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Those Who Believe 9/11 was an “Inside Job”...
Posted: 13 August 2007 08:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
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I do not agree that the 9/11 Commission has purposeful discrepancies or that any of their conclusions indicate a conspiracy. 

There is not any evidence that the U.S. purposefully committed an act of terrorism on itself.  There are conspiracies and assumptive conclusions, but those are not valid forms of proof.  And if any of these older false flags were to be proven true, it wouldn’t tell us anything.  The U.S. government, like most governments, is a fluid environment with new administrators and politicians constantly being voted in or out of office, and it was purposefully set up with systems of checks and balances that keep the various branches fair and honest under penalty of law.  One can point to wire-tapping and torture as evidence that this president is corrupt, yet these examples only prove that secret conspiracies aren’t possible.  These are classified actions that were illegal under international laws, and an honest person within the cloak of secrecy blew the whistle.  So, if these small actions had their cover blown, why wouldn’t something as evil and sinister as a plot to fly planes into our own populated skyscrapers and defense headquarters be revealed to the public?  If one is to even consider these conspiracies, one must also consider how large the conspiracy must be.  For the government to pull it off, they would have had to involve hundreds of people.  That would make it WAY out of the realm of possibility because any number of those conspirators would have a conscience and blow the whistle.

Some of these conspiracies are just dumb.  For instance, why would the POTUS allow Japan to wipe out our entire pacific fleet?  So that we would have an excuse to enter the war?  Seems like a bad gamble. 

Anything is possible, but just because something is possible doesn’t mean that a conspiracy should be believed because someone put together a web video with bad facts and misleading conclusions.  The “facts” should be examined, and what we find are desperate attempts to place the blame on the government without any evidence.  Just because a person doesn’t understand how a building seems to fall so fast or why there seems to be moltent metal under a collapsed building that was hit by a plane… doesn’t mean that our government commited an act of terrorism fraud.

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Posted: 14 December 2007 10:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
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Here’s what I wrote for a friend who got sucked into the 9/11 conspiracy swamp:

I have put in a lot of time into the 9/11 allegations. A huge amount.

I ask of you to consider two arguments and read just two or three more things:
1) a lucid polemic by Rolling Stone writer Matt Taibbi.
2) a white paper written by Blanchard who runs a company that documents demolitions for a living.

I also invite you to read any chapter of Ryan Mackey’s 200 page rebuttal of David Ray Griffin‘s latest oeuvre (here’s the link: http://911guide.googlepages.com/ryanmackey ). Read any chapter and tell me honestly whether you still trust the judgment and competence of Griffin and the handful of people on whose writings he (and the whole 9/11 conspiracy movement!) relies.

Now for the two simple arguments:

1) So far, no scientifically validated publications for other WTC ‘theories’ exist
My wife, a tenured chemistry prof heard me quote Noam Chomsky’s reasoning that if there were credible evidence to support any of the technical claims of the 911 conspiracy guys it would have surfaced in peer reviewed science & engineering literature by now. She spent a few hours and searched the inclusive data base “web of science” and found nothing. What this says is nothing that holds up to scrutiny has made it through peer review. Given that no one has control over the thousands of science publications worldwide (which includes those in hostile nations) it means the claims have no merit.
By the way, my wife did this database research after being challenged by a local 911 activist in our UU church. When confronted with Tina’s findings she wrote back (yes, I have it in writing) the CIA must have infiltrated the editorial boards of the science journals. A pityful and yet rather typical testament to the level of ‘reasoning’ in the 9/11 community. It should also be noted that they have since created a “Journal of 9/11 Studies” that they claim is peer reviewed but it’s not. So they resort to deception to keep up appearances.

2) The seismic record proves beyond a doubt that explosions did not bring down the WTC buildings
Do you realize that explosions on the scale alleged by the “controlled demolition” folks will effect detectable seismic tremors? I personally asked a seismic geologist and a nuclear physicist who works on proliferation issues whether it would be possible to mask or hide tremors - it is impossible, period. Well, there was seismic monitoring that covered the lower Manhattan area at the time, and these data from independent sources show conclusively that such explosions did not occur. Only reasonable conclusion: explosions did not bring down the three WTC buildings. (Note: the fake 9/11 “Journal” prints something claiming otherwise but the article has been shown to be in error in a very precise, irrefutable way. Yet no retraction, as would have happened in a proper journal).

