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Life out there ?
Posted: 05 May 2018 06:59 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Will we find it ?
Will it find us ?
Does it exist ?

Some of the biggest questions today, If there is life out there will/have develop transmitting equipment that is comparable with ours ? Unlikely

Earth - Hydrogen, oxygen, carbon, nitrogen

Universe - Hydrogen, oxygen, carbon, nitrogen

Like for like, those basic elements crated us so why not any other life form?

Mars had water at some point, we know bacteria is hardy, hundreds of tons Mars rocks that have fallen to earth over the past millions/billions years. what if one or more of those rocks contained some water and bacteria? This combined with other “stuff” hitting earth causing the bacteria to grow (fast forward to fish with legs) = evolution. backed by ALH84001, Inside the ALH84001 carbonates, NASA spotted odd features that resembled very small worm like fossils, the rock formed 4 billion years ago on Mars. It was eventually catapulted into space by an impact and wandered the solar system for millions of years before landing on Earth 13,000 years ago.
I think it would be a hard lesson to learn that we are a alien life form dependent from another planet.

So you could say are we all Martians, sad fact is that all of the other stars/planets/universes are so far apart we may never find another life form.

Please comment your opinions.

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Posted: 05 May 2018 11:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Scientific silhouette - 05 May 2018 06:59 AM

Will we find it ?
Will it find us ?
Does it exist ?

If there is life out there will/have develop transmitting equipment that is comparable with ours ? Unlikely.

Radio waves are radio waves.

I have not heard any SETI people discuss at what distance we could detect our own radio waves with our current level of technology.  100 light years, 200, 500, 1000?

But any species that develops electrical technology will most likely eventually get to radio communication.  It will just be a matter of deciphering the modulation and encoding techniques.  NTSC, PAL?

NTSC == Never Twice the Same Color

But what would be the point of sending a signal to someone 1000 light years away?

[ Edited: 05 May 2018 03:25 PM by psikeyhackr ]
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Posted: 05 May 2018 07:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Scientific silhouette - 05 May 2018 06:59 AM

Will we find it ?
Will it find us ?
Does it exist ?

Some of the biggest questions today, If there is life out there will/have develop transmitting equipment that is comparable with ours ? Unlikely

Earth - Hydrogen, oxygen, carbon, nitrogen

Universe - Hydrogen, oxygen, carbon, nitrogen

Like for like, those basic elements crated us so why not any other life form?

Mars had water at some point, we know bacteria is hardy, hundreds of tons Mars rocks that have fallen to earth over the past millions/billions years. what if one or more of those rocks contained some water and bacteria? This combined with other “stuff” hitting earth causing the bacteria to grow (fast forward to fish with legs) = evolution. backed by ALH84001, Inside the ALH84001 carbonates, NASA spotted odd features that resembled very small worm like fossils, the rock formed 4 billion years ago on Mars. It was eventually catapulted into space by an impact and wandered the solar system for millions of years before landing on Earth 13,000 years ago.
I think it would be a hard lesson to learn that we are a alien life form dependent from another planet.

So you could say are we all Martians, sad fact is that all of the other stars/planets/universes are so far apart we may never find another life form.

Please comment your opinions.

Of course, there has to be life elsewhere in the universe.
This lecture by Robert Hazen explains why it is almost inevitable that life arises given enough time and the basic constituents and environment necessary for the emerge of life. These conditions can be found throughout the universe.

Start the presentation @ 25:10 to avoid a lengthy introduction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlAQLgTwJ_A

[ Edited: 05 May 2018 07:48 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 06 May 2018 09:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Write4U - 05 May 2018 07:45 PM

This lecture by Robert Hazen explains why it is almost inevitable that life arises given enough time and the basic constituents and environment necessary for the emerge of life. These conditions can be found throughout the universe.

Start the presentation @ 25:10 to avoid a lengthy introduction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlAQLgTwJ_A

Yeah baby, now you’re talking.

The introduction to that contains a deep key:

Recent research adds two important insights to this discussion.
First, chance versus necessity is an inherently false dichotomy—a range of probabilities exists for many natural events.
Second, given the astonishing combinatorial chemical richness of early Earth, events that are extremely rare may, nevertheless, be deterministic on time scales of a billion years.

