3 of 5
3
I want to put something about the religion
Posted: 22 June 2007 03:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  16
Joined  2007-06-21
daybrown - 22 June 2007 02:54 AM
George - 21 June 2007 12:01 PM

Can you give me an example of true religion? Since if there are untrue religions there has to logically be true ones…

Sure. The Chalcolithc faith in the Great Mother Goddess. Other religions preach peace. A “true religion” would *deliver* peace.
it did. It is real simple to understand when you consider the problem a demagogue would have trying to rile up a mob or an army by claiming that *he* speaks in *HER* name. How many wars and genocides have you seen fought in the name of the Virgin Mary?

Course, Buddha’s characterization of the divine force has not been very useful either, so it has not caused much war. But it has not prevented much either. Most men are just not that psychologically capable of dealing with passion. The Great Mother faith solved that problem. It said sex was sacred.

As Mallory notes, the original Aryan language, aka Proto-Indo-European, or PIE, does not have a word for “marriage”. Men who do not own women do not fight over them, much less go to war for them. The faithful of the Great Mother Goddess lived polyamorously in communal houses, and it was the grandmothers, not the men who owned, as the Mosou still do, all the real estate and infrastructure which they used to ensure that the resources were there to properly raise the kids.

Because men were getting laid, they didnt try to exploit the system to get the luxury goods to attract and own harems. Because they didnt try to exploit the system, there was so much egalitarianism that there was no motivation for revolution.

What else does a “true religion” need to deliver besides peace?


An-Nahl

Fulfil the covenant of Allah when ye have covenanted, and break not your oaths after the asseveration of them, and after ye have made Allah surety over you. Lo! Allah knoweth what ye do. (91) And be not like unto her who unravelleth the thread, after she hath made it strong, to thin filaments, making your oaths a deceit between you because of a nation being more numerous than (another) nation. Allah only trieth you thereby, and He verily will explain to you on the Day of Resurrection that wherein ye differed. (92) Had Allah willed He could have made you (all) one nation, but He sendeth whom He will astray and guideth whom He will, and ye will indeed be asked of what ye used to do. (93) Make not your oaths a deceit between you, lest a foot should slip after being firmly planted and ye should taste evil forasmuch as ye debarred (men) from the way of Allah, and yours should be an awful doom. (94) And purchase not a small gain at the price of Allah’s covenant. Lo! that which Allah hath is better for you, if ye did but know(95)
These verses from the Koran holy   all evidence of [/color]

[ Edited: 22 June 2007 03:31 AM by no0or ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 June 2007 09:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9301
Joined  2006-08-29
no0or - 22 June 2007 02:45 AM

Allah is Great, Allah is Great

McDonald’s is yummy, McDonald’s is yummy, McDonald’s is yummy,…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 June 2007 10:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9301
Joined  2006-08-29

No0or,

Stop quoting Koran and let’s have a conversation. Interested? Why do you feel the need to believe Allah exists? (Your words and thoughts, please.)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 June 2007 11:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  16
Joined  2007-06-21

WHAT IS ISLAM?


Can we find an explanation of the great universe? Is there any convincing interpretation of the secret of existence? We realize that no family can function properly without a responsible head, that no city can prosperously exist without sound administration, and that no state can survive without a leader of some kind. We also realize that nothing comes into being on its own. Moreover, we observe that the universe exists and functions in the most orderly manner, and that it has survived for hundreds of thousand of years. Can we then say that all this is accidental and haphazard? Can we attribute the existence of man and the whole world to mere chance.

Man represents only a very small portion of the great universe. And if he can make plans and appreciate the merits of planning, then his own existence and the survival of the universe must also be a planned policy. This means that there is an extraordinary power to bring things into being and keep them moving in order.

In the world then must be a great force in action to keep everything in order. In the beautiful nature there must be a Great creator who creates the most charming pieces of art produces every thing for a special purpose in life. The deeply enlightened people recognize this creator and call him Allah “God”. He is not a man because no man can create or make another man. He is not an animal, nor he is a plant. He is neither an Idol nor is He a statue of any kind because non of these things can make itself or create anything else. He is different from all these things because he is the maker and keeper of them all. The maker of anything must be different from and greater than things which he makes.