So now for the reading assignment.

Read Taibbi first. It’s easy to overlook the forest for the trees but Taibbi’s blunt and in parts satirical take prevents us from making that mistake. The entire list of dubious “9/11 facts” becomes irrelevant anomaly hunting if one cannot come clear on the basic rationale, motives, and logistics for the alleged “false flag operation”.
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/1001-24.htm

Then read the whitepaper by Blanchard. It’s written for regular Joes and comes from exactly the kind of person that one should ask to assess such allegations.

http://www.jod911.com/ WTC COLLAPSE STUDY BBlanchard 8-8-06.pdf

A CRITICAL ANALYSIS OF THE COLLAPSE OF WTC 1, 2, & 7
FROM AN EXPLOSIVES AND CONVENTIONAL DEMOLITION INDUSTRY VIEWPOINT
By Brent Blanchard
August 8, 2006
c-2006 HYPERLINK “http://www.implosionworld.com” http://www.implosionworld.com/
—————————————————————————-

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Posted: 15 December 2007 02:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
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Dr. Frank Greening was mentioned 10 times in this:

http://www.jod911.com/drg_nist_review_1_0.pdf

Greening averaged the mass of the WTC to compute the potential energy of the WTC.  Not taking into account that it would be bottom heavy.  Not taking int account the mass of the 6 sub-basements. 

I emailed this to him last June:

http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=31763#31763

No response.

That kinetic energy calculation of the plane saying there was enough energy to sever the vertical columns if the plane didn’t use up energy on floor slabs and other such trivia is nothing but pseudo-intellectual mathematical crap.  The floor slabs were 12 feet apart, the fuselage was 16 feet in diameter.  Computing what is physically impossible is a meaningless exercise.

Now this quote was interesting:

We have already addressed the heat conduction issue – there is no reason to suppose that the heated volume of steel was large. For sake of argument, double the volume of steel contained in the impact floors themselves would total of less than 3,000 tons. As for the time itself, NCSTAR1-6B shows calibrated tests of subscale and full-scale steel WTC floor truss structures exposed to fires, and even with the fireproofing material intact, the steel temperature reaches plateaus of over 800 oC (1500 oF) after approximately 80 minutes, as seen in Figures 6-4 and 6-5. Without fireproofing in place, the time to reach these temperatures would be considerably shorter.

Relevant temperature information directly from the NIST is below:

http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1CollapseofTowers.pdf

pdf page 230

None of the recovered steel samples showed evidence of exposure to temperatures above 600 degrees C for as long as 15 min.

pdf page 231

Only three of the recovered samples of exterior reached temperatures in excess of 250 degrees C during the fires of after the collapse.

pdf page 199

Four standard fire resistance tests of floor assemblies like those in the WTC towers conducted as psrt of this Investigation showed that (a) it took 90 min of sustained heating in the furnace for temperatures to exceed 600 degrees C on steel truss members with either 1/2 in. or 3/4 in. insulation thickness, and (b) in no case was the load-carrying capacity compromised by heating the floor system for 2 hours at furnace temperatures, with applied loads exceeding those on September 11 by a factor of two.

These two sets of info from NIST don’t seem to match to well.  I specify where the data is in the report though.  NIST seems to give summaries that tend to contradict the data in their own report.  And that business of 3000 tons is double the steel on the impact floors, where did that come from.  I keep looking for the steel on every level and keep not finding it?

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Posted: 02 February 2008 08:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
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1) The same rogue network in the government which brought America the Kennedy assassinations (JFK, RFK, JFK Jr.) and the Oklahoma City Bombing and the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. The same criminal network which bombed the USS Maine to provoke the Spanish-American war. The same rogue network which planned Operation NorthWoods.

To name one perpetrator.. Dov Zakheim. This man was the comptroller of the Pentagon (And remember that Rumsfeld announced $2.3 trillion were missing the day before 9/11, and on 9/11, the Pentagon was damaged in an area with important financial information, and many civilian accountants, bookkeepers, and budget analysts were among the casualties.). He was also one of the writers of the PNAC report “Rebuilding America’s Defenses”, which said that a “New Pearl Harbor” event would be needed for a fast, significant change in the US military budget. Zakheim is also the former Senior VP of System Planning Corporation, which ‘aided’ the investigations of the Columbine/Virginia Tech black ops. System Planning Corp. also works on remote control technology for aircraft.

