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Crop Circles…
Posted: 21 June 2007 03:00 PM   [ Ignore ]
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are not man made. The number of examples now, every one of which is perfect, is such as to preclude men making them. Were they all manmade, there’d be some fuckups by now. I’ve not seen any. has anyone else?

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Posted: 21 June 2007 04:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Er, they most certainly are man made. Indeed, several men have admitted to making them.

For more, see HERE.

Crop circles are some of the sillier examples of paranormalism ... as though the best that aliens or other life-forces could do is make pretty patterns in wheat.

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Posted: 21 June 2007 05:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Hi, I have been fascinated by this phenomena for a long time now, and have tried to obtain as much material on this as possible.

The BBC had a recent programme on this topic and on their website ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A724204) they write this:

Microwave Energy

A team led by Dr WC Levengood of Pinelandia Labs in Michigan has reported results of unexplained biophysical anomalies in plant and soil samples taken from a large number of crop circle formations. Some circles were reported to contain swollen, stretched, burst or split nodes on plant stems in a manner similar to ‘microwave energy effects’ (rapid, intense internal heating), dehydrated/shrunken seeds and significant changes in seed germination and growth rate (either faster or slower than normal). A plant biologist, Levengood has frequently found increased growth rate in the formation seeds since his investigations began in 1990. He has demonstrated in his lab that controlled, short bursts of microwaves on cereal crops can produce accelerated growth. There have also been significant chemical changes in the soil samples analysed.

Levengood’s associates found these effects in both simple and more complex patterns, but were unable to reproduce these results by conventional hoaxing methods (e, boards, rope, feet, etc). A comprehensive preliminary report of these findings entitled Anatomical Anomalies in Crop Formation Plants was published in the peer-reviewed journal Physiologia Plantarum in October 1994 by the Burke, Levengood and Talbott research team.

These studies have opened up new areas of research, including photographing at photon level the cell water that has been subjected to the energies of crop circle formations, showing clusters of energy patterns. There are also efforts to focus on ways to positively distinguish between man-made and ‘genuine’ formations.

Furthermore, they provide a link for those who wish to learn more about it:
The Crop Circle Research website http://www.cropcircleresearch.com/ brings a ‘serious scientific’ angle to the crop circle debate.

Just because a few ingenious people manged to make some crop circles, which conveniently were mowed over soon thereafter, doesn’t explain -completely- all the other crop circles.
IMHO, I like the idea that these may be UFO graffiti…
smiles…

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Posted: 21 June 2007 07:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I’m with Doug on this one. Can’t imagine anything more nonsensical than the idea that extraterrestrial civilizations come to earth because we just have the prettiest corn and wheat for drawing in in the whole sector.  rolleyes

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Posted: 21 June 2007 08:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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If I were capable of traveling to another world light years away populated by sentient beings, the first thing one could assume is that my species had developed a modicum of intelligence.  There would be a great many things I might want to do, but mowing down wheat fields in silly symbols would not be one of them. 

Even if I were to want to perpetrate a hoax, I could certainly come up with something less moronic than crop circles.  As I see it, the guys who made the circles were just trying to see just how gullible and stupid the people in the area were.  They demonstrated this far beyond their hopes.

Occam

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Posted: 02 July 2007 01:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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mckenzievmd - 21 June 2007 07:34 PM

I’m with Doug on this one. Can’t imagine anything more nonsensical than the idea that extraterrestrial civilizations come to earth because we just have the prettiest corn and wheat for drawing in in the whole sector.  rolleyes

I can imagine something more nonsensical.  Some new age researcher thinking that he’s photographing the “Energy Patterns” (conveniently nebulous concept) in cell water.  Yeah, I think we’ve all got a camera like that knocking about.  I use it to diagnose my crop circles before crystal healing them back into a field of upright stalks.  It really works… so I’m told… by the great joo-joo at the bottom of the sea.