There are various ways to know God “ALLAH’’ and there are many things to tell about him. The great wonders and impressive marvels of the world are like open books in which we can read about God. Besides, God Himself comes to our aid through the many Messengers and revelations He has sent down to man. These Messengers and revelations tell us everything we need to know about God.

The complete acceptance of the teachings and guidance of God ‘Allah’ as revealed to His Messengers Muhammad is the religion of Islam. Islam enjoins faith in the oneness and sovereignty of Allah, which makes man aware of meaningfulness of the Universe and of his place in it. This belief frees him from all fears and superstitions by making him conscious of the presence of the Almighty Allah and of man’s obligations towards Him. This faith must be expressed and tested in actions, faith alone is not enough. Belief in one God requires that we look upon all humanity as one family under the universal Omnipotence of God the Creator and Nourisher of all. Islam rejects the idea of chosen people, making belief in God and good actions the only way to heaven. Thus, a direct relationship in established with God, without any intercessor.

Islam is not a new religion. It is, in essence, the same message and guidance which Allah revealed to all Prophets. Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ismael, David, Moses and Jesus (PBUT). But the message which was revealed to Prophet Mohammed (PBUT) is Islam in its comprehensive, complete and final form.

 

The Quran is the last revealed word of Allah and the basic
source of Islamic teachings and laws. The Quran deals with the basis of creeds, morality, history of humanity, worship, knowledge, wisdom, God-man relationship, and human relationship in all aspects. Comprehensive teaching on which, can be built sound systems of social justice, economics, politics, legislation, jurisprudence, law and international relations, are important *******s of the Quran. Hadith, the teachings, sayings and actions of Prophet Mohammed (PBUT), meticulously reported and collected by his devoted companions. Explained and elaborated the Quranic verses.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 June 2007 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  16
Joined  2007-06-21

Contemplative sky is not the fissures and land flat and plants bear fruit, produce and animals grow and rights of each part and member of God is created ??

:

  say there is no god but God alone is not a partner with King Hamad   I am sure you would you like Islam   Ardti knowledge that the more spin-off with me on this e-mail  

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 June 2007 12:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
Moderator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7593
Joined  2007-03-02

no0or, you many be interested in this:

http://www.truthbeknown.com/islam.htm  :

What are the roots of Islam? Well, it is obviously built upon the Judeo-Christian tradition, but it is also a reaction to said tradition, which excluded and vilified the various Arab cultures. Like their Jewish brothers and sisters, the Semitic Arabs trace their lineage to Abraham, who had sex with Hagar the Egyptian, producing the progenitor of the Arab race, Ishmael. While the Jewish contingent interprets this tale to justify its own ethnocentric ideology, Muslims interpret it to fit theirs, claiming that “God” would make of Ishmael’s people a “great nation” (Gen. 21:18).

Abraham (Ibrahim in Islam) is a mythical construct.  He never was real, so the race of Ishmael is not really real either.

Allah is a remake of the moon goddess symbolized on your lovely flag.  Basically, it had a sex change.  It goes from the Old Woman’s religion to a man’s religion.

“Late Islamic masculinization of the Arabian Goddess, Al-Lat or Al-Ilat - the Allatu of the Babylonians - formerly worshipped at the Kaaba in Mecca. It has been shown that ‘the Allah of Islam’ was a male transformation of ‘the primitive lunar deity of Arabia.’ Her ancient symbol the crescent moon still appears on Islamic flags, even though modern Moslems no longer admit any feminine symbolism whatever connected with the wholly patriarchal Allah.”

Indeed, the Koran verifies Allah’s lunar or night-sky status: “Remember the name of our Lord morning and evening; in the night-time worship Him: praise Him all night long.” (Q 76:23) And at Q 2:189: “They question you about the phases of the moon. Say: ‘They are seasons fixed for mankind and for the pilgrimage.’”

