I’d like to solicit your responses to this Film…

Zeitgeist the Movie <—click here to see it.

I was recently made aware of this film by a member of another online forum.  As I have stated in other threads I spent around 3 months researching the 9/11 conspiracy theories in order to respond to the allegations made by this conspiracy that were repeated to me by my brother.

This movie encompasses that conspiracy along with a pretty solid debunking of religion (Ironically my Brother is a devout Christian), the Federal Reserve, the Banking industry in general, the media, and a conspiracy to eventually create one world government with complete control over every individual in the world.

The opening

The opening sequence of the film lasts for 4:54 minutes.  I would suggest skipping that part, it has little redeeming value.  It is simply a photo montage with some ominous sounding music.  No significant message other than disturbing images.

Part 1 is devoted to religion around 5:00 minutes in

It is in fact very well done.  I personally cannot speak for it’s accuracy, but it rings true. 

It cleverly shows the relationship of many world religions to the Sun, the Stars, the astrological symbols/constellations, the winter solstice, and spring equinox. 

It goes on to show the correlation of religions of early civilizations with the motion of the sun, and the stars.  It then shows how Christian religion was almost completely plagiarized from Egyptian Myth. 

It then correlates End of the World prophesies with the end of the Age of Pisces and the beginning of the Age of Aquarius.  This having to do with the effects of a slight wobble of the earth’s axis that brings sunrise on the Spring equinox in line with a different constellation every 2150 years or so.

In the end, it demonstrates the use of faith as a means of securing power and control over civilizations.  Many examples are provided, from Roman use of Christianity to destroy opposition to it’s dynasty, to the inquisition, and on and on.

This serves as a transition to part 2.

Part 2 - focuses on the 9/11 conspiracy. around 35:00 minutes in.

This section begins with an example of Tucker Carlson of MSNBC suggesting that it is blasphemous to suggest that the Bush Administration was in someway responsible for 9/11, thereby linking the earlier religious discussion with the conspiracy.

People who have spent time looking into this conspiracy theory will not see anything new here.  It is mostly a re-hash of the events as seen through their eyes.

It ends by suggesting that the London transit bombings (todays discovered car bombs in London more evidence?), were intentionally set and that there was a police training scenario for that very type of event playing out on the same day as the bombings.

It is also suggested that the sinking of the Lusitania, Japanse bombing of Pearl Harbor and North Vietnamese attack on a PT boat, were all staged events leading to US engagement in wars following those events.

Part 3 - economic conspiracy about 1:06 minutes in.
This section covers Banking conspiracies associated with the Federal Reserve, Federal taxes (illegal and unconstitutional according to the theory), and debt slavery.

Implications of Banker/Aristocracy led control of the economy and debt, in order to enslave society and use the media to pacify us, destroy the education system to eliminate critical thought. 

Ending with a forecast of micro technology embedded in humans and used to track your finances, your whereabouts and serve as an electronic ID/Passport. 

Conclusion

This film is the most effective presentation of this conspiracy theory I have seen so far.  It is for the most part well done (with the exception of some sequences that are too slow moving).  They use as examples some of my favorite comedians, such as George Carlin and Bill Hicks, along with sequences from the movie Network to make their points.

I am hoping that this group can help in separating fact from fiction in this film. 

As an Atheist and a Skeptic, I have tried to avoid aligning myself with any particular political viewpoint.  I prefer to remain independent and objective and consider issues on their own merit rather than through the lens of a Political stance.

I find this group of Conspiracy Theorists more challenging to confront than any Theist.  Their myths are so tightly knit with verifiable facts, that separating the myths is very difficult.

I realize no one wants to make a career of this, but if you have time to view the film and pass along your thoughts I would appreciate it.

The part on religion is partly based off Acharya S.‘s work.  I think I posted her section of that movie on another thread and yes, I have to agree, it rings VERY true.  She only shows part of Part I on her blog:  http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=120058877&blogID=281519958  What she states in her book and what they show in this movie on the subject is what I had always thought about religion and many scholars are finally coming out and confirming it- for me at least. The Jesus story is nothing but a Sun god personified, just as many others before him- Krishna, Buddha, Horus, Hercules, etc.  He never existed and was never a historical figure. I become more and more convinced of that the more I study the subject.

I just saw zeitgeist part three. I have a couple of comments.