2) The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were part of a plan that goes way back. In 1998, 18 members of PNAC urged Clinton to remove Saddam. 10 of those members, including Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, and Lewis Libby, will have positions in the administration that 9/11 happens during. The war in Afghanistan was scheduled to happen in October. 9/11 came right on time to galvanize support for these pre-planned wars. It also allowed the PATRIOT Act, the Department of Homeland Security, the skyrocketing of the military budget, and a major boost in Bush’s poll ratings. A less known gain is that everyone forgot about the missing $2.3 trillion that Rumsfeld announced the day before 9/11.

==========

The only events you listed that I’m sure are inside jobs are:

*1993 bombing of the WTC (There are recorded phone calls where FBI informant Emad Salem and FBI agent John Anticev discuss how the FBI built the bomb).

*The OKC Bombing (There is local news footage that discusses unexploded bombs being carried out of the building. How would McVeigh wire bombs into a high security federal building? McVeigh’s doctor was connected to mind control experiments. Patients of that doctor who were Ex-Military are perfect patsies. General Benton K. Partin did an analysis and proved conclusively that the building was blown using demolition charges, thus the bombing had to have been an inside job.)

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Posted: 08 February 2008 08:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
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There were no plane crashes on 9/11. AGM-86 missiles were used to attack the WTC towers, the Pentagon, and Shanksville. The videos of the second hit broadcast on Live TV were fake, as was the so-called amateur footage. The Towers were taken down by highly advanced DE Weaponry. The command center for using the weaponry was on a floor in Building 7, which was scheduled to be imploded afterwards to dispose of the evidence. The passengers were flown to Cleveland Airport, which was already being evacuated (and prepared) on United Airlines Flight 93 by remote control (Some of the people aboard the plane were agents that would take over the plane if the technology broke down). The non-involved passengers (Selected because they knew too much) were then executed and their remains were sent to the Armed Forces DNA Identification Laboratory in Dover Air Force Base. Since they controlled this laboratory, any signs of death that were inconsistent with the official cause (Gunshot wounds, explosive residue, traces of poison) would be ignored.

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Posted: 09 February 2008 08:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
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Lord Carpainter - 08 February 2008 08:48 PM

There were no plane crashes on 9/11. AGM-86 missiles were used to attack the WTC towers, the Pentagon, and Shanksville…

I am inclined to believe that the inside job was actually an inside job. You know, an inside inside job. You might think they were AGM-86 missiles, but they were most likely alien laser beams shot from a UFO located inside the Building 7. (That is, of course, if the UFO inside the Building 7 was real…)

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Posted: 09 February 2008 10:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
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It’s all a prelude to the second coming of Elvis.

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Posted: 09 February 2008 02:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
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dougsmith - 09 February 2008 10:14 AM

It’s all a prelude to the second coming of Elvis.

Second?. I think you miss a lot of elvis’s comings.

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Posted: 09 February 2008 09:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 69 ]
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Sorry, but sarcastic remarks do not make up for not knowing what you’re talking about.

Top Pentagon officials were warned and cancelled flights on September 10th

NEWSWEEK has learned that the state of alert had been high during the past two weeks, and a particularly urgent warning may have been received the night before the attacks, causing some top Pentagon brass to cancel a trip. [“Bush: We’re At War”, NEWSWEEK]

An archive of information: http://www.prisonplanet.com/911.html

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Posted: 04 March 2008 04:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 70 ]
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I’m just gonna give some basic logical answers to this conspiracy theory since I too had the thought pass through my mind…just a what if kinda thought..and now this whole big threads outta whack, imo.

  I woke on 9/11 and had cnn turned on minutes after the 1st jet hit and watched it in a stunned state like anybody else who watched it unfold. 9-11-01 approx 9:00am to 11:00am then just turned it all off and waited for answers to the tragedy in the following weeeks and now years.

Facts: mostly saudi’s and a few other mid-easterner hijackers.  Home country of the leader of AL-Quiada, bin laden, who was exiled from SA for extremist issues there and he moved-expanded al-quida to pakistan-afghan border areas for remote training camps in the early 90’s.  No coincidence that his exiled saudi circle helped him.

