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Religious Feelings
Posted: 22 April 2007 05:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Churchs are part of the evolved theater of religion. Centuries of art and architecture channeled into joining the kinds of emotions we’re talking about and religion. I grew up with an angry ex-Catholic, but we both still love the mass as theater, especialy the old-fashioned kind. And all those old churches in Europe just cry out for kneeling and singing. For so many centuries art was monopolized by the Catholic Church, that it is undeniable that religion has been the focus of much of the greatest of Western art. And it’s natural that such art and architecture and ritual should be appealing even to those of us not buying into the ideology behind it, since so much of the artistic expression of the “spiritual” feelings we experience was monopolized by the Church for so long.

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Posted: 22 April 2007 08:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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[quote author=“Mriana”]
Technically, Occam, you and Doubter’s “religious section” of your brains have not been destroyed, because that section does not really exist.  It’s just chemical reactions in the brain to various stimuli. 

I was being deliberately obtuse :wink:
New Scientist did a great article on religiousocity and the brain a couple of years back. Worth a search through some back issues.

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Posted: 08 May 2007 11:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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Doubter, I love to read that New Scientist thing. Are you able to find out a search word that allow us to get a link to that text?

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Posted: 08 May 2007 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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[quote author=“Brennen”]Rituals are theatrical productions that have been refined by time and practice to tap into such feelings, and they have lots of psychological value. Problem is, the traditional ones are all tied into nonsensical supernatural ideologies, and the manufactured ones just don’t have the power (sorry, but Christmas beats Humanlight for me every time, despite my lack of any shred of Christian belief). I suspect, though I couldn’t prove it, that most people need some organized, traditional, communal structure to help organize the significance of such feelings a moments. That’s why I tend to support the subversion and secularisation of religion rather than it’s outright overthrow.

I agree very much with that. You and I are on opposite side when it comes to buddhism though.

Rituals is an interesting subject. Roy Rappaport wrote a highly technical book about how rituals makes humanity according to him. Sadly his prose is so english that me who are not a native user of E. has a hard time following him or even citing or quoting him.

But he studied the role of rituals all over the world for his whole life as an anthropologist with religious practice among tribes as speciality if I get it. there is a wiki about him.

As I remember the book by him I read he claims rituals are rather powerful but natural while many religions claim they are supernatural ways of connecting to the holy.

Maybe rituals was a byproduct or they could be very basic to us as social animals. Even animals have rituals but on another level but it seems to be a very basic body language of how to relate and how to display what the hierarchy is and ones place in it and how much one submit to the powers to be. That seems very natural to me. Even animals do such displays.

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Posted: 08 May 2007 03:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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[quote author=“Doubter”][quote author=“Mriana”]
Technically, Occam, you and Doubter’s “religious section” of your brains have not been destroyed, because that section does not really exist.  It’s just chemical reactions in the brain to various stimuli. 

I was being deliberately obtuse :wink:
New Scientist did a great article on religiousocity and the brain a couple of years back. Worth a search through some back issues.

Oh.  It’s hard to tell sometimes on a board.

I’d like to read the article too, but don’t have time to search for it currenly.

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Posted: 08 May 2007 06:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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I did a very brief google, I’m in a hurry. I found these likely.
 

or this commentary about the most likely one
 

or could it be this one?
 

Could Doubter or someone confirm if this is the referred NS text?

 

I could be wrong though.

Here is two other interesting texts to ponder. smile

 

 

God on the Brain by Caroline Troein that text rhymes with what Doubter mention also cause it is a New Scientist text.

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Posted: 08 May 2007 08:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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[quote author=“wordy”]
Could Doubter or someone confirm if this is the referred NS text?

Confirmed :D
Though I thought it was more recent than that. Time warp with age rolleyes

What caught my eye was the reference to temporal lobe epilepsy which is a condition my wife has.

I believe that such things as synchronicity,  proustian memory etc are similarly related.  It is all has to do with the significance we place upon certain feelings and events.

I also believe that we live in parallel streams of reality that sometimes get crossed into our naive conscious reality. If so inclined we may feel that these things come from somewhere beyond us, eg the supernatural.

If we can perceive it then it must be a natural phenomena.

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Posted: 09 May 2007 08:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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I can relate some to this otherworldly experience as before I got on my current medecine, I had a feeling of impending doom that someting was after me.But I knew it was merely my own brain states.So, is the oceanic feeling a brain state,not a manifestation of God. It would violate the razor to bring God in as the author of those states as mere natural causes explains them without recourse to an outside mind as one no more has need to invoke demon possession for mental conditions as I well know. It takes emotions to reach the supernaturalist and the paranormalist as mere science and philosophy are inadequate for most folk.Those two transcendent fictions help some to get through life but one should dispense with them for reality. Of course, people comparamenatalize so they can be transcendentalists and realists from minute to the next. We would like for all to be consistently rational, but it is so hard for so many to give up those fictions.[ See Paul Kurtz’s “The Transcendent Temptation,which should have a larger audience in the wake ofpublic enthusiasm of the new atheists’ works.] But there is hope as secularization and atheism spread in Europe!

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Fr. Griggs rests in his Socratic ignorance and humble naturalism.He might be wrong!His cognitive defects might impact his posting. Logic is the bane of theists.‘Religion is mythinformation.“Reason saves, not that fanatic Galilean!
  ’ Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate purpose.”

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