 01:48 PM
Karthik - 19 April 2018 11:11 AM

Is astrology harmless? I think believing in astrology is means a lack of critical thinking, but it does not ask you to ostracize or harm anyone. What other evil can astrology lead to? Is it harmful to engage in astrology for entertainment?

Entertainment, seems fine.

Problems arise when we replace, rational fact based evaluation of situations, with belief in fantasy thinking and faith-blinded nonsense.

Particularly, when the faith demands you ignore down to Earth reality.  Then people start inflicting harm and evil.

These problems are limited to the individual. If a person believes a fortune teller he/she runs the risk of being fleeced.
Is there a greater harm to the society?  For example, if one follow a religion that says a particular minority/group are a threat to my religion, they will be persecuted.

But why does an individual believe? Astrology appears in every newspaper and is presented with no notice of it being for entertainment only. I know people with good jobs, who appear to be intelligent, but spend a lot of time on it and take it quite seriously. They have children and other young people see this and that perpetuates belief. Religion is obviously much better organized and fake news has become a weapon in the war on sane political choices. So, it’s not a problem limited to the individual. If it was, the word “scam” would be meaningless.

We have a culture that promotes credulity. It’s not a conspiracy, but there are forces behind it that can be identified. It’s not that easy to draw a line and say this or that is an individual choice and nothing should be done to interfere with that choice.

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Posted: 20 April 2018 12:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Maybe “individual” was the wrong term to use there. I think in order to qualify something as a ‘fraud’ or ‘scam’ , one should establish damage/injury or loss. If horoscopes cause damage,  people would be suing newspapers and magazines.

PS: I am not a legal expert.

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Posted: 20 April 2018 12:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Karthik - 20 April 2018 06:39 AM

I agree that astrologers and fortune tellers can easily fleece gullible people. Should there be a law against it in that case. I don’t know how “fraud” is handled by the legal system.

Some jurisdictions have laws prohibiting astrologers et al. from accepting payment for their “services”, but it’s only a misdemeanor so the penalties are very mild and unlikely to steer behavior in a fair direction. Other jurisdictions require a novelty license to set up shop, but again that is a mostly futile attempt at curbing exploitation. In either case these people are usually savvy enough to navigate any legal traps.

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Posted: 20 April 2018 06:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Karthik - 20 April 2018 12:09 PM

Maybe “individual” was the wrong term to use there. I think in order to qualify something as a ‘fraud’ or ‘scam’ , one should establish damage/injury or loss. If horoscopes cause damage,  people would be suing newspapers and magazines.

PS: I am not a legal expert.

You don’t need to meet a legal standard for something to be what it is. Libel and slander are pretty easy to recognize, but it’s hard to sue someone for it. Scams are a little easier because there is usually some blatant lie with the intent to get money. This is less obvious when you are telling someone what they want to hear and then they want to reimburse you for your trouble, but an outside observer can still spot it as a scam just the same.

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