Bladin sends weasles for US flight training and we dont check these guys out and drop the ball in spite of trainers suspisions.

Our Gov is a beuracratic mess….no interagency communication due to turf politics…huge problem..still is most likely.
Result -poor intel, exec. branch warned by outgoing pres. memo which rice bush admin ignored to our peril.

WTC towers collapse:  pure structural physics called pancake-ing chain reaction due to main supports that gave way due to intense heat and damage from a huge high speed impact.  End of discussion on pre-planned WTC tower collapse.


All the events that the OP listed in 1st post:  The US has maipulated and humiliated that region of the world for a long time.  In the 80’s we support Saddam due to russians next door in iran and we dont want them to win war.  Russians lose war.  We abandon saddam and Iraq, we got what we wanted. Good way to treat an ex partner. Not like we havent partnered with ugly regimes for 200 yrs. for our benefit.  2 faced back stabbbing foreign relations. Yes our free society is admired and jealously hated for it’s so called immorality, yet we are admired worldwide by up and coming nations for our successes but our leaders have been very bad at policy, hence we are resented more so.

So we have been sucker punched in the face for our treatment of that part of world. oh, big surprise, arrogant “superpower” nation that acts like we do diplomatically for decades gets it back.  It’s been almost 7 rs, let’s just learn from it (and not forget the loss) and change….but now things are worse because the worst way to handle the whole region’s issues is to not have an authoratarian bush type administration, but that’s what we (the voters) wanted..a firm strong guy arises to respond.  Instead he see’s it’s the dream opportunity for the right to manip us(the voters) with lies..WMD, makes one of our best generals look like a fool at the UN-Powell, Cheney-Libby-Plame spy outing mess as retribution, on and on.

Oh he responded with Cheney as puppet master and now we have this over-powered unconstitutional exec. gov branch..coupled with a second branch..judicial that’s just as out of balance.  Patriot act, Homeland security, loss of civil liberties due to fear tactics, etc makes its own rules…1000+ signing orders on bills that dont apply to the exec in chief.

Bottom line:  Lies and more lies then comes conspiracy theories.

What’s unpatriotic is to keep voting for this kind of leadership, imo.  Time for BIG change and a different attitude towards our allies and other sovereign countries and I think B.O. can do the job, if he has 3 times more security as the current president due to our own home grown extremists.

Hoping for better days ahead.

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Posted: 04 March 2008 08:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 71 ]
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dougsmith - 09 February 2008 10:14 AM

It’s all a prelude to the second coming of Elvis.

ROFL!  Good one, Doug.  Which song does he use during his second coming?

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Posted: 04 March 2008 08:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 72 ]
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Mriana - 04 March 2008 08:25 AM

Which song does he use during his second coming?

Guess we’ll find out!

LOL

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Posted: 20 March 2008 03:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 73 ]
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WTC towers collapse:  pure structural physics called pancake-ing chain reaction due to main supports that gave way due to intense heat and damage from a huge high speed impact.  End of discussion on pre-planned WTC tower collapse.

The pancake theory is impossible because of the strength of the floors. Also, the debris left behind was not that of a pancake collapse. Also, if there was intense heat, why were numerous people standing inside the holes, where the heat should have been the worst?

woman_wtc.jpg

That woman, allegedly Edna Cintron, waves from inside the plane shape hole. She is living proof that there was no extreme heat hot enough to weaken the supports and that there was no plane hit. Don’t believe fake videos that show planes skip across the screen, pierce through buildings like a knife through butter, flickering wings, self-healing holes, contradictory trajectories, colored skies.. etc.

Watch 911 Octopus on Google Videos. The government, the debunkers, and the truth movement all have their strings by the same people.

shanks-aerial-wtae.png

Tom Ridge sees the crater, with no visible burnt trees behind it on 9/11.

shanks-aerial-usinfo2.png

On 9/12, the forest is heavily burnt. These fires could have only been started after 9/11. I put it to readers that these fires were the work of the black-ops teams that carried out 9/11, to lend credence to the ridiculous idea that a commercial airplane slammed into that empty hole on 9/11.