I mean, honestly! If you see that kind of phrase anywhere, at any time, just watch “what the bleep are our qualifications?” again at the point where they do the well behaved/naughty water thing.

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Posted: 04 July 2007 02:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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mckenzievmd - 21 June 2007 07:34 PM

I’m with Doug on this one. Can’t imagine anything more nonsensical than the idea that extraterrestrial civilizations come to earth because we just have the prettiest corn and wheat for drawing in in the whole sector.  rolleyes

But Earth does have the prettiest corn in the whole sector!

The following is a list of things Earth has the best of within a radius of 8 million light years:
1. The best sense of humor.
2. The best roller coasters.
3. The best corn.
4. The best TV shows (mainly in the United States, excluding soap operas.)
5. The best water parks.

Unfortunately, alien tourists are kept away by the following:
1. The most religious wars of any planet in the sector.
2. Creationists.
3. Insane people in general.

The number one reason in the list above has caused the Interstellar Association of Non-Humanoid Sentient Life Forms to forbid travel of aliens to all countries. However, because of the sudden rise in aliens addicted to pasta, travel to Italy will be allowed in certain circumstances. Travel to France is already allowed for those wishing to visit their family who had immigrated there before the ban on travel to Earth was established.

Of course, I would have evidence that IANHSLF does exist, and I would also have evidence that the immigration rate to France by aliens has skyrocketed in reccent years, but the government covered it up.

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Posted: 04 July 2007 05:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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This argument from “I can’t imagine….” doesn’t stand up anyway.  You wouldn’t imagine that they would visit just to see the contents of a humans rectum, but they apparently have done.  And, not satisfied the first time, they did it again.  What did they expect to find on all the subsequent occasions?  I mean, we’ve all done it, we’ve all had a sneaky peek; only natural - curiosity and all.  But once you’ve seen one, you’ve seen them all.  I bet they’re just a bunch of bewildered guys flying around the galaxy saying “But that was the last place I left it!”

P.S. Happy independence day everyone

[ Edited: 04 July 2007 06:09 PM by narwhol ]
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Posted: 04 July 2007 09:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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“Can’t imagine” was less an argument than an indication of disdain. I would have thought you, of all people Narwhol, would have recognized sarcasm!  tongue wink

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Posted: 05 July 2007 06:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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The recently posted “3D” crop circle looks fishy to me. The angle of the photos may be the cause, but it does not look like it was created with the precision and accuracy I’ve seen in many other examples.

So- I dont maintain that all of the crop circles were not man made. Other recent examples have geometric relationships that are not immediately evident to the average dolt, whereas the “3D” pattern, rendered somewhat sloppily from what I can see in the photos, certainly is.

The complexity of some recent designs goes way beyond anything comprehensible to the boys in the pub. This does not mean that I think they were designed by anything most folks would consider the result of sentience. Fractles are a similar example, which result from fairly simple, and somewhat random, relationships between natural forces that also have a random input.

You dont need a genius to produce a fern leaf; a fairly random interaction of natural law would do, and has done. Nor do I assume that the natural laws we are aware of are limited to the 3 dimensions we are ordinarily aware of. There’s no reason to think that they do not also have effects in some of the other 10 or 11 dimesions quantum mechanics and higher math says must exist. Its quite natural to expect that some of the order hominids have imposed on what passes for reality emits patterns of energy into other dimensions which are then reflected back into planes of phenomena we are ordinarily aware of.

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Posted: 05 July 2007 01:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Touche, Brennen.

And, Daybrown, a couple of things here: firstly, the existence 10 or more dimensions is still debatable and (IMO) extremely unlikely - mathematicians like Roger Penrose get a kick out of doing differential geometry in them and pretending that superstrings are likely construct - and secondly, I think hominids are a genus and mammalia is the order (hmm, actually I seem to remember mammalia being a class and the order being vertebrata know I think it about it).  On this last point, I’m not a biologist so ask someone who knows.  I just remember Oscar Wilde’s response to the allegation that he was a homo: “I have nothing to declare but my genus.”

