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Stargate, the Ori, Christianity, and Religion in Scince Fiction in General
Posted: 13 June 2007 10:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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logicisrefreshing - 11 June 2007 10:59 AM

By the way, if there happens to be any Babylon 5 fans out there, does anyone happen to know if J. Michael Straczynski is an atheist?

I’m pretty sure he at least claimed to be an atheist once.  I liked the end of the series, when Sheridan made that speech saying essentially that he was fed up with the whole Good (Vorlons) vs. Evil (Shadows) thing, and from now on, Mankind was going to think for itself.  Pure Humanism, if you ask me.

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Posted: 13 June 2007 12:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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IIRC, Straczynski is an atheist. BTW, I’m a big Babylon 5 fan ... it’s been awhile though.

Remember that the Vorlons manipulated human history by genetic engineering—by making us believe in religious symbols and memes. (And that the Vorlons looked like angels to us as a result!)

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Posted: 13 June 2007 03:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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I just watched the first NINE seasons of Stargate SG-1 this year and found it so inspiring for all the parallels.  To me, the Ori plot is so so similar to christianity in that you believe or you go to hell (you die).  The Go’auld plot, I thought, represented a different part of religious oppression, and was equally thought-provoking to me.  It did seem a lot more complex than the Ori plot - different agendas and so on.  But what with the end of the world propaganda and the ‘push’ to convert the world, the Ori plot seems relatable to me as well.  Especially how the priors are so ignorant of the true agenda, in the same way I think many authorities in churches may feel as though they have just cause and act in similar ways.  Religion claims to cure fears, but it ends up having to create fears first - and it does a much better job at creating than alleviating them.  i think this is a paraphrase of a Freud quote….
anyways, the priors have the job of going out and drumming up the fear smile  Love the show though I haven’t seen season 10 yet.  We don’t subscribe to any television, so we have to wait until the DVD’s come out!  I just love good allegory’s though!  I find this kind of stuff really gets me thinking.
I DIE FREE!  LOL I’ve thought about getting a tattoo.  Love that stuff.

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JF

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Posted: 13 June 2007 11:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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advocatus - 13 June 2007 10:12 AM
logicisrefreshing - 11 June 2007 10:59 AM

By the way, if there happens to be any Babylon 5 fans out there, does anyone happen to know if J. Michael Straczynski is an atheist?

I’m pretty sure he at least claimed to be an atheist once.  I liked the end of the series, when Sheridan made that speech saying essentially that he was fed up with the whole Good (Vorlons) vs. Evil (Shadows) thing, and from now on, Mankind was going to think for itself.  Pure Humanism, if you ask me.

That’s not the end of the series! That’s barely half-way through season 4! There was a whole other war and fifth season!

Yeah, I sort of suspected that he didn’t mean faith in God by “Faith manages.”

I was sort of suspicious because the Shadows were basically social darwinists, which isn’t exactly the same as darwinism, but they were the evil ones in the series. But, like I said, there’s a difference between social darwinism and evolution.

I really like the idea of not choosing between the Order and Chaos thing. It seemed more balanced… more ethical. The whole theme with the world being painted in shades of grey throughout the series was extremely appealing to me. A lot less dualist.

I wonder what a Humanist would see if they looked at a Vorlon.  tongue laugh

Can’t wait until July 31 when the new Babylon 5 movie comes out on DVD.

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1. God is omnipotent.
Source: Several incidents where I’ve annoyed fundamentalist Christians by challenging God’s power.
2. If God is omnipotent then he can travel faster than the speed of light.
Modus Ponens
3. Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light.
Source: Einstein
Therefore, God is nothing.
QED

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Posted: 15 June 2007 09:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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logicisrefreshing - 13 June 2007 11:39 PM

That’s not the end of the series! That’s barely half-way through season 4! There was a whole other war and fifth season!

Oops!  I guess I have to confess that I sort of lost interest in the series around season 3, and followed it only sporatically after that.

