TED Talk - “My descent into America’s neo-Nazi movement—and how I got out | Christian Picciolini”
Posted: 26 April 2018 04:19 PM   [ Ignore ]
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM6HZqQKhok

One of the best lectures from TED I’ve found recently. Christian didn’t come out and say it, but he was basically advancing the best side of Christ’s teachings - love thy enemy and the like, applied to bringing people out of hate groups.

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Posted: 26 April 2018 07:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Excellent. I always forget that compassion thingy.

There’s a related one by a black guy who masqueraded online as alt-right.

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Posted: 27 April 2018 01:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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He visited Bratislava year and half ago and spoke about his life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv8LJRy2jug

I am looking for a lenghtly interview with him, when he said that they were doing on Hitlers birthday, because its funny story smile


Here it is at the bottom of the blog. Tune down the volume, its noisy at start. After short slovak introduction they start speak english.
https://novinky.blog.sme.sk/c/446156/spoved-americkeho-skinheada-v-denniku-sme.html

[ Edited: 27 April 2018 01:12 AM by Offler ]
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Posted: 27 April 2018 06:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I’m going to throw a Debbie Downer on this one. I’ve tried to work on this empathy thing quite a bit, and of course it’s good and there are lots of stories of how it works, but it has some definite limits. You can’t make someone else be empathetic is chief among them. It can work well when someone is going through some emotional difficulty but underneath that is a decent person. When it fails is when the person is not decent, when they are intending to cause harm and their entire worldview justifies it. Until something happens that can’t be planned or setup or created, like this guy’s reaction to having a baby, there is no opening. The only option is to set boundaries around people like that. You could still express empathy, but preventing their harmful actions becomes the priority. You can’t be understanding about how they firebombed a clinic.

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Posted: 30 April 2018 08:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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Good on Picciolini for moving away from all that, but his story is really boring and unimpressive. He can find a captive audience in nice white liberals who think he was like Derek Vinyard and make some extra money.

This guy was a minor player in a minor crowd in a place that barely had any people different from himself living there, he didn’t do anything “extreme” whatsoever like murder, prison time or even overcoming some obstacle to realize skinheads are retards. It was basically a teen rebellion experience that he naturally and painlessly grew out of.

Also, don’t buy his new book, it’s a rehash of his first one with a new introduction.

[ Edited: 30 April 2018 08:18 PM by Beltane ]
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Posted: 01 May 2018 04:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Beltane - 30 April 2018 08:16 PM

Good on Picciolini for moving away from all that, but his story is really boring and unimpressive. He can find a captive audience in nice white liberals who think he was like Derek Vinyard and make some extra money.

This guy was a minor player in a minor crowd in a place that barely had any people different from himself living there, he didn’t do anything “extreme” whatsoever like murder, prison time or even overcoming some obstacle to realize skinheads are retards. It was basically a teen rebellion experience that he naturally and painlessly grew out of.

Also, don’t buy his new book, it’s a rehash of his first one with a new introduction.

Not every skinhead grows out from that. Here in Slovakia they formed a political party and gained some support. So far nobody wants speak with them, they are fringe conspiracy theorists, but they have been put into elected seats…

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Posted: 01 May 2018 05:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Beltane - 30 April 2018 08:16 PM

This guy was a minor player in a minor crowd in a place that barely had any people different from himself living there, he didn’t do anything “extreme” whatsoever like murder, prison time or even overcoming some obstacle to realize skinheads are retards. It was basically a teen rebellion experience that he naturally and painlessly grew out of.

I don’t think the guy claimed otherwise in that lecture.

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Posted: 01 May 2018 02:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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TromboneAndrew - 01 May 2018 05:37 AM
Beltane - 30 April 2018 08:16 PM

This guy was a minor player in a minor crowd in a place that barely had any people different from himself living there, he didn’t do anything “extreme” whatsoever like murder, prison time or even overcoming some obstacle to realize skinheads are retards. It was basically a teen rebellion experience that he naturally and painlessly grew out of.

I don’t think the guy claimed otherwise in that lecture.

Beltane seems to suggest that he wasnt a “big fish”. He was just a member and later a recruiter, who got involved in some fights - so no big deal.

TED talks introduced few such talks. People who were in Westboro Baptist church, cult members…
https://youtu.be/bVV2Zk88beY

Their stories make people to understand circumstances and motivations. Thats about it. Those stories are not extraordinary, and thats paradoxically the most important thing.

