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You just can’t win against a believer.
Posted: 22 August 2007 04:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
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AlbanyDave - 29 April 2007 11:49 AM

Define winning

You cannot win against a believer.
You cannnot win against a non-believer.
Why try to win at all?


I used to try and argue my point of view with the nuts that came to my door, always in pairs, sometimes dragging a child along with them. Try to show them that their belief was just that, belief without any evidence. To believe in something that we have no proof of existed in the first place is madness. etc
But is was always fruitless, now I just open the door and say “I am an Athjeist, bugger off.”

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Posted: 22 August 2007 09:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
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Holely Goat - 20 August 2007 01:17 PM

Yesterday a minister friend of mine said to proclaim you are an atheist is a statement of faith as much as the statement of saying “I believe in God” or you say “I do not believe in God” therefore atheism is indeed a religion.

Ah, once again we come up against the definition of the word “religion”.  If this is true, then stating that you believe (or don’t believe) anything makes it a religion!  “I believe that my name is Tom”—that’s a Religion!  wink

When they want to attack atheism, they are willing to define “religion” in incredibly broad terms indeed.  On the other hand, when they want to talk about the good that religion and spirituality does, then suddenly the definition gets really, really narrow again.

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Posted: 22 August 2007 11:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
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I am reading a great book at the moment by Christopher Hitchens, God is not Great, and here is something from the book that is worth passing on, a quotation from Edward Gibbon’s Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.

The various forms of worship, which prevails in the Roman world were all considered by the people to be equally true,by the philosophers as equally false, and by the magistrates, as equally usefull.

I think nothing has changed.

Alan.

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Posted: 31 August 2007 04:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
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I don’t hear much god-talk and I keep quiet when I do. It is just recently that a niece found my posts on the web and a brother found out about my naturalism.They haven’t spread the word. On the web, people debate their notions on God, willing to confront others. So, I respond. I do not care to take the hassle in regular life.Perhaps, there would not be much.

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Fr. Griggs rests in his Socratic ignorance and humble naturalism.He might be wrong!His cognitive defects might impact his posting. Logic is the bane of theists.‘Religion is mythinformation.“Reason saves, not that fanatic Galilean!
  ’ Life is its own validation and reward and ultimate purpose.”

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Posted: 31 August 2007 07:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
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The person who challenged “Define win” suggests a good point. Winning implies victory, and defeat on the other side. Don’t think of it as winning. Think of it as success. You can’t win in the sense of convincing a die-hard theist. (I don’t call them believers. We are all believers. Some of us just don’t believe in things that are not so, and especially not in sheer nonsense.) What you can do is plant a seed. Plant it and be content, then close the door.

If the door-knockers really offend you, and they’ve come with children in tow, I have a cure. “Those are lovely children, and I’m sure you love them very much. Why are you telling them things that simply are not true? And why would you frighten them with stories about a supposedly loving god who has a hell waiting for them if they don’t measure up? You see, I believe you are damaging those beautiful children, and because I love them as I love all people, it pains me to see it. You think about that, have a good day, and come back someday if you’re really prepared to discuss these matters with an open mind and a respect for other points of view.”

It won’t convince them in that moment, but I guarantee you they’ll be listening, they’ll be mad as hell, and they’ll be talking to their kids. The kids, in turn, will see what love really looks like if you do it with kindness and a real spirit of Love; they’ll also see the fear and defensiveness in their parents’ response. And I doubt those same people will bother you again unless you’ve managed to open their minds.

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I cannot in good conscience support CFI under the current leadership. I am here in dissent and in support of a Humanism that honors and respects everyone.

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Posted: 31 August 2007 08:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
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skeptic griggsy - 31 August 2007 04:11 AM

I don’t hear much god-talk and I keep quiet when I do. It is just recently that a niece found my posts on the web and a brother found out about my naturalism.They haven’t spread the word. On the web, people debate their notions on God, willing to confront others. So, I respond. I do not care to take the hassle in regular life.Perhaps, there would not be much.

Obviously you don’t live in the Bible Belt.  To say nothing when asked, “Are you saved?” is to be an atheist and then you get preached at.  rolleyes  My older son puts on this spawn of Satan act when some of his classmates go into their lame routine, “You’d be much happier if you were a Christian….”  I think it is halarious and he says his classmates tell him to cut it out and he says in his Spawn of Satan voice, “I’m not (insert his RL name).  He’s not here anymore! etc etc”  I’m telling you, it’s a riot!

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“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 31 August 2007 08:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
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skeptic griggsy - 31 August 2007 04:11 AM

I don’t hear much god-talk and I keep quiet when I do. It is just recently that a niece found my posts on the web and a brother found out about my naturalism.They haven’t spread the word. On the web, people debate their notions on God, willing to confront others. So, I respond. I do not care to take the hassle in regular life.Perhaps, there would not be much.

Obviously you don’t live in the Bible Belt.  To say nothing when asked, “Are you saved?” is to be an atheist and then you get preached at.  rolleyes  My older son puts on this spawn of Satan act when some of his classmates go into their lame routine, “You’d be much happier if you were a Christian….”  I think it is halarious and he says his classmates tell him to cut it out and he says in his Spawn of Satan voice, “I’m not (insert his RL name).  He’s not here anymore! etc etc”  I’m telling you, it’s a riot!

However, I have been debating this one Fundie on another site and in her last post she said she really didn’t know what dogma was and really wasn’t interested in debating whether or not the non-religious can have moral values or not.  I decided not to respond to her anymore, in part because I don’t care anymore, I’m tired of her stupidity and ignorance, and I tired of her.  I figure if she is that insecure about her beliefs that she has to argue with me about my rants that have nothing to do with her, but rather other fundies, as being “not true”, as well as speak from her minister’s mouth, then she really doesn’t have any security about her own beliefs, so why bother going around in circles with her.  She can’t handle the truth obviously, so why bother continuing the debate.  She needs a REAL theological/religious education if she doesn’t know what dogma is.  Anything that blows what has been told her, she has to jump in and say something.  rolleyes

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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