I got a lot of mixed signals from Babylon 5.  There was one early episode where Dr. Franklin was upset about losing a patient and went off on some “there is no God/the universe is meaningless/let’s just give up then” tirade.  But that’s good because it represents reality.  People are doing the best they can, and they’re not always consistant.  Londo started as a buffoon and became a Tyrant.  G’kar started off as everyone’s favorite badguy and morphed into a great spiritual leader.  Who could have known that would happen?

Straczinsky may have been an atheist, but he understood that religion is an important influence in most people’s lives (one way or the other).  I vividly remember one episode (“Parliament of Dreams”), where Cmdr. Sinclair had been asked to prepare a presentation of “Earth’s dominant belief system”.  The other alien races gave public demonstrations of some of their important religious rituals, but Sinclair agonized about it for a week.  Finally he took them all down to the cargo area of the station, where there was nothing but a line of people waiting.  “This is Mr. so-and-so, he’s an athiest,” said Sinclair, introducing them to the first man in the line.  “This is Father so-and-so, he’s a Roman Catholic….This is Mr. so-and-so, he’s a Zen Buddhist…”  and as the closing credits of the episode start to run, the camera just pans down this looooooong line of people.

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Posted: 15 June 2007 09:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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J Free - 13 June 2007 03:36 PM

Religion claims to cure fears, but it ends up having to create fears first - and it does a much better job at creating than alleviating them.  i think this is a paraphrase of a Freud quote….
anyways, the priors have the job of going out and drumming up the fear

That’s a good point.

I DIE FREE!  LOL I’ve thought about getting a tattoo.  Love that stuff.

How about a T-shirt?  Can you picture Teal’c emblazoned on the front, only instead of his Apophis caste mark, he has the CFI logo?

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Posted: 15 June 2007 09:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Star Trek took a lot of heat for supposedly “ignoring” religion, but I don’t think that’s the case The writers just realized that, given the diversity of its viewers, having any particular character declare himself an adherent of a particular religion was asking for trouble.  So they wisely treated religion as a personal part of their lives, which wasn’t discussed any more than their sexual preferences.  When it was important to the story, their philosophical beliefs came out.  I remember one where Picard was asked if he believed in life after death.  He gave a very brief summary of both the religous and the materialist sides of the issue (using equally superficial characterizations for both, I might add), and then went on to say that his personal belief was somewhere in between these two extremes.  Which wasn’t very satisfactory, I know, but again they had the diversity of their audience to consider.

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Posted: 15 June 2007 10:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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I DIE FREE!  LOL I’ve thought about getting a tattoo.  Love that stuff.

How about a T-shirt?  Can you picture Teal’c emblazoned on the front, only instead of his Apophis caste mark, he has the CFI logo?

OMMT! LOL! I love it!

What I really wanted was this T-Shirt that said “Bow before me, I am your God.” tongue laugh

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1. God is omnipotent.
Source: Several incidents where I’ve annoyed fundamentalist Christians by challenging God’s power.
2. If God is omnipotent then he can travel faster than the speed of light.
Modus Ponens
3. Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light.
Source: Einstein
Therefore, God is nothing.
QED

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Posted: 20 June 2007 10:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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I just realized that the series finale of Stargate is this Friday.  There are too many loose ends hanging around to hope that they’ll wrap them all up, but there are two that I would particularly like to have answered.

1)  Are we finally going to meet the Furlong?  Or did they go extinct, too?
2)  What the heck ever happened to Nick Ballard?  When we last saw him, he was doing a “culture exchange” with those Aztec dieties.  Sure would be nice for them to show up again.

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Posted: 20 June 2007 10:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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advocatus - 15 June 2007 09:43 AM

How about a T-shirt?  Can you picture Teal’c emblazoned on the front, only instead of his Apophis caste mark, he has the CFI logo?

And he’s saying something cool like “JAFFA KREE!  BE WARY OF FALSE GODS!”