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Posted: 01 May 2018 05:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Here’s the one about a black guy who signs with an alt-right discussion group and pretends to be one of them
https://youtu.be/OqUaEJLfrLo

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Posted: 01 May 2018 06:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Offler - 01 May 2018 04:57 AM
Beltane - 30 April 2018 08:16 PM

Good on Picciolini for moving away from all that, but his story is really boring and unimpressive. He can find a captive audience in nice white liberals who think he was like Derek Vinyard and make some extra money.

This guy was a minor player in a minor crowd in a place that barely had any people different from himself living there, he didn’t do anything “extreme” whatsoever like murder, prison time or even overcoming some obstacle to realize skinheads are retards. It was basically a teen rebellion experience that he naturally and painlessly grew out of.

Also, don’t buy his new book, it’s a rehash of his first one with a new introduction.

Not every skinhead grows out from that. Here in Slovakia they formed a political party and gained some support. So far nobody wants speak with them, they are fringe conspiracy theorists, but they have been put into elected seats…

Well Slovakia is one thing, America is another.

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Posted: 01 May 2018 11:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Beltane - 01 May 2018 06:29 PM
Offler - 01 May 2018 04:57 AM

Not every skinhead grows out from that. Here in Slovakia they formed a political party and gained some support. So far nobody wants speak with them, they are fringe conspiracy theorists, but they have been put into elected seats…

Well Slovakia is one thing, America is another.

Well you did not had a catholic priest to become a head of a puppet fascist regime :D.

Now we have to deal with people who claim it was not a puppet state, that there was prosperity (at cost of 60 000 lives, duh), and that its worth to bring back catholic based corporativism instead of democracy and with people who are trying to separate individuum of Jozef Tiso into “martyr priest killed by communist” (he was executed before communist took power) and politician who was victim of circumstances (which is more realistic approach).

But USA have to deal with the Tea Party and alt-right, and i would suggest that some of their supporters were eiither skinheads or in KKK. And those guys dont have much grip on reality either.

Anyway this reminds me, I am looking for help of a canon lawyer who know about canon law which was in effect during 2nd world war. There is a slight chance that Tiso was automatically excommunicated after he was convicted from war crimes. As you might expect, no canon lawyer is willing to speak with me about the topic.

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Posted: 03 May 2018 02:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Offler - 01 May 2018 11:49 PM

But USA have to deal with the Tea Party and alt-right, and i would suggest that some of their supporters were eiither skinheads or in KKK. And those guys dont have much grip on reality either.

Skinheads and KKK are too few in number to have any effect on American politics, and bigotry here is necessarily much more complex because of the diverse population.

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Posted: 04 May 2018 06:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Offler - 01 May 2018 11:49 PM

Anyway this reminds me, I am looking for help of a canon lawyer who know about canon law which was in effect during 2nd world war. There is a slight chance that Tiso was automatically excommunicated after he was convicted from war crimes. As you might expect, no canon lawyer is willing to speak with me about the topic.

I had to look up what a canon lawyer is. I guess it makes sense; the Catholic Church in history is definitely a governmental organization and not just a religious icon. So, it makes sens they would have law and lawyers.

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Posted: 05 May 2018 03:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Definitely yes. Vatican is de-facto papal state, with postion in UN and its own canonic law.

But when i heard professors Dawkins answer if religion has any meaning in modern world (no it doesnt), i have to say i am not that sure.

Recently I contacted mr. Juraj Smatana who is a well known “mythbuster” in Slovakia. He fights mainly political hoaxes coming from Russia and far-right movements. Few of such hoax is that “migrants are going to flood us” or “multiculturalism is going to destroy our national identity”. Mr. Smatana is not an atheist, he is catholic, and he strongly opposes such hoaxes. When we were talking about it. he mentioned that “Catholic church is one of the first multi-national and multi-cultural organizations” and he uses this fact to contradict far-right movements.  He is not just one believer-antihoaxer around, the other known is mr. Jiří Grygar, who is also a believer.

Those two gentlemen are widely accepted by skeptics (such as myself), and christian believers. They cannot just deny their statements on ground that its a “marxist, leftist atheist something”.

Its interesting… Christian elitists are closing their religion to others - such as migrants, and base their hateful ideas on it. Open-minded christians apparently want to recruit more believers so they dont preach hatred or elitism.

I really would like to know opinion of Daniel Dennett on this, when he spoke about “how to induce a pathology in religion”, because its what i basically see here.

[ Edited: 05 May 2018 03:50 AM by Offler ]
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