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Crop Circles…
Posted: 31 July 2007 10:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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truthaddict - 31 July 2007 09:21 AM

zerzel,

just one problem: two guys have shown how they can make intricate patterns. one guy, named “mike” even managed to leave an intricate crop circle that - if you looked hard enough - spelled out his name.

so, on one hand we got a baseless conspiracy theory and on the other we not only got an admission that they are made by a couple of people, but some have been willing to demonstrate on TV how they do it.

Where is the source for this. Please link me to the site, and detailed picture and description of the crop circle if poss. Thanks.

And are we talking about ONE guy…? Surely you are not going to rush to judge ALL the avialable evidence on that one guy ARE you…?

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Posted: 31 July 2007 10:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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dougsmith - 31 July 2007 09:37 AM
zerzel - 30 July 2007 06:20 PM

other witnesses have seen lights form them. That is evidence too.

Evidence of what?

We do not know. That is why we are collecting and investigating ALL the avialable evidence…?

What could lights in a field signify? On the one hand: Fireflies. Ball lightning. A reflective material (e.g., dew) catching moonlight. People having placed LEDs or flashlights in the field. Or just “creative” witnesses.

Yes, some of the lights COULD be firelies, ball lightning, and all the other stuff you mention. But to just ASSUME that those possibilities explains the whole phenomena of crop circles is NOT scientific, or intelligent.

Or on the other hand, that we are being visited regularly by space aliens?

Which is the intuitively more probable explanation?

rolleyes

Well you have missed out that some CCs could be being made by men in black ops. That also is to be considered!

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Posted: 31 July 2007 10:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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zerzel - 31 July 2007 10:09 AM

We do not know. That is why we are collecting and investigating ALL the avialable evidence…?

Well, and what is that evidence that has been collected? Just saying it’s lights in a field doesn’t tell us very much.

zerzel - 31 July 2007 10:09 AM

Yes, some of the lights COULD be firelies, ball lightning, and all the other stuff you mention. But to just ASSUME that those possibilities explains the whole phenomena of crop circles is NOT scientific, or intelligent.

It is always better to assume the more probable explanation than the less probable one, given the evidence. That is what you do all the time when you’re not thinking about space aliens. For example, when you see nibbles out of the cheese and mouse droppings on the floor, you theorize that there are mice in the house. The same evidence could support the theory that there are space aliens who like cheese, and who believe that they are thanking you by leaving little brown pellets on the floor. But if you accept that sort of explanation, I have an infinite number of other ones that are equally unlikely for you.

zerzel - 31 July 2007 10:09 AM

Well you have missed out that some CCs could be being made by men in black ops. That also is to be considered!

“Black ops”? What are “black ops” and why should we consider them?

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Posted: 31 July 2007 10:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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zerzel,

the “mike” example is in a book at home, but if you really must have it I will get it for you.

but here is an example of some people explaining how they do intricate patterns. its an art form for them.

http://www.circlemakers.org/

try and use some common sense here. a) why have the patterns gotten more complex over time? b) what purpose would it be for CCs to be done by “men in black ops”? c) how does the “government” fit in on the CCs and what is your basis? why should we consider them? why should a paranoid and baseless “possibility” be entertained when groups of people are demonstrating for you how they do it?

Carl Sagans book A Demon Haunted World had an example where a CC said, “We Are Not Alone.” It would have come off more authentic if it said, “You Are Not Alone.”

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Posted: 31 July 2007 10:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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dougsmith - 31 July 2007 10:28 AM
zerzel - 31 July 2007 10:09 AM

We do not know. That is why we are collecting and investigating ALL the avialable evidence…?

Well, and what is that evidence that has been collected? Just saying it’s lights in a field doesn’t tell us very much.

people have reported seeing lights come down from the sky, and later there is a cropcircle. So what do we do with that witnesses account? Call them woo woo and take the piss, or take the account seriously as evidence? Well?
Other evidence is how the stalks are bent. And detection—in some—of microwaves. The speed of which some occur, and complexity of design, etc. Also a researcher I am aware of investigates the possibility, by some of the designs that they are pointing to the design of advanced craft.

zerzel - 31 July 2007 10:09 AM

Yes, some of the lights COULD be firelies, ball lightning, and all the other stuff you mention. But to just ASSUME that those possibilities explains the whole phenomena of crop circles is NOT scientific, or intelligent.