First of all, the need for a central bank is that the money is not the wealth itself, it’s a representation of the wealth of one nation. So, it’s emission permission should be limited to one goverment authority in order to protect the currency value of representation. I don’t see anything wrong with this… what could be the alternative?. Also, contrary to what the movie claims, as far I know, the FED is not a private bank, it is a state bank.  The FED doesnt depend on the executive power of USA, but it doesnt mean it’s private (I could write thousand of pages telling what ussually happen in a country when the central bank authority is guided by the political and ussually short term interest of the president). Please, if I am wrong believing it’s not private, let me know.

On the other hand, the central bank lend money to the federal govermant ( in the united states ), because of the later’s current account deficit. This deficit is what, almost alone, makes the global economy to work ( usa is the world economy engine ), so the deficit is a convenient thing to the whole world (the americans tend to live very well, and the rest of the world has a place to sell its goods). This deficit is covered by fed loans to the goverment, of course to an interest rate in order to protect the dollar strengh. This is because the FED takes dollars on the world paying an interest, and it does that just to keep all the seller happy to receive dollars. If the fed start to lend money to the federal goverment at no interest, it would be more dificult to the fed to absorb dollar abroad and this could lead to a lost of trust in the dollar, and also, because of the lack of ‘dissuasive effect’ the interest rate could have on the goverment spendings, the fed would have more dollars to take abroad.

It’s no hard to take an analogy from home economics: if you spend more than you produce, you’ll have to take loans from any source. This sources will charge interest by their own profit, but, if the didn’t, everybody will start to take loans, and quickly the demand for goods and services would overpass the production, leading to inflation. So, the only alternative to this situation is to consume less things.

In one part, the movies quotes Thomas Jefferson saying ‘I believe that banking instutions are more dangerous than armies, if the american people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of their property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered’. Well, I tend to agree with TJ, but as far I know the currency control is not on private hands anywhere. So, the phrase is true, but it still refers to an hypothetical situation.

The movie quotes W. Wilson complaining about that the ‘strong industrial nation is now controlled by credit’. I’d say that credit is essential to create the enviroment which lets strong industrial activities to grow. It’s particulary true in this times of expensive equipment, lot of manpower (people who like to get paid *before* the production is ready, which means before the production is sold, which mean before the capitalist could earn money).

I watched the whole thing a couple of weeks ago.

Like you said the beginning is a silly waste of time.  Other than that I don’t have any complaints.

It is curious how a building that stood for 25 years can collapse in less than 12 seconds.  And it is actually bizarre that after 6 years the experts can’t tell us how many tons of steel and tons of concrete were on each floor.  Didn’t they have to figure that out before they poured the foundation?  We should have had that information in 6 weeks.

Of course that doesn’t appear to be a problem for the Believers In The Osama Conspiracy.

psikey

Unfortunately, a lot of what the movie claims is true. I did research on this and dug a little deeper as the site suggests.

The Nazi connection between the Prescott Bush is a matter of Congressional record and is available in the national archives.

The Engineers of the building disputed the planes crashing into it and causing that much damage.

And further research in to Congressional records show that there was a coup attempt on FDR in 1933 by JP Morgan and American Fascists known as the Silver Shirts. They enlisted an American General to lead it but he narced them out to congress. That FDR didn’t arrest is due to getting them to be on board with the New Deal legislation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

Continue to research the other sources.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml

http://american_almanac.tripod.com/smedley.htm

  * U.S. House of Representatives, Special Committee on Un-American Activities, Public Statement, 73rd Congress, 2nd session, (Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 1934)
  * U.S. House of Representatives, Special Committee on Un-American Activities, Investigation of Nazi Propaganda Activities and Investigation of Certain Other Propaganda Activities, Hearings 73-D.C.-6, Part 1, 73rd Congress, 2nd session, (Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 1935).

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Parliament/2398/vesting.html

http://www.archives.gov/iwg/declassified-records/rg-131-alien-property/rg-131-records-02.html#below

Vesting orders box no. 241

It is a matter of record.

Now if these people have no problem supporting someone who was bent on killing six million people in WWII and has no problem lying to the UN and starting the Iraq war, killing tens of thousands of Iraqis.

I don’t think it is a far leap that they would kill 3,000 American Citizens on September 11, 2001.

I am not the only one who is beginning to think that Zeitgeist is spot on about most of the points. Many intellectual stable individuals see some scary things going on in this country. Not everyone who is questioning this is a kook.

As Robin Williams said: “Osama Bin-Ladin is a six-foot-five Arab on dialysis… why is that so fu&*ing hard to find?