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Posted: 02 October 2011 03:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 74 ]
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Alrightie than, why am I feeling this urge to stir the pot   cool smirk

Lord Carpainter - 20 March 2008 03:31 PM

WTC towers collapse:  pure structural physics called pancake-ing chain reaction due to main supports that gave way due to intense heat and damage from a huge high speed impact.  End of discussion on pre-planned WTC tower collapse.

The pancake theory is impossible because of the strength of the floors. Also, the debris left behind was not that of a pancake collapse. Also, if there was intense heat, why were numerous people standing inside the holes, where the heat should have been the worst?

woman_wtc.jpg

Watch 911 Octopus on Google Videos. The government, the debunkers, and the truth movement all have their strings by the same people.

shanks-aerial-wtae.png

Tom Ridge sees the crater, with no visible burnt trees behind it on 9/11.

shanks-aerial-usinfo2.png

On 9/12, the forest is heavily burnt. These fires could have only been started after 9/11. I put it to readers that these fires were the work of the black-ops teams that carried out 9/11, to lend credence to the ridiculous idea that a commercial airplane slammed into that empty hole on 9/11.

hmmm,
Actually, considering the low angle of the top image, there is a dark patch, that does correspond to the bottom image.
not to mention the many other incongruities in above special ops theory
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

What I keep wondering about is why no one seems interested in The Real 9/11 Conspiracy ?
Pre-9/11
Why were our Supreme Court appointed oil President and VP so freakin unconcerned. . . 
almost as though they were waiting for something to happen,

I’ll bet in their addled greed driven pea brains they never ever could have imagined what the Bin Laden punks were capable of…
the b@$#@rd$ were too busy dreaming up profits and expansion of economic potential to consider the real world happenings
(a typical if very bad habit among the oil masters),

They already had their minds fixated on tearing up Iraq like starving villagers around a beached whale. . .
but nooo instead we obsess over distractions, while ignoring the real show.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2928360/10_warnings_about_911_attacks_that.html
“I don’t think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center.” Condoleezza Rice.

“No warnings.” Ari Fleischer, Pres. Bush’s 9/11 press secretary after being asked by a reporter “Had there been any warnings that the President knew of?”

“We did not have a terrorist attack on our country during President Bush’s term.” Dana Perino, Pres. Bush’s press secretary.

“We had no domestic attacks under Bush; we’ve had one under Obama.” Rudy Giuliani

“We inherited the most tragic attack on our own soil in our nation’s history.” Mary Matalin.

Well, at least there is some truth in Mary Matalin’s revision of history. While Pres. Bush did not inherit the 9/11 attacks, he did inherent plenty of security intelligence that pointed not just to an attack by Al Qaeda, but that they would hijack airplanes to fly into the Pentagon and World Trade Center.

Richard Clarke: ‘Government Failed You’ on Security
by Dave Davies, WHYY Fresh Air

May 29, 2008

Counterterrorism expert Richard Clarke worked for the government for 30 years under several presidents, including Ronald Reagan, both George Bushes and Bill Clinton. And in a new book, he’s charging that the nation is unacceptably vulnerable to cyber-terrorism — a result of what he says is a culture of mediocrity in U.S. national-security programs.

Under George W. Bush, Clarke served as Special Adviser to the President for Cyberspace Security. During the 9/11 Commission hearings, Clarke offered apologies to the families of those killed in the terrorist attacks in New York City, Washington, D.C., and Pennsylvania, stating that both he and the government failed the country.

[ Edited: 02 October 2011 03:25 PM by citizenschallenge.pm ]
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Posted: 02 October 2011 04:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 75 ]
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shanks-aerial-wtae.png

I’m into my woo mediations and struck again by the relativity of time and place.

That picture shows a pit in a field that could have been plowed away in a season,
had that plane reached it’s destination how different that scene would have been.

I’m skeptical, or rather cynical, of what I’m told and figure there is a good deal that is being kept from the public eye.
Still, seems to me I need to agree that those folks, on that plane, engaged in one of the most heroic acts of American history.

I agree their contribution prevented incalculable losses, not only in life and property, but in preventing an even worse perversion of American Principles than we have experienced this past decade.

A humanist blessing upon them    downer

[ Edited: 02 October 2011 04:10 PM by citizenschallenge.pm ]
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