In Pagan Rites in Judaism, Theodor Reik states, in a chapter called “The ancient Semitic moon-goddess”:

“All Semites had once a cult of the moon as supreme power. When Mohammed overthrew the old religion of Arabia, he did not dare get rid of the moon cult in a radical manner. Only much later was he powerful enough to forbid prostration before the moon (Koran Sure 4:37). Before Islamic times the moon deity was the most prominent object of cults in ancient Arabia. Arab women still insist that the moon is the parent of mankind.

Astrotheology at Mecca
One of the sites for this worship of the “hosts of heaven” was Mecca. Regarding the Kaaba of Mecca, that holiest of Muslim holies, Walker writes:

“Shrine of the sacred stone in Mecca, formerly dedicated to the pre-Islamic Triple Goddess Manat, Al-Lat (Allah), and Al-Uzza, the ‘Old Woman’ worshipped by Mohammed’s tribesmen the Koreshites. The stone was also called Kubaba, Kuba, or Kube, and has been linked with the name of Cybele (Kybela), the Great Mother of the Gods. The stone bore the emblem of the yoni, like the Black Stone worshipped by votaries of Artemis. Now it is regarded as the holy center of patriarchal Islam, and its feminine symbolism has been lost, though priests of the Kaaba are still known as Sons of the Old Woman.”

“Long before Muhammad’s call, Arabian paganism was showing signs of decay. At the Ka’bah the Meccans worshipped not only Allah, the supreme Semitic God, but also a number of female deities whom they regarded as daughters of Allah. Among these were Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat, who represented the Sun, Venus, and Fortune respectively.”

So the women were thrown out.

For more on this moon goddess thing see:  http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-moon-god.htm

The Bible (and Koran) has also been editted and rewritten by many different people over time too- Genesis tried to take out the idea that the various El gods were more than one god, BUT the creation stories deal with the older Egyptian religion: Elohim are represented in the first creation story (Ptah) and the second one deals with Iu the son of Ptah. Iahu-Elohim (Lord God) become the creator of Adam (Atum) in the second one. (“Let us make man in our own image.”) Elohim equals more than one god and/or goddess, El is singular, as well as a prefix and suffix.

I know you may not be able to see it, but Israel is a combination of 3 gods- Isis-Ra-El. Isis (moon), Ra (sun) and El (stars). Originally the Jews were polytheistic, but the one group tried to make them monetheistic. Thus Moses (Musa) was worshipping a Volcano god when he was up on the mountain. Jealous/Zealous (El Qanna) was his god - (Exodus 34:14). Exodus 19:16 and 20:18-21 is talking very creatively about a volcano- believe it or not. Even Psalms 18 as well as other places in the Bible are talking about a volcano. Moses was trying hard to get them to stop worshipping Baal, moving Israel from the age of Turaus (bull) to the age of Aries (Ram). The North (Elohemists) part of Israel worship more than one god and the South (Yahwists) tried hard to destroy those gods having them to worship one god. Note: YHWH was a volcano god.

Further more, Jesus (messiah for X-ians prophet for Muslims called Isa) is Sun of God, just as Al-Lat was a moon Goddess.  The Abrahamic religions are of similar mixture of myths and astrology.

The story of Ibrahim sacrificing one of his sons- in Islam it’s Ishmael (Ismail) that is attempted to be sacrificed. This story came from another mythical story (and rewritten) in which Hercules appeared and told the woman that his father would not like it if a child was sacrificed and offered her an animal to sacrifice instead.  (I got this info from Robert Price.)  You might want to check out some of his books or listen to some of his podcasts/radio shows on Freethought Media.

I can take these myth further, but I think that is far than more than enough to digest, for you no0or and hopefully not more than your English skills can handle.  Sorry, but I don’t know any Middle Eastern languages.

 Signature 

Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 June 2007 02:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9301
Joined  2006-08-29
no0or - 22 June 2007 11:48 AM

Can we find an explanation of the great universe?