I would also recommend reading:

End of America by Naomi Wolf

Only a Theory: Evolution and the Battle for America’s Soul by Kenneth Miller

Finally they should catch Osama Bin Laden and bring him under trial here in the US and let the evidence stand - I am not saying this is correct I am saying these are important points and getting that man under trial here in the US is what needs to be done.

As Robin Williams said: “Osama Bin-Ladin is a six-foot-five Arab on dialysis… why is that so fu&*ing hard to find?

I wonder if he got any of that contaminated heparin? (and if he didn’t——why not?)

Who knows, he might be even dead.

As for the movie, still need to finish watching it. Seems like an interesting watch.

v1k

Eh… The movie was mediocre at best.

Sshado - 24 June 2008 10:27 PM

Eh… The movie was mediocre at best.

How so?

psikeyhackr - 11 July 2007 11:27 PM

It is curious how a building that stood for 25 years can collapse in less than 12 seconds.  And it is actually bizarre that after 6 years the experts can’t tell us how many tons of steel and tons of concrete were on each floor.  Didn’t they have to figure that out before they poured the foundation?  We should have had that information in 6 weeks.

psikey

It stood up much, much longer than 12 seconds. However it was designed for impacts by much smaller prop planes, not loaded jets. And its failures are quite well understood, minor disputes are mere quibbling. The failures are perfectly reasonable.

A Voice of Sanity - 27 July 2008 03:29 PM

psikeyhackr - 11 July 2007 11:27 PM

It is curious how a building that stood for 25 years can collapse in less than 12 seconds.  And it is actually bizarre that after 6 years the experts can’t tell us how many tons of steel and tons of concrete were on each floor.  Didn’t they have to figure that out before they poured the foundation?  We should have had that information in 6 weeks.

psikey

It stood up much, much longer than 12 seconds. However it was designed for impacts by much smaller prop planes, not loaded jets. And its failures are quite well understood, minor disputes are mere quibbling. The failures are perfectly reasonable.

It’s like saying that “my two year old stacked some blocks up, and I left them up, but when he was 5 a breeze blew them over, and I don’t understand why. There have been many breezes before!”

The Bay Bridge collapsed in a few minutes during the Loma Prieta earthquake, no conspiracy theory there. No one thinks there is a mystical, mythical reason (except those who believed it signaled the end of the earth!). No one believe in their wildest nightmare that it could ever happen, except perhaps those engineers who kept their nightmare to themselves, but it did.

Releasing catastrophic energy will cause catastrophic results. The energy has to go somewhere! That is why houses are felled and destroyed by tornadoes hurricanes, floods and earthquakes, as well as the occasional bridge. No miracle or mystery there.

I thought the movie was very interesting and revealing except for chapter 1.

I believe there is much more behind religion then just mind control. I agree that it is used to manipulate people, but if you research religion even more you will find out a lot more shocking stuff, and i am not talking about plagiarism, I am talking about the identity of God.

God is not who you think he is, he is not a “divine invisible man in the sky”. He is an actual living and breathing entity.

Icedbullet77 - 19 September 2008 10:40 PM

God is not who you think he is, he is not a “divine invisible man in the sky”. He is an actual living and breathing entity.

Elvis has left the building.

“God is not who you think he is”  -  Like many here, I’m an atheist.  We don’t think God is anything.

“he is not a “divine invisible man in the sky”.”  -  I agree.

“He is an actual living and breathing entity.”  -  That sounds like the basis for an interesting thread of its own.  Just a guess… Do you think he’s an alien?

the PC apeman - 20 September 2008 08:18 AM

“God is not who you think he is”  -  Like many here, I’m an atheist.  We don’t think God is anything.

“he is not a “divine invisible man in the sky”.”  -  I agree.

“He is an actual living and breathing entity.”  -  That sounds like the basis for an interesting thread of its own.  Just a guess… Do you think he’s an alien?

Yes, very much so. Otherwise how could Moses meet him “face to face”, and how could they be “intimate friends”. That is what it is says in the bible of course and there are a whole bunch of other give aways that says God might actually be an alien.

Maybe I should open a new thread for this.

Icedbullet77 - 20 September 2008 08:23 AM

.... Otherwise how could Moses meet him “face to face”, and how could they be “intimate friends”. That is what it is says in the bible of course and there are a whole bunch of other give aways that says God might actually be an alien….

Um, hello! Do you have evidence showing that God and Moses met and were intimate friends?

Maybe I should open a new thread for this.

Yes, in the Fantasy section!