Okay, okay, so it’s lame.  We need to run a contest or something.

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Posted: 20 June 2007 10:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Besides the small joke with the Ewok-like Furlings in 200, I don’t think we’re every going to see them in the series. However, I am aware of an MMORPG named Stargate Worlds that will be coming out that will have Furlings in it. I heard that the makers of Stargate Worlds co-created with Brad Wright so there is a small possibility that it may be considered canonic.

Knowing that Stargate: SG-1 wasn’t allowed to finish up all of its loose ends really… irks me. Skiffy just tends to make my blood boil more and more now adays. First they put wrestling on the Sci-Fi channel, then they cancelled SG-1, then they put Sci-Fi Investigates on, then they put Ghost Hunters on (well, actually, I’m not sure which came first anymore,) then they put “Destination Truth” on. I think that they should probably rename it to the Pseudosci-Fi channel right about now…

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1. God is omnipotent.
Source: Several incidents where I’ve annoyed fundamentalist Christians by challenging God’s power.
2. If God is omnipotent then he can travel faster than the speed of light.
Modus Ponens
3. Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light.
Source: Einstein
Therefore, God is nothing.
QED

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Posted: 06 July 2007 12:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Greetings & Salutations

I am a science fiction fan and started reading the stuff before Star Trek ‘66.

I stopped watching Stargate SG-1 years ago but I have Babylon 5 on DVDs.  The Soul Hunter episode was the first to bring up metaphysical issues in the B5 series.  I prefer to say metaphysical than religious because most people don’t mention the possibility that God might consider religion to be stupid trash.

But the storyline of B5 depends on the concept of reincarnation.  The Minbari claim their souls are being reborn in humans and much of what they do in the story is the result of that belief.  It is also a central idea to The Matrix.

So this makes things really interesting:

http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm

psik

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Fiziks is Fundamental

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Posted: 12 July 2012 08:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Im Sorry but i have to disagree with you. I am a huge Stargate fan and you are quite wrong. 1). Christianity will try to make others Christians but God gives us freewill. He would not ever kill or have one of his followers kill someone because they refuse to be a Christian. 2). Adria, (the Oraci in Stargate) is nothing like Jesus. Jesus came to die for a our sins and make the ultimate sacrifice, not start a mass genocide in Gods name. If you are fan of Stargte and you have studied practices of various religions, you will see more connections from the Ori religion to Scientology, and im not just saying this because I am a Christian. 1). In Scientology, if you leave the religion then you will be hunted down and nearly forced back into the religion (source: NBC). In Origin, if you leave, you are hunted down and tortured. 2). In Scientology, you are an enemy if you are not a Scientologist (source:NBC). In Stargate, an “unbeliever” is not just the enemy, there are killed. 3). Scientology tries to get many celebrities to use as a form of bandwagon propaganda. In Origin, the priors seek out many leaders and important figures in various alien cultures. For example once Gerak,the first leader of the Free Jaffa nation, became a prior, many Jaffa began to turn. 4). Followers of both religions are promised enlightenment. Please take this into deep consideration.

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Posted: 16 July 2012 07:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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I think you’re right, Cat.  The Origen storyline was intended to represent a struggle against repressive religion, but I don’t think it is supposed to represent any specific one.  Adria parallels Jesus because she was also born from an “immaculate conception”, but there the resemblence ends.  As I said earlier, speaking as an atheist, I drew more inspiration from the Jaffa’s struggle against the Goa’uld false gods earlier in the series.

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Posted: 16 July 2012 01:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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catcat8 - 12 July 2012 08:51 PM

1). Christianity will try to make others Christians but God gives us freewill. He would not ever kill or have one of his followers kill someone because they refuse to be a Christian.

Luke 19:27

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

You are quite wrong in your assessment of the Christian god. Do Christians ever bother reading the Bible?

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“In the beginning, God created the universe. This has made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.”
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