Maybe. I don’t know. I would like that very much.

no0or - 22 June 2007 11:48 AM

Is there any convincing interpretation of the secret of existence?

What secrets? The laws of physics? There is the theory of multiverse. We’ll have to wait and see…

no0or - 22 June 2007 11:48 AM

We realize that no family can function properly without a responsible head, that no city can prosperously exist without sound administration, and that no state can survive without a leader of some kind.

Agreed. So?

no0or - 22 June 2007 11:48 AM

We also realize that nothing comes into being on its own.

Then who created Allah?

no0or - 22 June 2007 11:48 AM

Moreover, we observe that the universe exists and functions in the most orderly manner, and that it has survived for hundreds of thousand of years.

Not true. Our galaxy, the Milky Way, and Andromeda, bigger galaxy than ours, are on a path of collision. We are just lucky that we are alive now and not in millions years when this disaster will occur.

no0or - 22 June 2007 11:48 AM

Can we then say that all this is accidental and haphazard?

No. Life (and possibly the whole universe) evolves according to the law of Natural Selection. Far from an accident.

no0or - 22 June 2007 11:48 AM

Can we attribute the existence of man and the whole world to mere chance.

See my previous response.

no0or - 22 June 2007 11:48 AM

Man represents only a very small portion of the great universe. And if he can make plans and appreciate the merits of planning, then his own existence and the survival of the universe must also be a planned policy. This means that there is an extraordinary power to bring things into being and keep them moving in order


I especially admire the “planning” of the natural disasters (floods, hurricanes, earthquakes) when thousands of innocent people die. An extraordinary power? One evil Allah, if you ask me…

 

no0or - 22 June 2007 11:48 AM

In the world then must be a great force in action to keep everything in order.

Sure. Gravity, magnetism, etc.

no0or - 22 June 2007 11:48 AM

In the beautiful nature there must be a Great creator who creates the most charming pieces of art produces every thing for a special purpose in life.

Charming pieces? Like the little bug (can’t remember its name) who eats its own mother? Charming, indeed.

no0or - 22 June 2007 11:48 AM

The deeply enlightened people recognize this creator and call him Allah “God”.

I am probably not enlightened deeply enough.

no0or - 22 June 2007 11:48 AM

He is not a man because no man can create or make another man. He is not an animal, nor he is a plant. He is neither an Idol nor is He a statue of any kind because non of these things can make itself or create anything else. He is different from all these things because he is the maker and keeper of them all.

You forgot to say that He is not a fungus either.

no0or - 22 June 2007 11:48 AM

The maker of anything must be different from and greater than things which he makes.

Not true. DNA makes DNA.

 

 


As for the rest of your post I like the following part:

no0or - 22 June 2007 11:48 AM

This faith must be expressed and tested in actions, faith alone is not enough.

 

Okay, No0or, now how do you test “in action” that Allah exists?

[ Edited: 22 June 2007 02:21 PM by George ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 June 2007 08:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5508
Joined  2006-10-22

Thank you, no0or, for responding (sort of) to my question as to whether you were serious or joking.  I had a hard time believing that you could be serious about such a silly set of fairytale ideas.  If you hope to hold on to your faith, be sure you never study logic, reasoning, the scientific method, or comparative religions because you would either reject islam or reject the the real world.  This would be bad because you would probably end up in a mental ward.

Occam

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 June 2007 09:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
Moderator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7593
Joined  2007-03-02

I studied comparative religions, philosophy, and mythology, as well as psychology and literature.  I’m not in a mental ward, but I can’t exactly say I’m normal.  Besides, what fun is life if you’re normal?  LOL

 Signature 

Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 June 2007 09:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  472
Joined  2007-06-08

Hello NoOor,

noOor said:

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

And, noOor said:

I am afraid for you from the punishment of Allah

I am wondering: If Allah is “Beneficent” and “Merciful” why would you be worried about us being punished by Allah?

