[size=18:4c710a5bc8][color=green:4c710a5bc8]In another thread I posted this comment:

[quote:4c710a5bc8]It is true that the conservative religionist commentators Coulter, O’Reilly, Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Chris Matthews, and others are very reluctant to appear in ANY, emphasize ANY arena they do not control. Why would they? Even if treated with kid gloves there is no upside as far as they are concerned.
Assume one would appear here
If we treat whoever it is that deigns to appear in this forum very sweetly and that person leaves feeling he/she has made us feel good about him/her of what benefit is that to that person? I’ll answer - none at all.

Those personalities are extremely successful doing it their way. they are always in total control of the buttons (on off and cut off) on their shows. Sam Harris is someone I admire, greatly. I listened to his appearance eon the Coulter radio show. She did not give him time to respond to any of her questions. He was reduced to asking her whether she’d feel the same if it was Zeus. He got great exposure from his appearance on her show so it was worth the abuse.

They gain nothing by coming into our playground. If Limbaugh were to expose himself to the members of this forum on almost any topic he’d come out the major loser. Why would he want to risk that.
As I said even if treated with kid gloves so that he leaves the interview appearing to be the intellectual giant he is in his own mind what has he gained?[/quote:4c710a5bc8]
And Albany Dave said the following in part:
[quote:4c710a5bc8]Yeah, he lived before TV, but there was just as much spin in ancient Athens as there is in modern Washington. And if we are to create an institutional change in American thought, it is not to be done except through the bravery required of those who face their opponents on equal ground, unarmed save for their reason, trusting that reason alone is all they’ll ever need.

Don’t be afraid. Fight the good fight with your head held high, and show the world that reason can and does triumph ultimately over fear and delusion.[/quote:4c710a5bc8]
[/color:4c710a5bc8][color=green:4c710a5bc8]Now what do you think? Are we preaching to the choir? Does anyone ever listen to reason who really believes? and how should the battle be fought? Nice Nice or lets have at it? Is all the effort I for one am putting out to affect the right of government to use churches as polling places worth it?
Jim[/color:4c710a5bc8][/size:4c710a5bc8]

I think in some ways we are and some ways we aren’t.  I have gotten entangled more than once someone who appears to be on the Religious Reich side, not to mention one who really was, and it always seems to blow up that board.  I have been called an atheist (big deal ), a heretic (who cares ), an infidel (whatever ), anti-Christian, anti-religious, stupid idiot, the list goes on an on.

The thing is, when people get like that over religion they just prove Harris’s point and I have pointed that out to them many times when they start in on me like that.  “You know, it’s behaviour like that that turns people off religion and proves Sam Harris’s point.”  That just gets them more irrate and for what?  I don’t get it, but if that shoe fits…

Pointing out some things to the religious extremists concerning their behaviours I think is good, but when it gets into a battle it’s time to back off a bit.  It maybe whimping out, but I think we should also stand by our words of non-violence too- be it verbal or physical.

Of course, if we always back off when they start to get verbally violent, then it may seem like we are intimidated, so there are times we also need to stand up to the verbal abuse too, but in a non-violent way.  The problem is the cases, like the one presented in Humanist News Network where people who were non-religious were passing out flyers for a good cause and were beaten for it.  That is when we should take civil action- like the court system.