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Posted: 06 May 2018 02:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I think it is probable that simple life forms exist on other worlds but complex, intelligent life like us are very rare. We can’t rule out far off corners of the universe being home to a spacefaring civilization, but I’d bet money we are the only technologically advanced life in this galaxy.

Fermi was on the right track:

The Milky Way contains hundreds of billions of stars, and billions of them are similar to the sun.
It is highly likely that some of these stars will have planets that are similar to Earth.
If we assume – via the Copernican principle – that Earth is not particularly special, then intelligent life should also exist on some fraction of these Earth-like planets.
Some of these intelligent life-forms might develop advanced technology, and even interstellar travel.
Interstellar travel would take a long time, but as there are many sun-like stars that are billions of years older, there has been plenty of time for such travel to have occurred.
Given all this, why haven’t we met or seen any trace of aliens? Where is everybody?

https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/what-is-the-fermi-paradox

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Posted: 06 May 2018 04:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Beltane - 06 May 2018 02:15 PM

that Earth is not particularly special,

Actually, Earth is very special, with its disciplined sun, it’s huge moon, Jupiter, not to mention it’s location in our galaxy’s spiral arm and our solar systems neighbors.  After that you need to factor in Earth’s evolutionary sequence with it’s many freak events that hugely impacted future evolution, gets vanishingly thin.  Not impossible but very very thin.

Here’s a look at the closest thing we’ve found that may harbor life, but given it’s sun, it hard to think of advanced life developing there.

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/2017/20171115-ross-128b.html
European scientists announced today the discovery of a world orbiting nearby star Ross 128. The planet, named Ross 128 b, has a predicted temperature range that could allow liquid water to exist on the surface. Ross 128 b is now the second-closest such world to Earth; only Proxima Centauri b, at 4.25 light years away, is closer. ...

Ross 128 b falls into this scenario. The parent star is a red dwarf, meaning it’s low in mass and barely half the Sun’s temperature. Ross 128 b is 20 times closer to its star than Earth, taking a mere 9.9 days to complete one orbit. But the star’s low temperature should give the planet a temperature between -60 and 20 degrees Celsius (-76 to 68 degrees Fahrenheit). That plausibly puts it in the habitable zone, but scientists can’t yet pin down its vital signs with certainty. ...

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Posted: 09 May 2018 10:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Beltane - 06 May 2018 02:15 PM

I think it is probable that simple life forms exist on other worlds but complex, intelligent life like us are very rare. We can’t rule out far off corners of the universe being home to a spacefaring civilization, but I’d bet money we are the only technologically advanced life in this galaxy.

Fermi was on the right track:

The Milky Way contains hundreds of billions of stars, and billions of them are similar to the sun.
It is highly likely that some of these stars will have planets that are similar to Earth.
If we assume – via the Copernican principle – that Earth is not particularly special, then intelligent life should also exist on some fraction of these Earth-like planets.
Some of these intelligent life-forms might develop advanced technology, and even interstellar travel.
Interstellar travel would take a long time, but as there are many sun-like stars that are billions of years older, there has been plenty of time for such travel to have occurred.
Given all this, why haven’t we met or seen any trace of aliens? Where is everybody?

https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/what-is-the-fermi-paradox

As smart as Fermi was, he seems to have lacked imagination. And was kind of arrogant too, just judging by this quote. Kind of arogant to think a) that they want to meet us at all. Humanity is primitive. Why would any advanced civilization ever want to dirty themselves mingling with a bunch of dumb hairless apes. And b) kind of arrogant to think an advanced civilization is constrained by our current level of understanding of physics. That’s like the early Europeans declaring “we will never be visited by people from other continents because horses can’t swim”.

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Posted: 09 May 2018 11:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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CuthbertJ - 09 May 2018 10:17 AM
Beltane - 06 May 2018 02:15 PM

I think it is probable that simple life forms exist on other worlds but complex, intelligent life like us are very rare. We can’t rule out far off corners of the universe being home to a spacefaring civilization, but I’d bet money we are the only technologically advanced life in this galaxy.