It is always better to assume the more probable explanation than the less probable one, given the evidence. That is what you do all the time when you’re not thinking about space aliens. For example, when you see nibbles out of the cheese and mouse droppings on the floor, you theorize that there are mice in the house. The same evidence could support the theory that there are space aliens who like cheese, and who believe that they are thanking you by leaving little brown pellets on the floor. But if you accept that sort of explanation, I have an infinite number of other ones that are equally unlikely for you.

We are not talking about nibbled cheese. The CC phenomena is more complex than nibbled cheese. It is USUAL in my experience for so-called scientific ‘investigators’ of Cropcircles and ‘aliens’ to ALWAYS settle for not just the ‘probable evidence’ but the most absurd explanations. I see this tactic as denial of evidence rather than serious investigation of ALL possible evidence.

zerzel - 31 July 2007 10:09 AM

Well you have missed out that some CCs could be being made by men in black ops. That also is to be considered!

“Black ops”? What are “black ops” and why should we consider them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_op

am i gettin paid for this wink

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Posted: 31 July 2007 11:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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why do we have to consider them? do you have any evidence for them and their CC activity? if not, then answer the first question this way: who should we entertain your delusional conspiracies?

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Posted: 31 July 2007 11:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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zerzel - 31 July 2007 10:52 AM

people have reported seeing lights come down from the sky, and later there is a cropcircle. So what do we do with that witnesses account? Call them woo woo and take the piss, or take the account seriously as evidence? Well?
Other evidence is how the stalks are bent. And detection—in some—of microwaves. The speed of which some occur, and complexity of design, etc. Also a researcher I am aware of investigates the possibility, by some of the designs that they are pointing to the design of advanced craft.

This stuff has been dealt with in enormous detail in SI. I suggest we start by looking HERE

Let’s take the evidence you provide.

(1) “Lights coming down from the sky.” Who reported this? What other evidence do they provide?
(2) Crop circle. We have independent evidence that people have made these.
(3) Stalks are bent. So what? Stalks are bent by walking on them.
(4) Microwaves. If you know anything about physics you will know that microwaves are ubiquitous. So anyone who claims that “microwaves” are evidence of UFOs is simply BSing you.
(5) Advanced designs. So what? Can you demonstrate that these examples are too complex for human manufacture?

zerzel - 31 July 2007 10:52 AM

“Black ops”? What are “black ops” and why should we consider them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_op

am i gettin paid for this wink

You get what you pay for, zerzel. This doesn’t tell me anything I didn’t already know. The question is what do you mean specifically by “black ops” and why should we consider them? “Black ops” is just lazy thinking. It’s like blaming everything on “the illuminati” or “the Reds”.

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Posted: 31 July 2007 11:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Well you have missed out that some CCs could be being made by [angry trolls]. That also is to be considered!

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Posted: 31 July 2007 11:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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truthaddict - 31 July 2007 10:42 AM

zerzel,

the “mike” example is in a book at home, but if you really must have it I will get it for you.

but here is an example of some people explaining how they do intricate patterns. its an art form for them.

http://www.circlemakers.org/

try and use some common sense here. a) why have the patterns gotten more complex over time? b) what purpose would it be for CCs to be done by “men in black ops”? c) how does the “government” fit in on the CCs and what is your basis? why should we consider them? why should a paranoid and baseless “possibility” be entertained when groups of people are demonstrating for you how they do it?

Carl Sagans book A Demon Haunted World had an example where a CC said, “We Are Not Alone.” It would have come off more authentic if it said, “You Are Not Alone.”

according to CC researcher Freddie Silva: “No hoaxed crop circle has ever produced the singlemost characteristic associated with the genuine phenomenon: plants whose stems are bent, not broken. Other anomalies include alteration in the crystalline structure of the plants themselves, also unfakable, and alterations of the local electromagnetic field There is the ability of the plants to grow after being laid, indicating they are alive and have not been trampled; possible alterations in soil chemical composition; distorted and more rapidly germinating seeds; and severe loss of groundwater, just to mention a few.”...?

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Posted: 31 July 2007 11:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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dougsmith - 31 July 2007 11:27 AM
zerzel - 31 July 2007 10:52 AM

people have reported seeing lights come down from the sky, and later there is a cropcircle. So what do we do with that witnesses account? Call them woo woo and take the piss, or take the account seriously as evidence? Well?
Other evidence is how the stalks are bent. And detection—in some—of microwaves. The speed of which some occur, and complexity of design, etc. Also a researcher I am aware of investigates the possibility, by some of the designs that they are pointing to the design of advanced craft.

This stuff has been dealt with in enormous detail in SI. I suggest we start by looking HERE

Let’s take the evidence you provide.