[ Edited: 22 June 2007 10:03 PM by Pragmatic Naturalist ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 June 2007 11:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
Jr. Member
RankRankRank
Total Posts:  65
Joined  2007-06-19

I am wondering about the future of a world which has a billion people believing in such obviously pathological pandering to the warrior class with a concept of the divine just like an out of control tyrant.

Islam is not a religion, but a mental pathology. Not that Christianity, Judaism, and other religions dont have similar problems, but Islam is in a class by itself. Islam is the only major religion involved in violent confrontations with Christians, Jews, HIndus, Jain, Buddhists, & animists, all of whom have figured out how to pretty much get along with each other, with the singular exception of Islam.

Islam is also the most mysogenistic in an era when women are becoming increasingly educated and powerful. We now know that intelligence is handed down mostly on the mtDNA, and we see that smart girls in Islamic cultures educated themselves enough to see the opportunity for women in the West, and therefore leave Islam. Which leaves only the stupid airheads to remain barefoot and pregnant.

To be sure, well educated smart women are picking up on the mindless materialism of the West, but they are finding other, more effective cosmologies to deal with it.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 22 June 2007 11:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
Moderator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7593
Joined  2007-03-02

Not to mention, Islam has become more of a political movement than anything else.

 Signature 

Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 June 2007 08:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  672
Joined  2007-06-17

Hello No0or,

You seem to want to convert me to Islam, and I’m willing to meet you half way by giving you an insight into how your demographic thinks so that you can target your marketing towards me in a more effective manner.

As I see it, to get me to become a muslim, you have 2 mountains to climb here (and they’re not going to just come to muhammed): first, you have get me to believe there is a god and that yours is the one, and two you’ve got to convince me to like him an awful lot.  That way, I will A) believe in Allah and B) Worship Allah.

Addressing point A, you may have noticed you’re on a philosophy site.  Creative, logical thinking and philosophic testing and tentatively concluding are things we like doing.  That, if you like, is the common interest I share with most of the people on this site.  If you want to convince me, you need to construct a set of arguments in which point number 2 logically follows on from point number 1.  If there are a couple of different possible “thens” that could equally arise from your initial “if”, I want you to state them all and eliminate them on at a time. Eg. If there’s a universe out there, and we’ve not met God in it yet, then either there is a God in some other part of the universe, he’s invisible and very quiet, he exists outside of the universe or he doesn’t exist. There is even more to philosophy than just that, read up on how to do it and enjoy the ride.

Addressing point B, your marketing of Allah is way off line for me.  I read your stuff, watch your advert and I really don’t want to buy your product.  You see even if we dispensed with point A, I look at your representation of Allah’s personality and he doesn’t strike me as a nice guy.  I really don’t think I’d get on with him.  I think you need to look at his better qualities and try and sell him on his merits.

Consider this hypothetical scenario: you’re messing around with some chemicals one day and oops! there ‘s almighty band.  When the smoke clears, you notice that you’ve created a little universe with a whole load of little people in it, an eternal fiery pit and an eternal nice place.  Now, some of the little people spend an awful lot of their time telling you that you’re lovely and others not so much.  What would be a nice way in which to administer these things you have created?

If it helps you to see how I think about the God you are currently peddling, take a look at this short film and have a little think about it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDp7pkEcJVQ

 Signature 

http://web.mac.com/normsherman/iWeb/Site/Podcast/833F918B-485B-42F4-B18C-4AB1436D9B87.html

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 June 2007 10:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
Moderator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7593
Joined  2007-03-02

LOL  That video is so funny, narwhol.  Sounds exactly like religion.  Thanks for sharing it.

 Signature 

Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

Profile
 
 
Posted: 23 June 2007 11:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  16
Joined  2007-06-21

I tell you about Islam does not enter politics, we are not afraid of the British
not afraid of war everything is written by God will happen   we do not want you, but love interest


and scared   I swear to you, my Lord, I am afraid you that you are our brothers and sisters   Islam are all brothers are all created from clay   by one .. The heart of one .. The same one that Islam

this that you want your option   Take your time Think. Week. Month

Profile
 
 
   
3 of 5
3