Fermi was on the right track:

The Milky Way contains hundreds of billions of stars, and billions of them are similar to the sun.
It is highly likely that some of these stars will have planets that are similar to Earth.
If we assume – via the Copernican principle – that Earth is not particularly special, then intelligent life should also exist on some fraction of these Earth-like planets.
Some of these intelligent life-forms might develop advanced technology, and even interstellar travel.
Interstellar travel would take a long time, but as there are many sun-like stars that are billions of years older, there has been plenty of time for such travel to have occurred.
Given all this, why haven’t we met or seen any trace of aliens? Where is everybody?

https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/what-is-the-fermi-paradox

As smart as Fermi was, he seems to have lacked imagination. And was kind of arrogant too, just judging by this quote. Kind of arogant to think a) that they want to meet us at all. Humanity is primitive. Why would any advanced civilization ever want to dirty themselves mingling with a bunch of dumb hairless apes. And b) kind of arrogant to think an advanced civilization is constrained by our current level of understanding of physics. That’s like the early Europeans declaring “we will never be visited by people from other continents because horses can’t swim”.

On the one hand, that is my favorite theory of why we haven’t found other intelligent, it’s intelligent enough to not contact us and it knows how to hide from us. On the other hand, assuming higher intelligence also should increase the likelihood of contact. Unless you assume greater benevolence and ethics come with higher intelligence.

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Posted: 09 May 2018 12:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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CuthbertJ - 09 May 2018 10:17 AM
Beltane - 06 May 2018 02:15 PM

I think it is probable that simple life forms exist on other worlds but complex, intelligent life like us are very rare. We can’t rule out far off corners of the universe being home to a spacefaring civilization, but I’d bet money we are the only technologically advanced life in this galaxy.

Fermi was on the right track:

The Milky Way contains hundreds of billions of stars, and billions of them are similar to the sun.
It is highly likely that some of these stars will have planets that are similar to Earth.
If we assume – via the Copernican principle – that Earth is not particularly special, then intelligent life should also exist on some fraction of these Earth-like planets.
Some of these intelligent life-forms might develop advanced technology, and even interstellar travel.
Interstellar travel would take a long time, but as there are many sun-like stars that are billions of years older, there has been plenty of time for such travel to have occurred.
Given all this, why haven’t we met or seen any trace of aliens? Where is everybody?

https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/what-is-the-fermi-paradox

As smart as Fermi was, he seems to have lacked imagination. And was kind of arrogant too, just judging by this quote. Kind of arogant to think a) that they want to meet us at all. Humanity is primitive. Why would any advanced civilization ever want to dirty themselves mingling with a bunch of dumb hairless apes. And b) kind of arrogant to think an advanced civilization is constrained by our current level of understanding of physics. That’s like the early Europeans declaring “we will never be visited by people from other continents because horses can’t swim”.

I think Fermi was mainly referring to the lack of physical evidence that a technologically advanced civilization would inevitably produce, rather than lack of interest in us from the aliens.

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Posted: 09 May 2018 03:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Lausten said,
On the one hand, that is my favorite theory of why we haven’t found other intelligent, it’s intelligent enough to not contact us and it knows how to hide from us. On the other hand, assuming higher intelligence also should increase the likelihood of contact. Unless you assume greater benevolence and ethics come with higher intelligence.

I agree with that.

Human technology has far outgrown our ability to apply it wisely and with aforethought of “long term” consequences.

As is so often mentioned in Star Trek, “do not interfere with technology of (relative) primitive species”.

Thus, if we are being studied by a more advanced off-world species, we’d probably never know.

[ Edited: 09 May 2018 03:36 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 10 May 2018 10:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Beltane - 09 May 2018 12:32 PM
CuthbertJ - 09 May 2018 10:17 AM
Beltane - 06 May 2018 02:15 PM

I think it is probable that simple life forms exist on other worlds but complex, intelligent life like us are very rare. We can’t rule out far off corners of the universe being home to a spacefaring civilization, but I’d bet money we are the only technologically advanced life in this galaxy.