(

1) “Lights coming down from the sky.” Who reported this? What other evidence do they provide?

..wink and do a bit of research yourself dude?

(

2) Crop circle. We have independent evidence that people have made these.

Yes, never said you haven’t. But you seem to want to lump ALL CCs into the dodgy efforts of the hoax brigade category

(

3) Stalks are bent. So what? Stalks are bent by walking on them.

This question shows your ignore-ance about the significance of ‘bent’

(4) Microwaves. If you know anything about physics you will know that microwaves are ubiquitous. So anyone who claims that “microwaves” are evidence of UFOs is simply BSing you.

where is your evidence for this?

(5) Advanced designs. So what? Can you demonstrate that these examples are too complex for human manufacture?

see my reply to other member—just

zerzel - 31 July 2007 10:52 AM

“Black ops”? What are “black ops” and why should we consider them?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_op

am i gettin paid for this wink

You get what you pay for, zerzel. This doesn’t tell me anything I didn’t already know. The question is what do you mean specifically by “black ops” and why should we consider them? “Black ops” is just lazy thinking. It’s like blaming everything on “the illuminati” or “the Reds”.

This would necessiate you being familiar with The Disclosure project. heard of it?

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Posted: 31 July 2007 11:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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gulp

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Posted: 31 July 2007 12:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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zerzel - 31 July 2007 11:52 AM

according to CC researcher Freddie Silva: “No hoaxed crop circle has ever produced the singlemost characteristic associated with the genuine phenomenon: plants whose stems are bent, not broken. Other anomalies include alteration in the crystalline structure of the plants themselves, also unfakable, and alterations of the local electromagnetic field There is the ability of the plants to grow after being laid, indicating they are alive and have not been trampled; possible alterations in soil chemical composition; distorted and more rapidly germinating seeds; and severe loss of groundwater, just to mention a few.”...?

Help us out here, zerzel, who is Freddie Silva and why should we take anything he says seriously?

“Plants whose stems are bent”? He isn’t serious.

How are the plant’s crystalline structures changed? Based on what evidence?
How is the “local electromagnetic field” changed? Based on what evidence?

Etc.

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Posted: 31 July 2007 12:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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dougsmith - 31 July 2007 12:18 PM
zerzel - 31 July 2007 11:52 AM

according to CC researcher Freddie Silva: “No hoaxed crop circle has ever produced the singlemost characteristic associated with the genuine phenomenon: plants whose stems are bent, not broken. Other anomalies include alteration in the crystalline structure of the plants themselves, also unfakable, and alterations of the local electromagnetic field There is the ability of the plants to grow after being laid, indicating they are alive and have not been trampled; possible alterations in soil chemical composition; distorted and more rapidly germinating seeds; and severe loss of groundwater, just to mention a few.”...?

Help us out here, zerzel, who is Freddie Silva and why should we take anything he says seriously?

“Plants whose stems are bent”? He isn’t serious.

How are the plant’s crystalline structures changed? Based on what evidence?
How is the “local electromagnetic field” changed? Based on what evidence?

Etc.

go read him

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Posted: 31 July 2007 12:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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zerzel - 31 July 2007 11:58 AM

(

3) Stalks are bent. So what? Stalks are bent by walking on them.

This question shows your ignore-ance about the significance of ‘bent’

LOL

zerzel - 31 July 2007 11:58 AM

(4) Microwaves. If you know anything about physics you will know that microwaves are ubiquitous. So anyone who claims that “microwaves” are evidence of UFOs is simply BSing you.

where is your evidence for this?

The very fact that you have to ask for evidence for something as basic as this shows that you need to learn more about physics before listening to some of these charlatans. Check THIS out, for example, or THIS.

zerzel - 31 July 2007 11:58 AM

You get what you pay for, zerzel. This doesn’t tell me anything I didn’t already know. The question is what do you mean specifically by “black ops” and why should we consider them? “Black ops” is just lazy thinking. It’s like blaming everything on “the illuminati” or “the Reds”.

This would necessiate you being familiar with The Disclosure project. heard of it?

LOL

Check THIS out ...

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Posted: 31 July 2007 12:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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zerzel - 31 July 2007 12:30 PM

go read him

My question was:  who is Freddie Silva and why should we take anything he says seriously?

Since you appear to be taking him very seriously indeed you must have pretty detailed knowledge about how credible he is as a source.

Just because Joe Blow says XYZ doesn’t mean that we should take XYZ seriously.

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