Taner Edis podcast on Islam
Posted: 01 May 2007 10:26 AM   [ Ignore ]
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I listened to DJ’s interview with Taner Edis and came away with a profound realization. When DJ asked about the chances for an Islamic reformation Prof Edis told him that [b:d593d6446f]Western secularism has been deeply descredited throughout the Muslim world[/b:d593d6446f], thanks to its association with (post) colonialist exploitation, war, theft, support for dictaturships, and the import of dubious pop culture that effectively undermines and destroys traditional values (he may not have mentioned that last point but it’s valid).
This sounds true, and will indeed prove a big hurdle.

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Posted: 01 May 2007 10:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Taner Edis podcast on Islam

I listened to DJ’s interview with Taner Edis and came away with a profound realization. When DJ asked about the chances for an Islamic reformation Prof Edis told him that Western secularism has been deeply descredited throughout the Muslim world, thanks to its association with (post) colonialist exploitation, war, theft, support for dictaturships, and the import of dubious pop culture that effectively undermines and destroys traditional values (he may not have mentioned that last point but it’s valid).
This sounds true, and will indeed prove a big hurdle.

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Posted: 01 May 2007 10:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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It certainly makes sense that this would be the case. Without denying that Islam itself has, like most religions, some inherent problems of its own, for some reason Americans always seem shocked to find that we are dislike or our values not warmly embraced elsewhere in the world. Only a deep-seated ignorance of history and foreign policy can, IMHO, explain this reaction. After all the support we gave to Sadam Hussein in Iraq and the Shah in Iran, as only two simple examples, it is not surprising that anti-Western ideologies find such widespread acceptance in that part of the world, even if they do not serve the people especially well themselves.

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Posted: 01 May 2007 11:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Well argued. But I had failed to notice that in the minds of the people at the other end of our stick, both secularism - which I naively held to be a ‘neutral’ position - and post-colonial exploitation merged into one.

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Posted: 08 May 2007 03:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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The rumor of hijackers turning out to be alive is garbage, and so is your claim about supposed new insights and research on 9/11 being an inside job. I’ve monitored the 9/11 conspiracies for a while and stopped doing so half a year ago: it’s all a rehashing of discarded suspicions that have long since been debunked. There’s a reason why people with real expertise in the matters at hand are nowhere to be found in this ‘movement’: they are unconvinced by the amateurisch guesswork by people without a clue about the rules of evidence or physics. Just because our current regime is evil to the core and consists of warmongers, morons, industry stooges and bootlickers does not suggest they pulled off such a ploy - especially not when the same mayhem could have been achived with simpler means more cleanly. Instead the 9/11 day had a wing of the Pentagon in ruins and southern Manhattan, not showing the government at its most capable or efficient.

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Posted: 08 May 2007 03:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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[quote author=“moreover”] it’s all a rehashing of discarded suspicions that have long since been debunked.

debunked by whom?(’:twisted:’)

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Posted: 08 May 2007 04:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Moreover is absolutely right. It’s been debunked HERE and HERE , just to begin with.

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Posted: 08 May 2007 04:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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There are a number of publications and websites that address the bulk of the conspiracy theory elements point by point. Those who want to believe in a conspiracy tend to claim “they’re in on it”, are “co-conspirators”, “do the government’s work” and are “traitors”. The problem with that broad brush is that it’s not an argument, unlike the material put forth by those supposed traitors.

There are two basic approaches to gaining knowledge.
1) you start with a favored assumption and gather supporting evidence to the exclusion of material that contradicts it.
2) you investigate an incident, prioritizing scenarios according to how (un)likely they are, progressing from simple explanations to more intricate ones only when the simple ones no longer suffice to explain the facts. In that process lots of ideas get tossed out as unsupported.

Somehow, that tossing out never seems to happen in the case of the conspiracy crowd, they never care to check, and stuff that has been shown to be utter nonsense still circulates as ‘new research’.

That said, it’s no secret that the gov’t tried to hamper the investigation where it would have shown its failures leading up to the attack and its in part poor handling of the situation afterward.

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Posted: 08 May 2007 05:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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[quote author=“moreover”]That said, it’s no secret that the gov’t tried to hamper the investigation where it would have shown its failures leading up to the attack and its in part poor handling of the situation afterward.

Quite so.

But if we want to discuss this issue it’s best done in a separate thread in the proper folder, rather than getting this thread more off-track.

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