Fermi was on the right track:

The Milky Way contains hundreds of billions of stars, and billions of them are similar to the sun.
It is highly likely that some of these stars will have planets that are similar to Earth.
If we assume – via the Copernican principle – that Earth is not particularly special, then intelligent life should also exist on some fraction of these Earth-like planets.
Some of these intelligent life-forms might develop advanced technology, and even interstellar travel.
Interstellar travel would take a long time, but as there are many sun-like stars that are billions of years older, there has been plenty of time for such travel to have occurred.
Given all this, why haven’t we met or seen any trace of aliens? Where is everybody?

https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/what-is-the-fermi-paradox

As smart as Fermi was, he seems to have lacked imagination. And was kind of arrogant too, just judging by this quote. Kind of arogant to think a) that they want to meet us at all. Humanity is primitive. Why would any advanced civilization ever want to dirty themselves mingling with a bunch of dumb hairless apes. And b) kind of arrogant to think an advanced civilization is constrained by our current level of understanding of physics. That’s like the early Europeans declaring “we will never be visited by people from other continents because horses can’t swim”.

I think Fermi was mainly referring to the lack of physical evidence that a technologically advanced civilization would inevitably produce, rather than lack of interest in us from the aliens.

What type of physical evidence was he talking about? Junk they accidently left on earth during visits? Gigantic built planets observable from earth? Spacecraft contrials? Not disputing what you’re saying, asking for more info.

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Posted: 10 May 2018 04:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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CuthbertJ - 10 May 2018 10:25 AM
Beltane - 09 May 2018 12:32 PM
CuthbertJ - 09 May 2018 10:17 AM
Beltane - 06 May 2018 02:15 PM

I think it is probable that simple life forms exist on other worlds but complex, intelligent life like us are very rare. We can’t rule out far off corners of the universe being home to a spacefaring civilization, but I’d bet money we are the only technologically advanced life in this galaxy.

Fermi was on the right track:

The Milky Way contains hundreds of billions of stars, and billions of them are similar to the sun.
It is highly likely that some of these stars will have planets that are similar to Earth.
If we assume – via the Copernican principle – that Earth is not particularly special, then intelligent life should also exist on some fraction of these Earth-like planets.
Some of these intelligent life-forms might develop advanced technology, and even interstellar travel.
Interstellar travel would take a long time, but as there are many sun-like stars that are billions of years older, there has been plenty of time for such travel to have occurred.
Given all this, why haven’t we met or seen any trace of aliens? Where is everybody?

https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/what-is-the-fermi-paradox

As smart as Fermi was, he seems to have lacked imagination. And was kind of arrogant too, just judging by this quote. Kind of arogant to think a) that they want to meet us at all. Humanity is primitive. Why would any advanced civilization ever want to dirty themselves mingling with a bunch of dumb hairless apes. And b) kind of arrogant to think an advanced civilization is constrained by our current level of understanding of physics. That’s like the early Europeans declaring “we will never be visited by people from other continents because horses can’t swim”.

I think Fermi was mainly referring to the lack of physical evidence that a technologically advanced civilization would inevitably produce, rather than lack of interest in us from the aliens.

What type of physical evidence was he talking about? Junk they accidently left on earth during visits? Gigantic built planets observable from earth? Spacecraft contrials? Not disputing what you’re saying, asking for more info.

The main thing would be electromagnetic waves.

As Psykihackr posted earlier any technologically advanced civilization would unavoidably produce electromagnetic waves as a byproduct, and these waves seem to travel through space at light speed forever. A Milky Way centered civilization that began eons before us would’ve created EM waves that would be detectable by our technology at this point — even if they weren’t spacefaring.

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Posted: 10 May 2018 04:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Beltane - 10 May 2018 04:03 PM

The main thing would be electromagnetic waves.

As Psykihackr posted earlier any technologically advanced civilization would unavoidably produce electromagnetic waves as a byproduct, and these waves seem to travel through space at light speed forever. A Milky Way centered civilization that began eons before us would’ve created EM waves that would be detectable by our technology at this point — even if they weren’t spacefaring.

At what range?

With our current technology could we detect our current transmissions at 20,000 light-years distance?

Would it require a parabolic dish?  How would we know the right direction to point the dish?

psik

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Posted: 10 May 2018 08:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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psikeyhackr - 10 May 2018 04:46 PM
Beltane - 10 May 2018 04:03 PM

The main thing would be electromagnetic waves.

As Psykihackr posted earlier any technologically advanced civilization would unavoidably produce electromagnetic waves as a byproduct, and these waves seem to travel through space at light speed forever. A Milky Way centered civilization that began eons before us would’ve created EM waves that would be detectable by our technology at this point — even if they weren’t spacefaring.