Or something like that.

[ Edited: 05 July 2007 01:13 PM by narwhol ]
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Posted: 05 July 2007 07:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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As I seem to recall from my 1949 Zoology class it was: Phylum - chordata; subphylum - craniata or vertebrata; class - mammalia; infraclass - eutheria - placental mammals; order - primates; suborder - anthropoidea; superfamily - hominoidea; family - hominidae; genus - homo; species - sapiens.

However, Brennen is much more knowledgable and up to date on this so he can correct any of my mistakes or anachronisms.

Occam

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Posted: 05 July 2007 10:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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The problem is those darn anthropologists change it all the time!

Kingdom-Animalia
Phylum-Chordata (sub-phylum vertebrata)
Class-Mammalia
Order-Primates
Family-Hominidae
Genus-Homo
Species-sapiens (subspecies sapiens)


But there are a bunch of sub categaries (e.g. superfamily Hominoidea, subtribe-Hominina), and some of them are contentious. The general outline is probably sufficient for those of us not practising physical anthropologists.

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Posted: 06 July 2007 01:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Thanks for the taxonomy - I would take the time to learn it now that it’s written down, but as you say they change it all the time.  I’m better off belonging to that “no idea” superfamily thing

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Posted: 06 July 2007 05:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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daybrown - 21 June 2007 03:00 PM

are not man made. The number of examples now, every one of which is perfect, is such as to preclude men making them. Were they all manmade, there’d be some fuckups by now. I’ve not seen any. has anyone else?

Type of logical fallacy you have committed: Appeal to Ignorance.

Only the good-looking crop circles are going to be sought out and photographed en mass and then the best of those will be the most highly publicized.  The really crappy ones (see below) don’t warrant as much attention and, hence, will fall by the wayside.  But as mentioned in the above fallacy, just because you haven’t seen ugly, misshapen ones, doesn’t mean they don’t exist.  Have you seen every photograph of every crop circle ever taken? 
 
Ugly Crop Circle #1

Ugly Crop Circle #2

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Posted: 25 July 2007 10:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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mckenzievmd - 21 June 2007 07:34 PM

I’m with Doug on this one. Can’t imagine anything more nonsensical than the idea that extraterrestrial civilizations come to earth because we just have the prettiest corn and wheat for drawing in in the whole sector.  rolleyes

not only that, but theres more confusing things about alleged visitations.

first, im sure most on here have pondered the problems of physics. im talking about time dilation, speed, energy, what the spacecrafts are made of, etc. if ET is coming from 1,000 light years away and traveling at near speed of light, I want to know what is the craft made of to avoid disintegrating (due to friction), how do they navigate, how do they fuel the thing (you know, the whole e=mc2 factor) and what happens with time dilation? When they get back what are the prospects that their civilization will still be there? Will they find a certain gun-nut crying “damn you all to Hell”?

second, what about the problem of evolution? it doesnt mean progress or advancement. so why do folks think that if life has been around on such and such astro-body for billions of years more than Earth that they will be more advanced and somehow able to overcome problems of physics? if life has been on this planet for 3.5 billion years and high intelligence for only 300,000 years then we should accept that a) not only is life on other planets, moons, etc a rare occurence, but that b) high intelligence is even more rare. so the prospects of another form of high intelligence being close enough to visit or communicate with us is next to nil.

which brings us to the problems of alleged UFO sightings. why do we always see them here, but SETI never hears or see them coming? why do they go through all the trouble to avoid being detected on their way here but then pointlessly hover over populated cities (also, in the obscure cover of night), play with our corn fields and then leave? what value is that worth? if they are so advanced why, oh why do they come so far for such absurd purposes?

if the number of sightings are accepted as true then SETI should be confirming stuff left and right.

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