At what range?

With our current technology could we detect our current transmissions at 20,000 light-years distance?

Would it require a parabolic dish?  How would we know the right direction to point the dish?

psik

The devil is in the details,

“... thanks to the inverse square law. In Layman’s term, it’s a form of signal degradation.

As radio signals leave earth, they propagate out in a wave form. Just like dropping a stone in a lake, the waves diffuse or “spread out” over distance thanks to the exponentially larger area they must encompass. The area can be calculated by multiplying length times width which is why we measure it in square units – square centimeters, square miles, etc.

This means that the further away from the source, the more square units of area a signal has to ‘illuminate’. ...”

source:
How Far Have Our Radio Signals Traveled From Earth?
ByZidbits - Published on July 26, 2011
https://zidbits.com/2011/07/how-far-have-radio-signals-traveled-from-earth/

      cheese

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Posted: 11 May 2018 10:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Beltane - 10 May 2018 04:03 PM
CuthbertJ - 10 May 2018 10:25 AM
Beltane - 09 May 2018 12:32 PM
CuthbertJ - 09 May 2018 10:17 AM
Beltane - 06 May 2018 02:15 PM

I think it is probable that simple life forms exist on other worlds but complex, intelligent life like us are very rare. We can’t rule out far off corners of the universe being home to a spacefaring civilization, but I’d bet money we are the only technologically advanced life in this galaxy.

Fermi was on the right track:

The Milky Way contains hundreds of billions of stars, and billions of them are similar to the sun.
It is highly likely that some of these stars will have planets that are similar to Earth.
If we assume – via the Copernican principle – that Earth is not particularly special, then intelligent life should also exist on some fraction of these Earth-like planets.
Some of these intelligent life-forms might develop advanced technology, and even interstellar travel.
Interstellar travel would take a long time, but as there are many sun-like stars that are billions of years older, there has been plenty of time for such travel to have occurred.
Given all this, why haven’t we met or seen any trace of aliens? Where is everybody?

https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/what-is-the-fermi-paradox

As smart as Fermi was, he seems to have lacked imagination. And was kind of arrogant too, just judging by this quote. Kind of arogant to think a) that they want to meet us at all. Humanity is primitive. Why would any advanced civilization ever want to dirty themselves mingling with a bunch of dumb hairless apes. And b) kind of arrogant to think an advanced civilization is constrained by our current level of understanding of physics. That’s like the early Europeans declaring “we will never be visited by people from other continents because horses can’t swim”.

I think Fermi was mainly referring to the lack of physical evidence that a technologically advanced civilization would inevitably produce, rather than lack of interest in us from the aliens.

What type of physical evidence was he talking about? Junk they accidently left on earth during visits? Gigantic built planets observable from earth? Spacecraft contrials? Not disputing what you’re saying, asking for more info.

The main thing would be electromagnetic waves.

As Psykihackr posted earlier any technologically advanced civilization would unavoidably produce electromagnetic waves as a byproduct, and these waves seem to travel through space at light speed forever. A Milky Way centered civilization that began eons before us would’ve created EM waves that would be detectable by our technology at this point — even if they weren’t spacefaring.

True, but still many variables. Maybe they were detectable but long before we had the ability to detect them. Maybe by the time we were able to detect them they’d moved beyond EM or were able to mask/catch them. All kinds of possibilities.

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Posted: 11 May 2018 12:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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psikeyhackr - 10 May 2018 04:46 PM
Beltane - 10 May 2018 04:03 PM

The main thing would be electromagnetic waves.

As Psykihackr posted earlier any technologically advanced civilization would unavoidably produce electromagnetic waves as a byproduct, and these waves seem to travel through space at light speed forever. A Milky Way centered civilization that began eons before us would’ve created EM waves that would be detectable by our technology at this point — even if they weren’t spacefaring.

At what range?

With our current technology could we detect our current transmissions at 20,000 light-years distance?

Would it require a parabolic dish?  How would we know the right direction to point the dish?

psik

Thats all above my pay grade.

As far as I know we are able to detect “background noise” from outside the Milky Way so anything coming from inside the galaxy would be noticed without much effort.

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